A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old August 19th 03, 03:24 PM
Qui si parla Campagnolo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

david- Yes, but it is reasonable to preclude anyone from doing so?
I don't think that it is. To me, it's price fixing.
I certainly don't expect a shop to sell at a loss, but I expect to get a
decent price. BRBR

You do get a 'decent' price when you pay MSRP, a price determined to be fair
and based on the shop's expenses.

CK isn't trying to tell people what to charge, they are just trying to protect
their distribution. Charge $80 for a CK HS, just don't expect to be able to BUY
any more.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
Ads
  #14  
Old August 19th 03, 05:02 PM
Dion Dock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

It is illegal for a manufacturer make retailers agree to sell their product
for a given price. It is not illegal for a manufacturer to make retailers
agree to _advertise_ their product only at a given price.

This means you won't be able to get catalogs and print ads with King
headsets priced much lower than your local shop. Ever wonder why you see
"call for lowest price"?

(BTW, you can get King headsets without the "King" written all over the
races. It takes a special order but I didn't have to wait more than a week
for mine.)

I also agree, there are other fine headsets that cost less than Kings,
they're just harder to find in stock and they won't be anodized to match
your bike.

-Dion


"Bill Davidson" wrote in message
news:9Xh0b.9950$kP.379@fed1read03...
Donald Gillies wrote:
Chris King recently changed their pricing policy. They now require all
dealers to consent in writing that Chris King products will be

advertised
at a price that Chris King believes riders should pay. The new, fixed
retail price would be the same for all Chris King dealers and higher

than
what we currently charge. In a recent phone conversation a Chris King
representative stated that if we did not sign the agreement they would

no
longer sell their products to us. They would also ban their distributors
from selling to us.



  #15  
Old August 19th 03, 05:24 PM
Tom Ace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

Peter Chisholm wrote:


You do get a 'decent' price when you pay MSRP, a price determined to be fair
and based on the shop's expenses.


For many products, MSRPs are set somewhat above a typical selling price.
It's a game, it's a way of making the usual selling price appear to be
a discount, and thus seem like a better deal.


CK isn't trying to tell people what to charge,


The hell they aren't.

they are just trying to protect
their distribution. Charge $80 for a CK HS, just don't expect to be able to BUY
any more.



Tom Ace
  #16  
Old August 19th 03, 05:39 PM
Tom Ace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

Peter Chisholm wrote:

Why don't they just ask the higher price? Sounds like they are making a
political statement, not a business one...particularly if they think it's such
a fine piece of gear. Why not just use a 'normal' mark-up, not trying to
devalue the product?


Yes, it is a kind of political statement.
Is there something wrong with having principles?


Tom Ace
  #17  
Old August 19th 03, 06:50 PM
Paul Kopit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:19:16 -0400, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:

A well managed bike shop will have lower expenses than a poorly
managed bike shop.


Not at all true. Rentals in places like Santa Monica are astounding.
Helen's is a wonderful shop and sells some stuff at above MSRP. That
is true for components, clothing and bicycles. They do have specials
and still compete effectively with Supergo, about 1 mile down the
street. Supergo's prices at the shop are no bargain normally either
and they don't meet their own catalog price either.

Most of the people in the shop are quite knowledgeable and their
serevice is fine. I heard 2 in conversation refer to Supergo
customers as "bottom feeders" but I'd doubt that is the prevailing
attitude of the management there. They may be the #1 or #2 Cannondale
dealer in USA. They have good inventories of many items.
  #18  
Old August 19th 03, 08:43 PM
Jim Edgar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

Alex Rodriguez at wrote on 8/19/03 8:19 AM:
How does the manufacturer determine your expenses when they come up with
the MSRP? A well managed bike shop will have lower expenses than a poorly
managed bike shop. Why should they be forced to charge more? They could
attract more customers to their shop by charging a lower price. Then the
customer would get a good product from a good bike shop. I'm sure that as a
r.b.t regular you have seen the many thread on the crappy service some
shops provide, not yours of course.


I think the issue is that CK is tired of seeing their $120 headset on sale
at $88. It makes people think it's an $88 headset. Then it makes people
think that their full-service bike shop should charge $88 for it. Then the
full-service bike shop gets ****ed and calls CK and asks why some ******
with a resale license and a yahoo.com shop can be undercutting them.

