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#31
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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#32
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. What, Jeff? No vacuum pumps? Put an inch or so of lube into pressure cooker, add chain, close lid and then apply vacuum to extract all the air from the interstices in the chain. When you release the vacuum, the lube gets “pumped” into all the nooks and crannies. PS: I don’t personally do this... |
#33
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 04:46:28 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: AK wrote: I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam, where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic cleaner. "homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution" http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786 1) plain old white vinegar 2) salt 3) baking soda 4) lemonshine 5) citric acid 6) lemon juice 7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe. I understand the concept, but I cant imagine the collapsing bubbles imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action. The cavitation produced by the collapsing bubbles is capable of pitting soft metals. However, there are no soft metals on a bicycle chain, so I guess it's safe. Ultrasonic Cleaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid. The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks, and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto solid surfaces. Seems (to me) similar to the bubbling action of vinegar and baking soda. However, there's one important difference. The ultrasonic cleaner delivers quite a bit of energy to force the soap solution to produce bubbles, while the vinegar and soda mix has much less chemical energy. At some point during the chemical reaction, the vinegar and soda mix might approach the energy level of the ultrasonic cleaner, but for very long. The bubbles from an ultrasonic cleaner are basically full of vacuum, so they collapse with some vigour and slam the working fluid into whatever is being cleaned. The bubbles in your basic Grade 3 science fair volcano are full of very low pressure CO2 (the pressure is limited by the surface tension of the soap solution), so there’s an order of magnitude less energy released when they pop. Maybe the expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at that dilution ratio, and considering that youre supposed to mix it together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and boiling water. I currently don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. However, I do have a two stage vacuum pump and chamber (modified pressure cooker). I use it mostly for getting the bubbles out of resin molds and epoxy potting compound. However, when the chamber is filled with water, I can make it cold boil by simply reducing the atmospheric pressure. I have no idea what will happen, but a little soap in the water might be a good way to clean things without the risk of melting something from hot water at atmospheric pressure. (Yet another project). |
#34
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 03/09/2019 10:41 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. How do you guys find any time to ride your bike? |
#35
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 15:14:16 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: What, Jeff? No vacuum pumps? I have an Edwards 2 stage pump that needs new seals, filters, and oil. I really don't want to risk it on chain lube experiments. Put an inch or so of lube into pressure cooker, add chain, close lid and then apply vacuum to extract all the air from the interstices in the chain. When you release the vacuum, the lube gets pumped into all the nooks and crannies. Yep, that's the theory. I tried immersing the chain in hot light oil and pressurizing the tank to about 180 psi. This forced the oil into the pin and bushing joint. I assumed that when the pressure is relieved, any trapped air would push the oil back out of the joint. However, the pin and bushing are not a great air seal, and most of the oil stayed inside the chain. I looked for bubbles but didn't see any. PS: I dont personally do this... Well, it's not as much fun as a vinegar and baking soda volcano, but does have its moments. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#36
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2019 4:05 PM, AK wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You must never have used IPA on grease. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I thought that IPA was "India Pale Ale". |
#37
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 9/3/2019 10:36 AM, Duane wrote:
On 03/09/2019 10:41 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. How do you guys find any time to ride your bike? +1 I read here (by whom?) the term 'recreational chain cleaning'. Apt description. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#38
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 9/2/2019 12:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? Solvents to remove solvents? Is that a thing? If he chooses to use alcohol, what should he use to remove that? Is it solvent infinite regress? And then there is Plan B: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6mzE5lQ0w He has an accent. Believe him. -- Jay Beattie. Solvents for solvents: When I was an undergrad intern at an electronics research facility, we (I) had to ultra-clean items for use in vacuum. Leave bits of oil on them, and they "out-gas," degrading the vacuum, or so I was told. IIRC, the sequence was: 1) ?Alkanox? Alkaline cleaner - seemed like Comet -- & water, ultrasonic for xx minutes. Then 2) Chlorinated solvent (TCE??), ultrasonic for xx minutes. Then 3) Acetone, ultrasonic, then 4) Methanol, ultrasonic. All under the vent hood, of course. Drop something in between steps, you start all over. So yes, solvents for solvents, but you probably don't need to ultra-clean your chain, and I suspect you'd never succeed anyway. My current chain-cleaning ritual: 1) Soak in (fairly dirty) mineral spirits overnight, in capped 2 liter soda bottle. This thins the grease/muck. 2) Put chain in the heated ultrasonic cleaner (I splurged last year) with a pretty concentrated mix of Simple Green and water, for something like 10 minutes. This seems to get out the grit; I don't have the nerve to put flammable solvents in the heated cheapo ultrasonic. 3) Rinse with fresh warm water in another 2 liter bottle, shake vigorously. Maybe change water and rinse again. 4) Blow dry with jet from compressor (this year's splurge), then hang to dry overnight. Elapsed time is pretty long, but actual work time is under 10 minutes, perhaps under 5. If I need to add an obsessive step, it would be to rinse with clear water in the ultrasonic, but draining/refilling the ultrasonic would take actual time. Got a gravel bike last spring that I --gasp-- ride on gravel, and the chain gets pretty dirty pretty fast, so I need to clean more often than I did in my pure-roadie days. Mark J. |
#39
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
I like to use naptha for all parts cleaning. Don't get too much of it on your skin for too long, and don't breathe the fumes too much. Use gloves.
The best buy in naptha is the 5-gallon container of "PSC 1000" from Crown Chemicals, available at Tractor Supply for $44.00: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-cleaner-5-gal |
#40
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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 6:25:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I like to use naptha for all parts cleaning. Don't get too much of it on your skin for too long, and don't breathe the fumes too much. Use gloves. The best buy in naptha is the 5-gallon container of "PSC 1000" from Crown Chemicals, available at Tractor Supply for $44.00: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-cleaner-5-gal Thanks. It's interesting that it is used in Coleman lanterns etc. Andy |
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