Truing a wheel - how long?

I took my bike in to the shop where I purchased it yesterday to have a new
tire and tube installed, and when the mechanic looked at it after
installation to readjust the brakes (?). However, I immediately got the
feeling that something was wrong, but that he wasn't telling me what.

Today I went out on my ride and it was harder than usual. Applying the
brakes, I got a severe but intermittant 'grabbing' and it felt like I was
riding over mini-railroad ties. When I got home I looked at the wheel
closely and discovered it was rubbing the brake, and obviously no longer
'trued'.

I took it back today and was told:

"you hit something...this didn't happen overnight".

Well that's just not true. I rode it on a bike trail at much slower speed
than usual, apparently due to the brake pad rubbing.

Then he tells me "it's going to take over an hour to true the wheel." (!)

Followed by: "...and this is going to cost, b/c these wheels are hard to
true". Then he started talking about 'on the bike' versus 'off the bike',
and that I could just leave the tire? I didn't understand what he was
getting at. He said he didn't have a wheel I could borrow.

What irks me is that I think he realized the wheel was out of true when he
changed the tire and didn't say anything, being, perhaps, busy.

I'm just surprised that a wheel would take an hour to true. It's a typical
Trek race wheel, though with less spokes.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/City...0_FX/index.php

According to my bike log, I took the bike in on 6/16 and we discovered the
wheel needed trued, and he did it no charge in about 1/2 hour.

Am I being told the truth? sigh Sorry if I sound overly alarmed.

-B

Badger wrote:
|| I took my bike in to the shop where I purchased it yesterday to have
|| a new tire and tube installed, and when the mechanic looked at it
|| after installation to readjust the brakes (?). However, I
|| immediately got the feeling that something was wrong, but that he
|| wasn't telling me what.
||
|| Today I went out on my ride and it was harder than usual. Applying
|| the brakes, I got a severe but intermittant 'grabbing' and it felt
|| like I was riding over mini-railroad ties. When I got home I looked
|| at the wheel closely and discovered it was rubbing the brake, and
|| obviously no longer 'trued'.
||
|| I took it back today and was told:
||
|| "you hit something...this didn't happen overnight".
||
|| Well that's just not true. I rode it on a bike trail at much slower
|| speed than usual, apparently due to the brake pad rubbing.
||
|| Then he tells me "it's going to take over an hour to true the
|| wheel." (!)
||
|| Followed by: "...and this is going to cost, b/c these wheels are
|| hard to true". Then he started talking about 'on the bike' versus
|| 'off the bike', and that I could just leave the tire? I didn't
|| understand what he was getting at. He said he didn't have a wheel I
|| could borrow.
||
|| What irks me is that I think he realized the wheel was out of true
|| when he changed the tire and didn't say anything, being, perhaps,
|| busy.
||
|| I'm just surprised that a wheel would take an hour to true. It's a
|| typical Trek race wheel, though with less spokes.
||
||
http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/City...0_FX/index.php
||
|| According to my bike log, I took the bike in on 6/16 and we
|| discovered the wheel needed trued, and he did it no charge in about
|| 1/2 hour.
||
|| Am I being told the truth? sigh Sorry if I sound overly alarmed.

I popped a spoke on my rear wheel earlier this year. I took the bike in.
they supposedly trued the wheel twice (they didn't solve the spoke problem
the first time, so I took it back and the rebuilt the wheel), but neither
time did they get it right. I bought a new set of custom built wheels and
haven't had a problem since. I won't trust my LBS to true a wheel. I don't
think they do it enough to become good at it. YMMV.

Badger wrote:

I took my bike in to the shop where I purchased it yesterday to have a new
tire and tube installed, and when the mechanic looked at it after
installation to readjust the brakes (?). However, I immediately got the
feeling that something was wrong, but that he wasn't telling me what.

Today I went out on my ride and it was harder than usual. Applying the
brakes, I got a severe but intermittant 'grabbing' and it felt like I was
riding over mini-railroad ties. When I got home I looked at the wheel
closely and discovered it was rubbing the brake, and obviously no longer
'trued'.

I took it back today and was told:

"you hit something...this didn't happen overnight".

Well that's just not true. I rode it on a bike trail at much slower speed
than usual, apparently due to the brake pad rubbing.

it may have been slightly out of true - since the new brake pads are
bigger, you are noticing it now.

Then he tells me "it's going to take over an hour to true the wheel." (!)

not sure whether he meant spending entire 60 mins on the wheel.. because
i have the same wheels and got it trued at my LBS in about approx. 15 or
20 minutes. And i took my bike in when one of the spokes came loose -
meaning i didn't notice the wheel was out-of-true for sometime before i
took it in.

Followed by: "...and this is going to cost, b/c these wheels are hard to
true". Then he started talking about 'on the bike' versus 'off the bike',
and that I could just leave the tire? I didn't understand what he was
getting at. He said he didn't have a wheel I could borrow.

my LBS didn't charge me - infact they said i should have brought it to
them even when it was slightly out-of-true...

