Mountain Biking: "Such sports do not accomplish anything socially useful"

"Moi-aussi" wrote in message
m...

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...

Too bad it's not a mathematical issue. You STILL don't understand
that. You are a nebbish. A zero. An expert in being insignificant.


At the end of trhe day, everything is a mathematical issue. The issue
itself might be math-free, but the impact and effect can be measured, and
measuring is always a math issue.

If you were 100% effective in your agenda, you might (at the very best)
save 0.0004% of the environment. Basically, less than a newspaper page on
a tennis court. Since the impact is really far less than you assert, your
effectiveness is also far lower, maybe a letter sized sheet of paper on a
tennis court. I suspect actual ratio is closer to a postage stamp on a
tennis court ...

Add your utter lack of social significance to your complete lunacy, and
the picture is not very impressive.


You really help to put it in perspective, although I think the postage
stamp is more likely located on a few thousand hectares of forest.
HOWEVER, the entertainment value of idiot-sticks postings is far greater!
Reading this simpletons drivel is quite fascinating. It give an insight
into the unstable mind that has delusions of grandeur.

He honestly believes that:

1. He has a point other than the one on top of his head.
2. He is making, or can make a difference.
3. That a difference WRT MTBing needs to be made!

He doesn't detract from this group, he truly adds to it. Like a pathetic
court jester, or, more accurately, a village idiot, he is usually quite
funny if viewed from the proper perspective. I suppose if you took him
seriously or if he had any valid points, it might be possible to feel
annoyed with him.



The trouble isn't Mike, per se. The trouble is the thought process he
represents.

I drive a Jeep on fire roads and the like. When I was much youinger, I rode
a motorcycle -- a dirt bike. Mike, and voices like him are shrill and
incessant, and the powers that be tend to give Mike what he wants for no
other reason than to shut him up for the moment.

Mike and his ilk rounded up all of the motorcycles in the desert and herded
them into off road vehicle parks, now he seeks to shut down the off road
vehicle parks. The rationale being that the desert was being destroyed, and
now the vehicle parks are a wasteland. Now that I drive a Jeep instead of a
motorcycle, I go to the same places in my Jeep that I formerly went to on my
bike, and what I find is that there is lots of desert out there and it is
thriving.

I've seen (and taken part in) studies of off road vehicle routes and the
impact on the surrounding habitat. Mike and his ilk are working feverishly
to close the Glamis Sand Dunes because they claim there is a poisonous weed
that is being threatened by the dune buggy traffic. The facts are, the weeds
are dong better in the portion of the dunes where the buggies operate than
in the portion where the buggies are already banned.

Mike is blinded by his own venom, and he would seek to close any and all
vehicle routes anywhere. If you follow him long enough you will find that
his real agenda is to keep all rubber off of all dirt. He would prefer you
get your dose of wilderness by visiting a museum. I'm reminded of the Carol
King song, They Paved Paradise and Put Up a Parking Lot, where the verse
says, the took all the trees and put 'em in a tree museum, and charged
people a dollar and a half just to see 'em ...

You may see humor on Mike's stupidity, but he and his ilk have the ear of
your legislators and they eventually tire of his rants so they cave to his
demands.

There are 43,560 sq ft to an acre, and 640 acres to a sq mile, so there are
29,798,400 sq ft to a sq mile. If a trail is 2ft wide and a mile long, then
5,280 x 2ft = 10,560 sq ft. A trail that is one mile long in a square mile
takes just 0.04% of the space it cuts through. That's less than one half of
one tenth of one percent, AND less than 100 ft of that is actually "damaged"
by any definition of the word. Can you visualize a postage stamp on a tennis
court?

Mike would have us believe that the mere presence of the route is damage,
and this is too dangerous to ignore. He is working to make your legislators
believe that the mere presence of a route is damage. That is the danger.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:27:16 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.

Lol...that is a funny picture. Too bad that athletic male isn't you.

Then why did you say it was me, when you knew it wasn't, LIAR? What
did you accomplish, other than branding yourself for all time as
someone who can't be trusted? Still waiting for your answer....

You're pathetic.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:08:50 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .

Too bad it's not a mathematical issue. You STILL don't understand
that. You are a nebbish. A zero. An expert in being insignificant.


At the end of trhe day, everything is a mathematical issue. The issue itself
might be math-free, but the impact and effect can be measured, and measuring
is always a math issue.

Tell me how math is involved, when plants and animals are killed by
mountain bikers. Idiot.

