Presta valve in a rim that was drilled for Schrader?

On 9/10/2019 12:51 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-09 17:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/9/2019 7:44 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-09 15:16, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/9/2019 1:33 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-09 08:15, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Chalo, 2019-09-09 08:21+0200:
I can't imagine what your objection could be, given that Presta
valves are inferior in every single possible way to Schraeder
valves, except for their diameter.Â* Count your blessings and use a
better, less fault-prone tube.

I cannot agree with that. The small diameter of Presta valves is one
significant advantage, ...


Yes, less compromise in the integrity and sturdiness of the rim.

Does anyone have an incident where a valve hole caused a failure in a
rim?

A bike rim is in compression. Other stresses are small, unless one hits
a heck of a bump.


Which one occasionally does after passing a sign "Pavement Ends" or
when it's California roads which often look worse than Romanian roads.
Potholes galore.

So on those surfaces, how many rims have you seen that failed because of
the valve hole?


What's the point? You wouldn't believe it anyhow.

True. You have a long history of making up macho "Danger! Danger!" stories.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/10/2019 10:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 19:35:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Yep. The un-capped Schrader valves were just fine until I tried to
put some more air into them. It was then that they started leaking. I
would guess that the air pushed the mud or dirt into the valve area,
which then stuck partly open. However, I didn't do an autopsy on the
valve core to be sure. Also, I may have installed the wrong type of
Schrader valve core. I had a fairly well mixed assortment at the
time[1] and didn't realize that they had different opening pressures:
https://www.schrader-pacific.com/media/pdf/Valve%20Core%20Brochure.pdf

Perhaps bicycles are more delicate as I do, on occasion, add air to my
pickup wheels.... with no problems at all :-)

I'm just guessing, but I can envision a truck or car tire being filled
at a gas station, and blowing all accumulated debris into the tube, well
past the Schrader valve; whereas a bike tire pumped by hand might get
the debris lodged in the valve instead.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 23:18:15 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/10/2019 10:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 19:35:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Yep. The un-capped Schrader valves were just fine until I tried to
put some more air into them. It was then that they started leaking. I
would guess that the air pushed the mud or dirt into the valve area,
which then stuck partly open. However, I didn't do an autopsy on the
valve core to be sure. Also, I may have installed the wrong type of
Schrader valve core. I had a fairly well mixed assortment at the
time[1] and didn't realize that they had different opening pressures:
https://www.schrader-pacific.com/media/pdf/Valve%20Core%20Brochure.pdf

Perhaps bicycles are more delicate as I do, on occasion, add air to my
pickup wheels.... with no problems at all :-)

I'm just guessing, but I can envision a truck or car tire being filled
at a gas station, and blowing all accumulated debris into the tube, well
past the Schrader valve; whereas a bike tire pumped by hand might get
the debris lodged in the valve instead.

As I said :-) bicycles are more delicate :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On 10/09/2019 17:34, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 07:20:33 +0200, Tosspot
wrote:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/m5vqB.jpg

Does anyone know where to order some, I just can't find them! They
are my preferred adapter, and come with, I think, Schwalbe tubes.

Search for "Panaracer Valve Nut"
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Panaracer+Valve+Nut Prices
seem to vary from $1/ea to $7/ea. This one seems the cheapest:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283609172914

Oooh you Star! That is a lot cheaper than I was finding. I mean, I was
thinking of getting into the business myself as there appears to be a
2,000% markup on the damn things.

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 4:19:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-10 15:28, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 9:52:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-09 17:18, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 16:42:12 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-09-09 15:36, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 07:24:22 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-09-08 23:21, Chalo wrote:
Joerg wrote:

Just received a new rear wheel. Despite being 700c and
for narrow tires the rim is drilled for a Schrader
valve. Couldn't believe it. Harumph, grumble. Why on
earth ... well, it is what it is.

I can't imagine what your objection could be, given that
Presta valves are inferior in every single possible way
to Schraeder valves, except for their diameter. Count
your blessings and use a better, less fault-prone tube.

It confounds me to come up with a rational explanation
for why the recent crop of big wide rims (including
fatbike rims) are mostly drilled for Presta valves.