What irks me is that I think he realized the wheel was out of true when he
changed the tire and didn't say anything, being, perhaps, busy.

I'm just surprised that a wheel would take an hour to true. It's a typical
Trek race wheel, though with less spokes.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/City...0_FX/index.php

According to my bike log, I took the bike in on 6/16 and we discovered the
wheel needed trued, and he did it no charge in about 1/2 hour.

Am I being told the truth? sigh Sorry if I sound overly alarmed.

my first guess is may be the guy was not in a good mood. i'd give him a
second chance - but again he should have found out that the wheel was
out-of-true when installing/adjusting the new brake pads - the basic
test being to spin the wheel and see if there is uniform gap between the
wheel and the pads....

+ravi

-B

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:17:55 -0800, Ravi wrote:

Badger wrote:

I took my bike in to the shop where I purchased it yesterday to have a new
tire and tube installed, and when the mechanic looked at it after
installation to readjust the brakes (?). However, I immediately got the
feeling that something was wrong, but that he wasn't telling me what.

Today I went out on my ride and it was harder than usual. Applying the
brakes, I got a severe but intermittant 'grabbing' and it felt like I was
riding over mini-railroad ties. When I got home I looked at the wheel
closely and discovered it was rubbing the brake, and obviously no longer
'trued'.

I took it back today and was told:

"you hit something...this didn't happen overnight".

Well that's just not true. I rode it on a bike trail at much slower speed
than usual, apparently due to the brake pad rubbing.

it may have been slightly out of true - since the new brake pads are
bigger, you are noticing it now.


Didn't get new brake pads. Only got a new tire and tube. Not sure you
caught it but a mechanic at Performance looked at the tire when I got my
clipless pedals and said 'it has a shimmy. Looks to me like the bead of the
tire was not installed correctly, and is off by a little bit.' (I had
mentioned being puzzled I couldn't ride it no-hands, and he said 'no
wonder...')

Then he tells me "it's going to take over an hour to true the wheel." (!)

not sure whether he meant spending entire 60 mins on the wheel.. because
i have the same wheels and got it trued at my LBS in about approx. 15 or
20 minutes. And i took my bike in when one of the spokes came loose -
meaning i didn't notice the wheel was out-of-true for sometime before i
took it in.

He said "it's going to take me -over- an hour to true the wheel". Bear in
mind they just trued it 6/16/04 and though I've ridden it a lot, I've not
run over -anything-, zero, nada. Maybe a pebble now and then.

Followed by: "...and this is going to cost, b/c these wheels are hard to
true". Then he started talking about 'on the bike' versus 'off the bike',
and that I could just leave the tire? I didn't understand what he was
getting at. He said he didn't have a wheel I could borrow.

my LBS didn't charge me - infact they said i should have brought it to
them even when it was slightly out-of-true...

What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't like the feeling
that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me away, ostensibly so he ould
say 'oh you ran over something since I put in the new tire'.

I'd think that putting on a new tire would include balancing the wheel, but
I could be wrong on that.

What irks me is that I think he realized the wheel was out of true when he
changed the tire and didn't say anything, being, perhaps, busy.

I'm just surprised that a wheel would take an hour to true. It's a typical
Trek race wheel, though with less spokes.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/City...0_FX/index.php

According to my bike log, I took the bike in on 6/16 and we discovered the
wheel needed trued, and he did it no charge in about 1/2 hour.

Am I being told the truth? sigh Sorry if I sound overly alarmed.

my first guess is may be the guy was not in a good mood. i'd give him a
second chance - but again he should have found out that the wheel was
out-of-true when installing/adjusting the new brake pads - the basic
test being to spin the wheel and see if there is uniform gap between the
wheel and the pads....

Again, sorry if I confused you...he just put on a new tube and tire. I
mentioned it blew as I was pumping it up, and also mentioned the 'shimmy'
the other guy mentioned. This shimmy was -not- the out of true, I could
clearly see it was the rubber part that was rippled or something.


+ravi

Thanks a lot, ravi!

BTW, you're not a 'Fravia' fan are you? Thought I recognized the "+".

-B

Badger wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:17:55 -0800, Ravi wrote:

SNIP

Didn't get new brake pads. Only got a new tire and tube. Not sure you

sorry my bad. i misread your post. i know i shouldn't have stayed up so
late playing Halo 2 |-0

caught it but a mechanic at Performance looked at the tire when I got my
clipless pedals and said 'it has a shimmy. Looks to me like the bead of the
tire was not installed correctly, and is off by a little bit.' (I had
mentioned being puzzled I couldn't ride it no-hands, and he said 'no
wonder...')

SNIP


What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't like the feeling
that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me away, ostensibly so he ould
say 'oh you ran over something since I put in the new tire'.