If you were 100% effective in your agenda, you might (at the very best) save
0.0004% of the environment. Basically, less than a newspaper page on a
tennis court. Since the impact is really far less than you assert, your
effectiveness is also far lower, maybe a letter sized sheet of paper on a
tennis court. I suspect actual ratio is closer to a postage stamp on a
tennis court ...

You haven't used any science whatsoever. You are fantasizing again,
Mr. ZERO.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:59:21 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Moi-aussi" wrote in message
om...

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...

Too bad it's not a mathematical issue. You STILL don't understand
that. You are a nebbish. A zero. An expert in being insignificant.


At the end of trhe day, everything is a mathematical issue. The issue
itself might be math-free, but the impact and effect can be measured, and
measuring is always a math issue.

If you were 100% effective in your agenda, you might (at the very best)
save 0.0004% of the environment. Basically, less than a newspaper page on
a tennis court. Since the impact is really far less than you assert, your
effectiveness is also far lower, maybe a letter sized sheet of paper on a
tennis court. I suspect actual ratio is closer to a postage stamp on a
tennis court ...

Add your utter lack of social significance to your complete lunacy, and
the picture is not very impressive.


You really help to put it in perspective, although I think the postage
stamp is more likely located on a few thousand hectares of forest.
HOWEVER, the entertainment value of idiot-sticks postings is far greater!
Reading this simpletons drivel is quite fascinating. It give an insight
into the unstable mind that has delusions of grandeur.

He honestly believes that:

1. He has a point other than the one on top of his head.
2. He is making, or can make a difference.
3. That a difference WRT MTBing needs to be made!

He doesn't detract from this group, he truly adds to it. Like a pathetic
court jester, or, more accurately, a village idiot, he is usually quite
funny if viewed from the proper perspective. I suppose if you took him
seriously or if he had any valid points, it might be possible to feel
annoyed with him.



The trouble isn't Mike, per se. The trouble is the thought process he
represents.

I drive a Jeep on fire roads and the like. When I was much youinger, I rode
a motorcycle -- a dirt bike. Mike, and voices like him are shrill and
incessant, and the powers that be tend to give Mike what he wants for no
other reason than to shut him up for the moment.

Mike and his ilk rounded up all of the motorcycles in the desert and herded
them into off road vehicle parks, now he seeks to shut down the off road
vehicle parks. The rationale being that the desert was being destroyed, and
now the vehicle parks are a wasteland. Now that I drive a Jeep instead of a
motorcycle, I go to the same places in my Jeep that I formerly went to on my
bike, and what I find is that there is lots of desert out there and it is
thriving.

I've seen (and taken part in) studies of off road vehicle routes and the
impact on the surrounding habitat. Mike and his ilk are working feverishly
to close the Glamis Sand Dunes because they claim there is a poisonous weed
that is being threatened by the dune buggy traffic. The facts are, the weeds
are dong better in the portion of the dunes where the buggies operate than
in the portion where the buggies are already banned.

Mike is blinded by his own venom, and he would seek to close any and all
vehicle routes anywhere. If you follow him long enough you will find that
his real agenda is to keep all rubber off of all dirt. He would prefer you
get your dose of wilderness by visiting a museum. I'm reminded of the Carol
King song, They Paved Paradise and Put Up a Parking Lot, where the verse
says, the took all the trees and put 'em in a tree museum, and charged
people a dollar and a half just to see 'em ...

You may see humor on Mike's stupidity, but he and his ilk have the ear of
your legislators and they eventually tire of his rants so they cave to his
demands.

There are 43,560 sq ft to an acre, and 640 acres to a sq mile, so there are
29,798,400 sq ft to a sq mile. If a trail is 2ft wide and a mile long, then
5,280 x 2ft = 10,560 sq ft. A trail that is one mile long in a square mile
takes just 0.04% of the space it cuts through. That's less than one half of
one tenth of one percent, AND less than 100 ft of that is actually "damaged"
by any definition of the word. Can you visualize a postage stamp on a tennis
court?

Mike would have us believe that the mere presence of the route is damage,
and this is too dangerous to ignore. He is working to make your legislators
believe that the mere presence of a route is damage. That is the danger.

That's an established FACT, which you would know, if you knew ANYTHING
about biology. See http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/roads1.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On 14 Feb, 22:49, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:27:16 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.



Then why did you say it was me, when you knew it wasn't, LIAR? What
did you accomplish, other than branding yourself for all time as
someone who can't be trusted? Still waiting for your answer....