It's most likely because of standardization. Many small
portable pumps cannot or can only with difficulty be
converted to Schrader.

Doesn't matter to me because I never had a valve failure
with either Schrader or Presta. Rummaging around and
cleaning the garage in a few spare minutes yesterday I
would a mushroom-shaped furniture panel connector made from
hollow aluminum. Should be easy to make a nice adapter plug
from that and rivet it into the hole. I just have to find
a suitable glue to hold it in place. The E6000 I ordered
for another purpose (shoe repair) is still more than a week
off.

Other than holding the adapter in place when changing a tire
there is no need to glue it in place as the valve stem will
hold it in place quite satisfactorily.


That's the main reason, not losing it when changing a tire.
It's so easy to forget about that little thing and then I may
have to make a new one.

I might be able to widen the outside a bit with a punch which
would also hold it in place. Sort of a poor man's riveting
job.

That is more or less what I did. I swedged a flare on one end of
a short piece of aluminum tubing stuck it in the hole and flared
the outer end just a bit.

Given the comparative amounts of time that the tire is inflated
and being changed it seems like overkill now :-)


It probably is. I never get flats since switching to thick
thorn-resistant tubes but I do have to swap rear tires once or
twice a year. Bicycle tires just don't last.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Last Saturday we went on an easy ride over to Palo Alto. Rather than
go to a place I liked over there they went to a place where you had
to wait in line for a seat and of course mine was in front of the
cooler so I had to keep getting up to allow access.

Anyway, on the way back the leader had three flats on thorn-proof
tubes. The last one he was out of tubes and he had one tube with a
real slow leak and he rode that to BART and pumped it up at the exit
and then rode it home from there.


That is highly unusual. Did you find out what dunnit? A serious nail
would still go through, that would even flatten a car tire.


He had been telling us that thorn-proof tubes never get flats. ...


I haven't, in years. Funny thing is, I never used any of the patch kits
I bought from you on my bikes but I did use them a lot on other rider's
bikes.


... When
tried on tubeless tires Slime gets really poor ratings so I would
expect that putting Finish Line in them yourself would be a better
choice.

With my tubeless tires I never worry about flats on anything that
doesn't destroy the tire. But this being California I have already
done exactly that.


I remember a couple on the El Dorado Trail. They had tubeless with slime
in there. We were all petting some horses when we noticed a hiss. Goat's
head thorns had gone through and despite spinning the slime oozing
wouldn't stop. It just gurgled out of there.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 4:19:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-10 15:28, Tom Kunich wrote:

Last Saturday we went on an easy ride over to Palo Alto. Rather than
go to a place I liked over there they went to a place where you had
to wait in line for a seat and of course mine was in front of the
cooler so I had to keep getting up to allow access.

Anyway, on the way back the leader had three flats on thorn-proof
tubes. The last one he was out of tubes and he had one tube with a
real slow leak and he rode that to BART and pumped it up at the exit
and then rode it home from there.


That is highly unusual. Did you find out what dunnit? A serious nail
would still go through, that would even flatten a car tire.

I looked at the tire and couldn't find any place that any puncture happened and there were no signs of slime anywhere.


He had been telling us that thorn-proof tubes never get flats. ...

I haven't, in years. Funny thing is, I never used any of the patch kits
I bought from you on my bikes but I did use them a lot on other rider's
bikes.

On his other bike he is running sew-ups that he has injected with Slime and says he hasn't gotten a flat on those either.

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:15:43 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:18:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:34:17 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 07:20:33 +0200, Tosspot
wrote:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/m5vqB.jpg

Does anyone know where to order some, I just can't find them! They are
my preferred adapter, and come with, I think, Schwalbe tubes.

Search for "Panaracer Valve Nut"
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Panaracer+Valve+Nut
Prices seem to vary from $1/ea to $7/ea.
This one seems the cheapest:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283609172914

You would expect those to go for a dollar a dozen and not $10 apiece.

The lowest price is 10 for $10.

