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#11
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
On Tue, 29 May 2007 12:47:29 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote: Gasoline motor. Nobody's yet found an effective way to store as much energy as that, in as little weight. Commercially available, cheap, practical. Any other system is going to cost you more in time, money, and weight, than it will ever repay in work done, otherwise the world would be well equipped with just such devices. Anything that recovers energy on the down trip will cost more to carry back up. If time spent should be cost effective, you are already over budget for the time spent considering such foolishness. Cheers Trevor Jones Not necessarily. The fallacy in your logic is that you are ignoring the stored kinetic energy already in the weight on top of the mountain. Everyone is thinking in terms of lifting it up and carrying it down the mountain. The op has already put the idea of bicycles, trailers, springs and other wishful or incredibly complex systems in everyone's mind. Start at the beginning. You have a weight on top of a mountain, how do you get it down the mountain? Throw it off and let it roll down if you can - simple and not too costly. Parachute? high wire? ground dragging, low wire? I'd have to see the mountain, but I'll bet there's an easier cheaper way to do it that doesn't involve a lot of technology or fuel. -- ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#12
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
On May 29, 4:28 am, Greg Locock wrote:
wrote in news:1180432406.155025.128400 @n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com: i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large wind-up clock motor? the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for very much transport. A Flying fox. Used in Italy to get supplies to and from mountain tops. Two cables, one pulley, two carriers and a long bit of rope. One cable. |
#14
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
On May 29, 6:34 am, default wrote:
On 29 May 2007 02:53:26 -0700, wrote: i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large wind-up clock motor? the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for very much transport. the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock" on the spring-storage. at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much- lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored energy. Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then back up. Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective. A cable system with pulleys top and bottom. Two or more cargo carrying buckets. Weight of full bucket pulls cargo down and takes empty bucket up. If the cargo can't be suspended over the ground, you could still add wheels to the buckets to let them roll over the high points. You still have to get people up there to fill buckets - unless you can get the bats to deposit the guano into the bucket (just kidding). Perhaps the worker could ride an empty bucket up and just take a taut cable to ride down (McGuiver style) when his shift is over. Lot less hassle than bicycles and springs. Low tech with commonly available parts. -- ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - There are various railway systems around the world that work on that principle: two cars linked to a cable, running up and down, sometimes on a single railway with a cleverly-engineered passing lane in the middle. If the weight of the payload is sufficient to overcome the friction in the system, little additional energy would be required. Careful attention must be paid to the need to stop the payload at the bottom. |
#15
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
On May 29, 5:53 am, wrote:
i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large wind-up clock motor? the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. Which product, how far up the mountain is this location and how steep is the climb. there is an existing paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for very much transport. Doesn't seem to be viable at the outset. the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock" on the spring-storage. at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much- lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored energy. Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Assuming you can find a spring large enough to power 250 pounds of bicycle and rider up the hill you will have several kinds of losses. Winding the spring will take consume energy to spin the geared down winding train and slide the coils against one-another. Same losses apply going up the hill. The huge spring and gear train will weigh maybe 50 pounds and consume energy as it is moved around. Making this oversized clock mechamism will involve custom rolling for the spring and machine work for the spring housing and gear train. In short it will represent a considerable amount of up-front money. Consider enhancing the local economy and pay local boys by the bushel delivered. Alternatively you might think about a self-propelled hot air baloon. Capacitor storage might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. A capacitor????? How about a storage battery. The charge doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then back up. Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective. ???? |
#16
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
On May 29, 2:53 am, wrote:
i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large wind-up clock motor? the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for very much transport. There's a traditional scheme (used in Virginia a century or two back) where the harvest was put aboard a barge (or raft?) and sent downriver. At the lowland dock, the grain was sold, the barge disassembled and sold as lumber, and the farmer/boatman took his cash home on foot. Best solution might be as simple as resigning oneself to walking the bike back up the hill. If the road isn't well-maintained, the rider is the best mechanism to do that climb, and you can fuel the rider with the cash. |
#17
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
whit3rd wrote:
On May 29, 2:53 am, wrote: i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large wind-up clock motor? the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for very much transport. There's a traditional scheme (used in Virginia a century or two back) where the harvest was put aboard a barge (or raft?) and sent downriver. At the lowland dock, the grain was sold, the barge disassembled and sold as lumber, and the farmer/boatman took his cash home on foot. Best solution might be as simple as resigning oneself to walking the bike back up the hill. If the road isn't well-maintained, the rider is the best mechanism to do that climb, and you can fuel the rider with the cash. The OP had not made it clear how far is the "top on the mountain" source and the "place where it is sold" destination. There is just a poor reference to "not enough to pay for very much transport." If the "existing paved road" is 2 miles, human transport is OK, 200 miles (uphill) would cost a bunch. Technology will not solve this problem. donald |
#18
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
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#19
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
On Tue, 29 May 2007 12:47:29 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote: wrote: i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large wind-up clock motor?... Gasoline motor. Nobody's yet found an effective way to store as much energy as that, in as little weight. Commercially available, cheap, practical. .... Trevor Jones I used to see bike motors with friction drive on the tire tread, and also a fancier power-wheel with engine built in. I see these fellows making a come back. I like the kei-trucks from Japan, and I also see some motor scooters designed Lambretta style - but without the fairings, right now. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
#20
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need spring-energy-storage mechanism
wrote:
i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large wind-up clock motor? the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for very much transport. Greg Locock wrote: A Flying fox. Used in Italy to get supplies to and from mountain tops. Two cables, one pulley, two carriers and a long bit of rope. I missed the original post but a regular customer of ours used to grow it on a mountain on Kauai and bring it back in a fake leg cast - smeared with cat pee to dissuade the dogs. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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