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The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails



 
 
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  #111  
Old March 1st 14, 09:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
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Posts: 531
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

These two bozos richly deserved one another. This is the world of risk that
Blackblade would willing undertake, all in the name of fun and games. The
"thrill" would have been worth it according to him. Well, if you want to have
this kind of fun, then this is how you pay for it. I don't think hikers would
ever have suffered an accident like this one no matter how hard they tried. Of
course, given cyclists on hiking trails, anything is possible.


I was very clear that you are entitled to risk only your own neck ... not others. Stop willfully misrepresenting what I said.


You have already told me that you engage in high risk sports. I have already told you how stupid I think that is.

The trail bike rider was breaking the law, clearly not riding within the 'be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear' guideline and therefore wholly at fault. If a mountainbiker rode into a hiker in similar circumstances I would happily condemn that too ...


The fact is that mountain bikers are constantly breaking the law. Why? Because it is no fun to ride sedately on a trail. They are into taking risks just like you are. That is why I call them and you merchants of death. Your “freedom of choice” ethos is a dagger planted squarely at the heart of unsuspecting victims. To advocate mountain biking for kids and women is especially reprehensible.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injury themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain bikers!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


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  #112  
Old March 1st 14, 09:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
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Posts: 531
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

I don't know about you, but I would rather hear from an expert in the field
than from bozo mountain bikers who are mostly jerk-offs and ****-ups with their
brains in their groin.


Despite what appears to be the ever increasing
diversity of WIIFM supporters that includes some
members of the more radical recreational groups
of four-wheel drivers, motorcycle riders,
prospectors, hunters and fishermen, they often
seem to be using very similar words.


You've heard from him ... he's concerned about four-wheel drivers, motorcycle riders, prospectors, hunters and fishermen. I don't see mountainbikers in that list ... probably because they have about the same impact as hikers.


I believe he is indeed including cyclists elsewhere in his report. We do not want wheeled vehicles of any sort on hiking trails.

If an area needs to be off limits then so be it ... but that includes hiking too as it is also a recreation and similarly impacting !


The impacts are quite dissimilar if you consider what people are doing on the trails in the first place. All areas walked by hikers need to be off limits to wheeled vehicles. The fact that both mountain biking and hiking are recreations has nothing to do with how to post trails.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injury themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain bikers!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


  #113  
Old March 1st 14, 09:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
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Posts: 531
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

I have already conceded that they are both recreations (not
sure how "valid" mountain biking is though), but they have to be managed
differently. Hiking is clearly a superior recreation compared to mountain
biking, but even if it weren't, it would still have to be managed
differently.


Hiking is NOT "clearly a superior recreation". That's a value judgement that many (possibly most) would not share.


All recreations have to be managed sensibly ... but that means pragmatic solutions to individual circumstances ... not messianic proclamations !


If recreations are sufficiently different from one another, there is absolutely no way to combine them. Each recreation needs it own trails. That is the “pragmatic solution” which is apparent to all but the blind, deaf and dumb mountain bikers.

YOU posted the video links Ed ! Are you mentally impaired

? Why do you keep posting evidence that refutes your own positions ?

If you really want to see how mountain bikers behave on
trails, go to YouTube where you can see tons and tons of videos showing bikers
****ing up the trails. Trust me on this, you would not want to be on any hiking
trails used by mountain bikers.


Ed, YOU posted these links. Are they not representative of reality now ? If so, why did you post them ?


The thousands of videos that you will see on YouTube are representative. I no long bother looking at them they are so g.d. idiotic.

I think you'll find that, provided you can stop within the

distance that you can see to be clear, that there is no issue whatsoever with
disparate speeds. Why do you care what speed I'm doing elsewhere as long
as I pass you carefully and slowly and don't put you at risk ?

Trails wend and wind and sightlines are sometimes practically
nil.


What bit of "stop within the distance you can see to be clear" was unclear Ed ? If the sightline is practically nil then the speed needs to be that much slower. If it's a long way ahead then speed can be much higher. Simple.


Nothing is ever simple when you have testosterone prone mountain bikers hogging the trails.

A biker can be on you before he even sees you. The truth of the matter is
that bikers do not like to brake under any circumstances. You need to answer the question of why motorcycles and bikes should not
share the same trails. After all, they both not only have wheels, but have
brakes too!


Oh do stop going in circles ... it's very tiresome. I've addressed this issue ad nauseum. If power, speed, weight, noise and environmental damage differences between powered trail bikes and mountain bikes are not obvious to you then you need glasses and a hearing aid.