I agree that the prices should be lower, but price would also depend
on how you plan to use them:
https://www.etsy.com/hk-en/listing/260654137/upcycled-bike-chain-charm-necklace
https://www.etsy.com/hk-en/listing/682770659/womens-cycling-gifts-bicycle-jewelry-for

Incidentally, these adapter nuts don't appear on the Panaracer web
pile:
https://www.panaracer.com/lineup/tube_accessory.html
which makes me suspect that they may be old stock, counterfeit copies
of a discontinued product, or someone just "borrowed" the Panaracer
name.

Presta Valve Nuts by Jobst Brandt
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/presta-nuts.html

Years ago, I converted most of my wheels to Presta on the assumption
that they were somehow superior. I wanted to stock one type of spare
tube for every size I use, not two. However, after reading Chalo's
denunciation of Presta valves, I suspect this may have been a mistake.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Well, I tend to believe Andrew but my personal experience is that if you pick up a slow leak, the tire will revolve and tear the tube around the Presta valve. Then the tube is non-repairable.

On 9/11/2019 2:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:15:43 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:18:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:34:17 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 07:20:33 +0200, Tosspot
wrote:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/m5vqB.jpg

Does anyone know where to order some, I just can't find them! They are
my preferred adapter, and come with, I think, Schwalbe tubes.

Search for "Panaracer Valve Nut"
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Panaracer+Valve+Nut
Prices seem to vary from $1/ea to $7/ea.
This one seems the cheapest:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283609172914

You would expect those to go for a dollar a dozen and not $10 apiece.

The lowest price is 10 for $10.

I agree that the prices should be lower, but price would also depend
on how you plan to use them:
https://www.etsy.com/hk-en/listing/260654137/upcycled-bike-chain-charm-necklace
https://www.etsy.com/hk-en/listing/682770659/womens-cycling-gifts-bicycle-jewelry-for

Incidentally, these adapter nuts don't appear on the Panaracer web
pile:
https://www.panaracer.com/lineup/tube_accessory.html
which makes me suspect that they may be old stock, counterfeit copies
of a discontinued product, or someone just "borrowed" the Panaracer
name.

Presta Valve Nuts by Jobst Brandt
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/presta-nuts.html

Years ago, I converted most of my wheels to Presta on the assumption
that they were somehow superior. I wanted to stock one type of spare
tube for every size I use, not two. However, after reading Chalo's
denunciation of Presta valves, I suspect this may have been a mistake.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Well, I tend to believe Andrew but my personal experience is that if you pick up a slow leak, the tire will revolve and tear the tube around the Presta valve. Then the tube is non-repairable.


Riding at low pressures shreds valves right out of the tube
as the tire creeps along the rim. This is well known and not
caused by a 7mm valve in a 9mm hole.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2019-09-11 12:22, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 4:19:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-10 15:28, Tom Kunich wrote:

Last Saturday we went on an easy ride over to Palo Alto. Rather
than go to a place I liked over there they went to a place where
you had to wait in line for a seat and of course mine was in
front of the cooler so I had to keep getting up to allow access.

Anyway, on the way back the leader had three flats on
thorn-proof tubes. The last one he was out of tubes and he had
one tube with a real slow leak and he rode that to BART and
pumped it up at the exit and then rode it home from there.


That is highly unusual. Did you find out what dunnit? A serious
nail would still go through, that would even flatten a car tire.

I looked at the tire and couldn't find any place that any puncture
happened and there were no signs of slime anywhere.


Thorn-resistant tubes generally do not contan slime unless the cyclist
put it in himself. Somehow this sounds like a manufacturing defect.


He had been telling us that thorn-proof tubes never get flats.
...

I haven't, in years. Funny thing is, I never used any of the patch
kits I bought from you on my bikes but I did use them a lot on
other rider's bikes.

On his other bike he is running sew-ups that he has injected with
Slime and says he hasn't gotten a flat on those either.


Sew-ups with slime? I can't even imagine how messy that must be when
swapping tires. Yuck!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 16:06:04 UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-09-11 12:22, Tom Kunich wrote:
Snipped
On his other bike he is running sew-ups that he has injected with
Slime and says he hasn't gotten a flat on those either.


Sew-ups with slime? I can't even imagine how messy that must be when
swapping tires. Yuck!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

And why would it be messy to have slime in a sew-up aka tubular tire when changing tires? The slime is completely inside the tube which is inside an enclosed tire casing.

Cheers