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#1
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riding on the sidewalk
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...604-story.html -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#2
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riding on the sidewalk
On 6/5/2016 2:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...604-story.html He was riding against the direction of traffic on a sidewalk. That's much more dangerous than riding properly in the lane. Unfortunately, many "protected cycletracks" put cyclists in exactly that same situation. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#3
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riding on the sidewalk
On 06/06/16 05:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/5/2016 2:19 PM, AMuzi wrote: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...604-story.html He was riding against the direction of traffic on a sidewalk. That's much more dangerous than riding properly in the lane. Unfortunately, many "protected cycletracks" put cyclists in exactly that same situation. Perhaps the "sidewalk" needs re-engineering? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYjUHKlH9k -- JS |
#4
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riding on the sidewalk
https://www.google.com/#q=87th+Stree...Latrobe+Avenue https://goo.gl/kdPzOf search for: 87 and Latrobe then ….. cyclist emerged from behind the tree at a speed above legal sidewalk speeds then refused to yield to the truck https://goo.gl/vBQYNe |
#5
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riding on the sidewalk
On 6/5/2016 5:03 PM, James wrote:
On 06/06/16 05:18, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/5/2016 2:19 PM, AMuzi wrote: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...604-story.html He was riding against the direction of traffic on a sidewalk. That's much more dangerous than riding properly in the lane. Unfortunately, many "protected cycletracks" put cyclists in exactly that same situation. Perhaps the "sidewalk" needs re-engineering? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYjUHKlH9k I'm aware that these things, when well designed, seem to work in the Netherlands. But I wonder if a necessary prerequisite for their success is a culture that has deeply embraced cycling. In other words, I wonder if certain cycling advocates have confused cause and effect. I've not yet ridden in the Netherlands, but my daughter did. She reported that in Amsterdam, she found the maze of bike facilities confusing at times. But she took comfort in their strict liability laws. She told us that there were many times that she got a bit confused, but that motorists slammed to a stop to let her pass, with never a complaint. They always seemed to be super-cautious around bikes. In that culture, I suppose there's less risk for a cyclist in an unexpected direction - because, I suppose, cyclists are expected to come from any direction. Here's her report, although she gave us much more detail at home: http://bicyclinglife.com/Recreation/amsterdam.htm And by the way, in not-too-distant Copenhagen, which also has a 100 year bike culture, the best before-after studies of cycletracks found significant _increases_ in crash rates! See www.vehicularcyclist.com/copenhagen2.pdf especially conclusion #2. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#6
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riding on the sidewalk
On 06/06/16 11:05, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/5/2016 5:03 PM, James wrote: On 06/06/16 05:18, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/5/2016 2:19 PM, AMuzi wrote: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...604-story.html He was riding against the direction of traffic on a sidewalk. That's much more dangerous than riding properly in the lane. Unfortunately, many "protected cycletracks" put cyclists in exactly that same situation. Perhaps the "sidewalk" needs re-engineering? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYjUHKlH9k I'm aware that these things, when well designed, seem to work in the Netherlands. But I wonder if a necessary prerequisite for their success is a culture that has deeply embraced cycling. In other words, I wonder if certain cycling advocates have confused cause and effect. I've not yet ridden in the Netherlands, but my daughter did. She reported that in Amsterdam, she found the maze of bike facilities confusing at times. But she took comfort in their strict liability laws. She told us that there were many times that she got a bit confused, but that motorists slammed to a stop to let her pass, with never a complaint. They always seemed to be super-cautious around bikes. Interestingly & AFAIK, the strict liability laws only apply to monetary liability. Could be wrong. Also, I have been very confused by the maze of twisting and turning roads around Brisbane - regardless whether I'm in a car or on a bike. Melbourne was far easier to navigate. In that culture, I suppose there's less risk for a cyclist in an unexpected direction - because, I suppose, cyclists are expected to come from any direction. Here's her report, although she gave us much more detail at home: http://bicyclinglife.com/Recreation/amsterdam.htm And by the way, in not-too-distant Copenhagen, which also has a 100 year bike culture, the best before-after studies of cycletracks found significant _increases_ in crash rates! See www.vehicularcyclist.com/copenhagen2.pdf especially conclusion #2. I note the last sentence from the Abstract. -- JS |