You're pathetic.


Hmmm...i just reread it again. Are you VanderMan? no...you're
vandeman. lol. if that is the so-called lie? I would rather have that
than the thousands of untruths and half truths you distribute. I don't
have to lie or be mysterious about my background. You do. Because you
work for a massive company that destroys nature in the name of
advanced technology. You have never denied this...You did fly in an
airplane to conferences in australia and other areas...yet you stated
you "walked" to the Oz airport which turned out to be another lie. You
claim info about the sierra club...yet they had enough sense to KICK
you out...lol. You claimed you wrote a book on MTBing. Yet cannot
produce any proof. You claim writings...and they are mere "literature
reviews." where you copy others material. You state that if you rode a
mtb at one time in your life...it makes you a mtber. Yet you admit to
riding a mtb once...thus making you a mtber.

You're a fraud, and a hypocrite and liar.

On Feb 14, 8:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
That's an established FACT, which you would know, if you knew ANYTHING
about biology. Seehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/roads1.

It is more telling that your degree is NOT in biology. It is also
telling that you cannot produce any sources other than your own
website to support your assertion, which references another article
written under an assumed name with no citations at all.You know
nothing about science Mike. I admire your dedication, but your cause
is manufactured, misplaced, and undermines legitimate conservancy
efforts.

Chris

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:06:40 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On 14 Feb, 22:49, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:27:16 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.



Then why did you say it was me, when you knew it wasn't, LIAR? What
did you accomplish, other than branding yourself for all time as
someone who can't be trusted? Still waiting for your answer....

You're pathetic.


Hmmm...i just reread it again. Are you VanderMan?

No one in that photo is named "VanderMan", "Vandeman", or anything
like it, LIAR.

no...you're
vandeman. lol. if that is the so-called lie? I would rather have that
than the thousands of untruths and half truths you distribute. I don't
have to lie or be mysterious about my background. You do. Because you
work for a massive company that destroys nature in the name of
advanced technology.

LIAR.

You have never denied this...You did fly in an
airplane to conferences in australia and other areas...yet you stated
you "walked" to the Oz airport which turned out to be another lie.

LIAR.

You
claim info about the sierra club...yet they had enough sense to KICK
you out.

LIAR

..lol. You claimed you wrote a book on MTBing.

LIAR

Yet cannot
produce any proof. You claim writings...and they are mere "literature
reviews." where you copy others material. You state that if you rode a
mtb at one time in your life...it makes you a mtber. Yet you admit to
riding a mtb once...thus making you a mtber.

LIAR

You're a fraud, and a hypocrite and liar.

You haven't said anything true for as long as I have known you. You
are a professional liar.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:14:47 -0800 (PST), Chris
wrote:

On Feb 14, 8:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
That's an established FACT, which you would know, if you knew ANYTHING
about biology. Seehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/roads1.

It is more telling that your degree is NOT in biology.

Irrelevant. Unlike you, I can be an expert in more than one subject,
which is why I have been invited to present papers at numerous
scientific conferences, including conferences on conservation biology.

It is also
telling that you cannot produce any sources other than your own
website to support your assertion, which references another article
written under an assumed name with no citations at all.

Written by the past president of the Society for Conservation Bology,
Reed Noss. That was just one source. There are many others, but you
obviously aren't interested in the truth.

You know
nothing about science Mike. I admire your dedication, but your cause
is manufactured, misplaced, and undermines legitimate conservancy
efforts.

How would you know, ignorant as you are of conservation biology?!

Chris
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
Mike would have us believe that the mere presence of the route is damage,
and this is too dangerous to ignore. He is working to make your
legislators
believe that the mere presence of a route is damage. That is the danger.

That's an established FACT, which you would know, if you knew ANYTHING
about biology. See http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/roads1.
--


I rest my case.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
On Feb 14, 8:01 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
That's an established FACT, which you would know, if you knew ANYTHING
about biology. Seehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/roads1.

It is more telling that your degree is NOT in biology. It is also
telling that you cannot produce any sources other than your own
website to support your assertion, which references another article
written under an assumed name with no citations at all.You know
nothing about science Mike. I admire your dedication, but your cause
is manufactured, misplaced, and undermines legitimate conservancy
efforts.



JS
I must admit that I have little admiration for Mike and his dedication to
nothing, but I agree whole heartedly with the notion that he does more harm
than good to the cause. I actually agree with him on some level, but his
rants and raves against a single issue are detrimental to any affort to
garner any general support for the cause.

/JS