If the "well managed" shop you speak of has better service, customer
relations, reputation, store quality, etc., - and they manage to articulate
that difference in word and action - then they will get more customers - far
more than they would get by cutting their margin on a headset.

Good retailers keep their prices in line and do what they can to lower costs
or make effective use of their resources.

Good manufacturers support their retail distribution chain, or they figure
out how to make work on a direct basis.

This scheme is just suporting those shops that don't know how to run a
business.


I beg to differ - plenty of people manage to lose their ass in retail. CK
headsets aren't going to make the difference for a loser shop.

And for the loser shops who don't understand margin, there are plenty of
other manufacturers who wouldn't care a speck if their stuff gets sold at $1
over wholesale, as long as they get paid. They can sell a ton of stuff at
cheap, cheap prices and then wonder why they can't pay any bills.

The quality shop has a right to make more margin on one item to support
lower margins on other things, not to mention the costs inherent in carrying
inventory in the shop, so we can all go in and drool over cool gear and
things.

-- Jim



  #19  
Old August 19th 03, 09:31 PM
Jim Edgar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

I wrote:
The quality shop has a right to make more margin on one item to support
lower margins on other things, not to mention the costs inherent in carrying
inventory in the shop, so we can all go in and drool over cool gear and
things.


Mike S. at mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet wrote on 8/19/03 1:03 PM:
That's called Labor. Where do you think shops make their money? It
certainly ain't on parts!


Parts is Parts. Labor isn't what we're talking about here.

The issue at hand is that another poster stated that maintaining MSRP's
somehow subsidizes shops which aren't well run.

Not all margins are the same. Sometimes a superior product like the Chris
King headsets have a lower margin, while the "bread & butter" replacement
stuff has a great margin. When the margin is below a certain level, there's
no reason for a shop to stock something.

For the manufacturer of a quality product, the issue is that they have to
ask a retailer to stock their product, which might sit there for a bit
longer than the $20 no-name brand version. Why is it in the retailer's
interest to do so if they are only going to make 5% on something?

It seems like CK is weeding out the guys who want to place the order with
them _after_ they take the customer's money. They want to support their
dealers who have the stuff in stock - and they realize that costs money for
the dealer.

-- Jim

ps - please take a look at your newsreader quoting. it ain't.





  #20  
Old August 19th 03, 10:22 PM
Mark Wolfe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Say it aint so Shimano ... PART 2

It's price fixing. Why not let the market decide the what it will fetch.
I gave 100 for mine and didn't have an issue with it because of the
reputation and the quality of the headset. They don't need to go to these
tatics to set a price. As a shop, you've got your cost on the part, if CK
wants to bring the price up for all bike shops, they need to increase what
they charge for the part and let the bike shops decide on what sort of
profit they make. Not make the shops sign an agreement to maintain a
certain price.

Mark


Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

from branford- We have used Chris King headsets for over twenty years

with
excellent
results. Like Phil Wood bottom brackets, Chris King headsets spin smoother
and last longer than anything else available BRBR

etc... Chris King recently changed their pricing policy. They now

require all

dealers to consent in writing that Chris King products will be advertised
at a price that Chris King believes riders should pay. The new, fixed
retail price would be the same for all Chris King dealers and higher than
what we currently charge. BRBR

Why don't they just ask the higher price? Sounds like they are making a
political statement, not a business one...particularly if they think it's

such
a fine piece of gear. Why not just use a 'normal' mark-up, not trying to
devalue the product?

You can CK hs from me, btw..'cutting off nose to spite face' comes to

mind.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"


--
Mark Wolfe http://www.wolfenet.org
gpg fingerprint = 42B6 EFEB 5414 AA18 01B7 64AC EF46 F7E6 82F6 8C71
"Anyone attempting to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of
course, living in a state of sin."
- John Von Neumann
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Say it ain't so Shimano! Jean Techniques 75 August 29th 03 01:53 PM
SRAM vs SHimano Edward Holt Mountain Biking 7 August 28th 03 03:40 PM
WTB: Campy brake levers- All Shimano goes. Paul Kopit Techniques 7 August 4th 03 02:07 PM
Shimano (and others) OEM component stream... Qui si parla Campagnolo Techniques 14 July 24th 03 01:43 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.