#7
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riding on the sidewalk
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 21:05:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 6/5/2016 5:03 PM, James wrote: On 06/06/16 05:18, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/5/2016 2:19 PM, AMuzi wrote: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...604-story.html He was riding against the direction of traffic on a sidewalk. That's much more dangerous than riding properly in the lane. Unfortunately, many "protected cycletracks" put cyclists in exactly that same situation. Perhaps the "sidewalk" needs re-engineering? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYjUHKlH9k I'm aware that these things, when well designed, seem to work in the Netherlands. But I wonder if a necessary prerequisite for their success is a culture that has deeply embraced cycling. In other words, I wonder if certain cycling advocates have confused cause and effect. I've not yet ridden in the Netherlands, but my daughter did. She reported that in Amsterdam, she found the maze of bike facilities confusing at times. But she took comfort in their strict liability laws. She told us that there were many times that she got a bit confused, but that motorists slammed to a stop to let her pass, with never a complaint. They always seemed to be super-cautious around bikes. In that culture, I suppose there's less risk for a cyclist in an unexpected direction - because, I suppose, cyclists are expected to come from any direction. Here's her report, although she gave us much more detail at home: http://bicyclinglife.com/Recreation/amsterdam.htm And by the way, in not-too-distant Copenhagen, which also has a 100 year bike culture, the best before-after studies of cycletracks found significant _increases_ in crash rates! See www.vehicularcyclist.com/copenhagen2.pdf especially conclusion #2. I think that there are a lot of different reasons for successful, or unsuccessful, bicycle schemes. For example, here an extremely large percent of the population probably has access to a bicycle and people riding to the local market aren't unusual at all. On our little lane you will normally see people riding sedately down the street to buy the day's groceries. Even riding the wrong way :-) is extremely common. There is even a protocol for riding the wrong way and I was once reprimanded by a bloke for doing it wrong. (doing wrong the wrong way?) In addition to bicycles there are small 90 - 125cc motorcycles, even "motorcycle taxies", who weave in and out of traffic, and have an extremely high death rate. So two wheeled vehicles are not unusual. In fact there are undoubtedly more two wheel vehicles on the road that four wheeled, and it might be added is not unusually for the motorcycles to be dodging in and out of traffic. So here two wheel vehicles are all over the place and "right to the road" isn't really a question. Everyone has it and there is a sort of unofficial understanding that in a collision the biggest vehicle is in the wrong. This is not a legal ruling but if you are on a bicycle and there is a collision with a pedestrian the police will grab the cyclist. At least until they find out what really happened. In contrast, in the U.S., when I was growing up, anyone 16 years or older seen on a bicycle would have been considered as mentally incompetent. I suggest that the "car culture" in the U.S. probably has a very large effect on the usual attitude to bicyclists that I see described here, in contrast to what I see here. I read that 30% of Dutch families do not own a car, in contrast over 90% of Usian families own one "OR MORE" cars. I believe that comparing, for example, the U.S. and the Netherlands, or any other country for that matter, is really not apples and apples. -- cheers, John B. |
#8
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riding on the sidewalk
encouraging speed sports isnot training for speed sports ...to expand: there exists a spectrum of behavior of that NOT linked in dependency of results in what seems to be for some observers a linked relationship.
We are continuously asshole deep in these misunderstandings. The cemetery collects here. To wit: knowing birds fly does not .. I suggest we waterboard Frank to hear why he would float the linkage. |
#9
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riding on the sidewalk
AMuzi wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...604-story.html "the boy, who was eastbound on the 87th Street sidewalk, crossing Latrobe" No telling what that's supposed to mean. What is your point? |
#10
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riding on the sidewalk
James wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: AMuzi wrote: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburb...n/news/ct-sta- burbank-bicyclist-killed-st-0605-20160604-story.html He was riding against the direction of traffic on a sidewalk. That's much more dangerous than riding properly in the lane. Unfortunately, many "protected cycletracks" put cyclists in exactly that same situation. Perhaps the "sidewalk" needs re-engineering? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYjUHKlH9k That looks like a death trap. |
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