If power, speed, weight, noise and environmental damage differences between mountain bikes and people walking are not obvious to you then you need glasses and a hearing aid. The only tiresome bore here is you.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injury themselves, I rejoice! If and when the manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain bikers!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


  #114  
Old March 1st 14, 09:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
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Posts: 531
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

You've not shown that. YOU reject it but you're hardly

objective, or that civilised given your penchant for profanity.


Edward Dolan wrote:

What constitutes a superior ethos? Just one thing. The
judgment of your superiors.


Well, I think I am superior to you ...


No, I mean OUR superiors ... outside of ourselves – or maybe you think they don’t exist? That is how all art is evaluated too. What you and I like or don’t like is not that important in the grand scheme of things. We have to defer to OUR superiors because their judgment and wisdom is superior to ours. There is a vast literature of wilderness treatises and tomes written by experts whose knowledge and wisdom dwarfs our poor efforts.
[...]

When choices conflict, and the merits of the activities are

similar, then what is needed is compromise. Something I suggest you
consider.

I have compromised, by allowing cyclists to have their own
trails separate from hiking trails, something Mr. Vandeman would never
permit.


It's not your decision to make Ed ... you don't own the resource.


It doesn't matter who owns the resource. It has to be managed according to best practices for the greatest benefit of us and future generations.

How ? That's a ludicrous statement. I don't want to go base
jumping but I am fully supportive of others' rights to do so if they wish.
I'm not promoting an activity, I'm promoting freedom of choice.

"It amounts to the same thing. I want others to do what I do because it is
safe and fun. It will not injure or kill them." - Ed Dolan


You are clearly missing the point ... suggest you go back, re-read and think some more. Permitting others to make a free choice does not equate to promotion.


It most certainly does promote it if you know something is dangerous and yet allow it. Regulation is at the heart of all governance.

I was almost tempted to let this slide as it's so

ridiculous. When you tackle someone on the American Football or Rugby
fields you are doing what you are supposed to do. It does sometimes result
in injury. You are NOT intending to fall off a mountain bike. That
just happens sometimes.

However, the statistics don't lie ... there are way more serious

injuries from American Football and Rugby (and many other sports) than mountain
biking.

Statistics lie all the time because they never precisely
measure what they purport to measure. Reports from the field are what matter and
they prove that cycling on hiking trails is extremely dangerous. This is glossed
over by the mountain biking community so that even kids, women and the elderly
are encouraged to go mountain biking. The only ludicrous one here is
you.


Well, all the "reports from the field" that your pal Vandeman can come up with equate to a death rate of 0.00123 per million miles travelled ... making mountainbiking a pretty safe endeavour. Even the reports from your supporters don't support your proposition.


The reports are numerous enough and broadly-based enough to absolutely support the proposition that mountain biking on hiking trails is extremely dangerous. No one, not even you, know how to read numbers presented as a statistic.

However, you are quite right to compare mountain biking to
rough contact sports. Hiking on the other hand has never been considered any
kind of sport as far as I know. It is simply an actively, good for body and
soul.


Sport is good for body and soul ... I suggest you try it. Not everyone wants to amble slowly ... perhaps you have forgotten what it is to be young ?


Enjoy any sport you want. Just don’t do it on a hiking trail.

Separate trails for cyclists are the ONLY solution. I do not
want cyclists on my trails anymore than you want motorcyclists on your trails.
Sparsity of use has nothing to do with it. Hikers and cyclists are DOING
different things on the trails and in fact are there for DIFFERENT purposes.
Therefore, different trails are called for.


They are not yours !!!! Nor mine for that matter. Cyclists and hikers are participating in a recreational activity. There is only so much resource to go around. Therefore, they are going to have to SHARE sometimes ! Not all the time, but sometimes.


There is plenty of resource to go around. Bikers are Johnnies come lately to trails. It is up to them to get their own trails. Moreover their trails do not need to be in pristine wilderness areas. Hell Bells, that is way too good for their ilk. I have previously suggested that abandoned city dumps would be a good area for them to exploit. Another idea would be for ski resorts to develop trails for them which is already happening in a few areas.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injury themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain bikers!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

  #115  
Old March 4th 14, 12:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Blackblade[_2_]
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Posts: 218
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

Ah, at last, we can cut to the chase. The issue has very
little to do with mountainbikes vs hikers ... if there were 17 hikers also on
that trail they would have caused similar levels of erosion.

I note also that this guy concedes that he did not feel threatened

or endangered.

There are always saps in the world who do mind being pushed
aside provided it is done with politeness. Mr. Vandeman is the expert on who
causes what kind of erosion. I am the expert on who should be on a trail in the
first place. It has to do with purpose, not who causes the most erosion.


What expertise do you have Ed ? I see none aside from your own prejudice.

If you don't have an issue on the grounds of erosion, which is what the article is about, and there isn't an issue on the grounds of conflict between users then what, precisely, are you objecting to ?

There is absolutely an issue ... we have to preserve the natural

environment for future generations. My argument with you is that you seem
to believe that hiking is entirely beneficial and mountainbiking harmful.
The facts are that they are both activities which cause similar levels of
erosion and there have to be user limits if we are not to destroy the things we
love.



I suppose you would think that motorcycles and all-terrain
vehicles would also cause "similar" levels of erosion.


No, Ed, the research suggests that hikers and bikers cause similar levels of erosion ... horses and powered vehicles cause far far more.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by
hikers - rant snipped


I get it .. you don't like mountainbikers. You don't need to re-post the same text incessantly ... it just makes you look foolish.
  #116  
Old March 4th 14, 01:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Blackblade[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 218
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

I was very clear that you are entitled to risk only your own neck
... not others. Stop willfully misrepresenting what I said.

You have already told me that you engage in high risk sports.
I have already told you how stupid I think that is.


And you're entitled to your viewpoint. I am similarly entitled to disagree and completely ignore you. It's really nothing to do with you.

The fact is that mountain bikers are constantly breaking the
law. Why? Because it is no fun to ride sedately on a trail. They are into taking
risks just like you are. That is why I call them and you merchants of death.


And your point is what ? That some sections of the populace want to experience riskier activities ? No **** sherlock ! There are hormonal changes in the body, including the reduction in testosterone, that predispose older men to becoming more risk averse. So, true, for large sections of the population a gentle ramble through the woods is not likely to trigger much dopamine nor nor-adrenaline. However, were that not the case human development would have stalled a long time ago; risk taking behaviour is, provided not taken to excess, a good thing.

Your "freedom of choice" ethos is a dagger planted squarely at the heart of
unsuspecting victims.


Well, the alternative is fascism (or nanny stateism). Adults are entitled to risk their own necks.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by
hikers - unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like
everyone else.


Stop ranting ... it doesn't get any more convincing for multiple repeats.


When they crash and injury themselves, I rejoice! If and when
they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to
mountain bikers!


Sociopath. (And you might want to look at your grammar too ... it should be crash and injure)

  #117  
Old March 4th 14, 01:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Blackblade[_2_]
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Posts: 218
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

You've heard from him ... he's concerned about four-wheel drivers,
motorcycle riders, prospectors, hunters and fishermen.* I don't see
mountainbikers in that list ... probably because they have about the same impact
as hikers.

I believe he is indeed including cyclists elsewhere in his
report. We do not want wheeled vehicles of any sort on hiking
trails.


Ah, you believe that do you ? Like you believed that there were thousands of hiker/biker collisions but, in reality, there weren't. Your beliefs, right now, have very little credibility. I suggest you either backup your beliefs with objective facts or avoid making statements that you have to later retract.

  #118  
Old March 4th 14, 01:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Blackblade[_2_]
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Posts: 218
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

All recreations have to be managed sensibly ... but that means
pragmatic solutions to individual circumstances ... not messianic proclamations
!

If recreations are sufficiently different from one another,
there is absolutely no way to combine them. Each recreation needs it own trails.
That is the "pragmatic solution" which is apparent to all but the blind, deaf
and dumb mountain bikers.


Why Ed ? There is no reason whatsoever why most trails can't be shared. Sharing works fine in most places. The videos you posted show the completely ridiculous nature of your position; you would advocate creating new trails when those videos clearly show that the existing ones are very lightly trafficked with hardly any conflict.

Ed, YOU posted these links. Are they not representative of

reality now ? If so, why did you post them ?

The thousands of videos that you will see on YouTube are
representative. I no long bother looking at them they are so g.d.
idiotic.


You are going in circles. You posted videos then decided you didn't like what they showed so you want to refer to some amorphous 'other' ones on YouTube. Your case is completely shot. Why do you keep posting 'evidence' that doesn't support your propositions ?

What bit of "stop within the distance you can see to be clear" was

unclear Ed ? If the sightline is practically nil then the speed needs to
be that much slower. If it's a long way ahead then speed can be much
higher. Simple.

Nothing is ever simple when you have testosterone prone
mountain bikers hogging the trails.


Ah, and back to ad hominem attacks rather than facts. I would also note that, bereft testosterone, the human race would have died out. You do sound like a rather bitter old man; did you never live a little when younger ?

Oh do stop going in circles ... it's very tiresome. I've

addressed this issue ad nauseum. If power, speed, weight, noise and
environmental damage differences between powered trail bikes and mountain bikes
are not obvious to you then you need glasses and a hearing aid.


If power, speed, weight, noise and environmental damage differences between
mountain bikes and people walking are not obvious to you then you need glasses
and a hearing aid. The only tiresome bore here is you.


Power; exactly the same (1 human power = approx 750 watts max)
Speed; Approximately 2x on average
Weight; Approx 15% higher for biker
Noise; equivalent
Environmental impact; equivalent

The facts, as usual, don't support you Ed.

Mountain bikers are barbarians ... rant snipped


Do stop with the ranting ... makes you look very foolish.
  #119  
Old March 4th 14, 08:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 531
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Ah, at last, we can cut to the chase. The issue has very

little to do with mountainbikes vs hikers ... if there were 17 hikers also on
that trail they would have caused similar levels of erosion.

I note also that this guy concedes that he did not feel threatened

or endangered.


Edward Dolan wrote:

There are always saps in the world who do [not] mind being pushed
aside provided it is done with politeness. Mr. Vandeman is the expert on who
causes what kind of erosion. I am the expert on who should be on a trail in the
first place. It has to do with purpose, not who causes the most erosion.


What expertise do you have Ed ? I see none aside from your own prejudice.


I claim expertise based on all the idiots I have to deal with here on this newsgroup.

If you don't have an issue on the grounds of erosion, which is what the article is about, and there isn't an issue on the grounds of conflict between users then what, precisely, are you objecting to ?


This thread is not about any single issue, but about bikes on trails - period! There is a conflict between users based on purpose. Hikers use trails for contemplating and communing with nature. Bikers use trails for sport riding as on an obstacle course. Different universes!

There is absolutely an issue ... we have to preserve the natural

environment for future generations. My argument with you is that you seem
to believe that hiking is entirely beneficial and mountainbiking harmful.
The facts are that they are both activities which cause similar levels of
erosion and there have to be user limits if we are not to destroy the things we
love.

I suppose you would think that motorcycles and all-terrain
vehicles would also cause "similar" levels of erosion.


No, Ed, the research suggests that hikers and bikers cause similar levels of erosion ... horses and powered vehicles cause far far more.


It is not just a question of who is causing more erosion, but also a question of what kind of erosion is being caused by the different modes. Bikers cause one kind of erosion peculiar to wheels, hikers cause quite another kind of erosion due to boots.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by
hikers - rant snipped


I get it .. you don't like mountainbikers. You don't need to re-post the same text incessantly ... it just makes you look foolish.


It is part of my signature, Get used to it because it defines my position exactly. Others may be reading these posts besides us, and I want them to know where I stand without any equivocation.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injury themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain bikers!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


  #120  
Old March 4th 14, 09:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 531
Default The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

I was very clear that you are entitled to risk only your own neck

... not others. Stop willfully misrepresenting what I said.


Edward Dolan wrote:

You have already told me that you engage in high risk sports.
I have already told you how stupid I think that is.


And you're entitled to your viewpoint. I am similarly entitled to disagree and completely ignore you. It's really nothing to do with you.


I will not feel any sympathy for you when you end up paralyzed from the neck down like that other idiot Christopher Reeves (Superman).

The fact is that mountain bikers are constantly breaking the
law. Why? Because it is no fun to ride sedately on a trail. They are into taking
risks just like you are. That is why I call them and you merchants of death.


And your point is what ? That some sections of the populace want to experience riskier activities ? No **** sherlock ! There are hormonal changes in the body, including the reduction in testosterone, that predispose older men to becoming more risk averse. So, true, for large sections of the population a gentle ramble through the woods is not likely to trigger much dopamine nor nor-adrenaline. However, were that not the case human development would have stalled a long time ago; risk taking behaviour is, provided not taken to excess, a good thing.


Take your god damn ****ing risk taking (mountain biking) anywhere except on my sacred trails!

By the way, your true home is an amusement park featuring scary rides. There you can get your adrenalin rush and still be safe.

Your "freedom of choice" ethos is a dagger planted squarely at the heart of
unsuspecting victims.


Well, the alternative is fascism (or nanny stateism). Adults are entitled to risk their own necks.


Stupid is as stupid does. Anyone who risks their necks for a thrill is not an adult. Such an idiot is a juvenile.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by
hikers - unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like
everyone else.


Stop ranting ... it doesn't get any more convincing for multiple repeats.


Repetition is at the heart of all learning.

When they crash and injury themselves, I rejoice! If and when
they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to
mountain bikers!


Sociopath. (And you might want to look at your grammar too ... it should be crash and injure)


Spelling mistakes are always due to typos. The fact is that I can’t type worth a damn. My spell check can **** me up too.

Better to be a sociopath who at least wants people to live out their natural lives than a merchant of death like you who knowingly leads cyclists to their deaths by promoting mountain biking on hiking trails.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain bikers!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


 




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