I'd think that putting on a new tire would include balancing the wheel, but
I could be wrong on that.

not sure about that.

sorry for the misread
+ravi

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:23:30 -0800, Ravi wrote:

Badger wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:17:55 -0800, Ravi wrote:

SNIP

Didn't get new brake pads. Only got a new tire and tube. Not sure you

sorry my bad. i misread your post. i know i shouldn't have stayed up so
late playing Halo 2 |-0

caught it but a mechanic at Performance looked at the tire when I got my
clipless pedals and said 'it has a shimmy. Looks to me like the bead of the
tire was not installed correctly, and is off by a little bit.' (I had
mentioned being puzzled I couldn't ride it no-hands, and he said 'no
wonder...')

SNIP


What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't like the feeling
that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me away, ostensibly so he ould
say 'oh you ran over something since I put in the new tire'.

I'd think that putting on a new tire would include balancing the wheel, but
I could be wrong on that.

not sure about that.

sorry for the misread
+ravi

Hey, no biggie. I 'm just glad for your quick and supportive reply, Amigo.
;-)

-B

(Uh, in case you missed the 'Fravia' reference, he ran an infamous
"hacker's challenge" back in the middle 90s, and only those that won got to
put the honorary '+' in front of their online handle.)

Badger wrote:

What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
like the
feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
away,
ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
I put in
the new tire'.

Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
problem then.
Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
you wanted done.

I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
balancing the
wheel, but I could be wrong on that.

Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
end up as trash on Friday.

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:20 -0600, "Mike Kruger"
wrote:

Badger wrote:

What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
like the feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
away, ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
I put in the new tire'.

Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
problem then.
Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
you wanted done.

Yeah. My inner voice at the time was saying 'ride bike around in parking
lot...' I didn't listen, b/c I didn't fully understand the vibe of
'something's wrong' that I was picking up. Next time I'm gonna listen.


I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
balancing the
wheel, but I could be wrong on that.

Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

Yeah, but I before I took it in my braking was perfect, no 'grab' caused by
any lack of 'true'. Then the very next time I rode, the brake grabbed and
it felt like I was riding across mini-rail-road tracks, or similar to when
the ABS kicks in on your car. IOW, day 1, Wheel fine, but tire blew. Took
bike to LBS immediately. First ride after new wheel installation - brake
problem.

What bothers me immensely is that the LBS guy -let me leave knowing there
was a problem-. I fear if I had tried to ride one of my usual steep
downhills I would have had a problem braking, and who knows what else. I
think it's almost criminally irresponsible to let an innocent newbie leave
the bike shop knowing there's something wrong with the bike and not
disclosing it. Problem is how do I prove it, or object without causing
massive denial and the mechanic saying 'leave and don't come back' out of
humiliation of being caught doing poor practice. ;-(

In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
end up as trash on Friday.

Just to be clear, the difference in the braking was startling between the
time of changing the tire and the next ride. There's no doubt in my mind
something happened either when the tire blew or when he did something
prying the new tire on the wheel. After he did the install, he started
mumbling to himself, and then playing with the brake caliper adjustments.

Now just putting a new tire on the bike, istm would not require brake
caliper adjustment to the degree he was futzing about. This is what made me
think he was hiding something that he did, hoping that simply adjusting the
calipers would 'mask' the problem.

-B
Grrrrr!! ;-)

Badger wrote:
I took my bike in to the shop where I purchased it yesterday to have
a new tire and tube installed, and when the mechanic looked at it
after installation to readjust the brakes (?). However, I immediately
got the feeling that something was wrong, but that he wasn't telling
me what.

Sounds to me like you zapped your wheel out of true precisely when you
exploded the old tire and tube, this is a fairly common thing to happen
with blowoffs. I imagine it would happen more easily with lightweight, low
spoke count wheels. I would say the problems you're having are not your
mechanics fault, although he should have pointed it out and offered to
repair it the first time, like you say.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:36:48 -0500, "Jacobe Hazzard"
wrote:

Badger wrote:
I took my bike in to the shop where I purchased it yesterday to have
a new tire and tube installed, and when the mechanic looked at it
after installation to readjust the brakes (?). However, I immediately
got the feeling that something was wrong, but that he wasn't telling
me what.

Sounds to me like you zapped your wheel out of true precisely when you
exploded the old tire and tube, this is a fairly common thing to happen
with blowoffs. I imagine it would happen more easily with lightweight, low
spoke count wheels. I would say the problems you're having are not your
mechanics fault, although he should have pointed it out and offered to
repair it the first time, like you say.

OK, fair. I =told= him that it exploded off the rim and told him to look at
that and check it. Now, I'm sure he saw it and just didn't feel like fixing
it, though I'm glad he put the tire on right away.

I'm thinking I'm gonna go elsewhere. As I said it's negligent to see a
problem and not say anything and imo, unethical to send a newbie out with a
bike that has a mechanical problem. I shudder to think what would have
happened on a fast descent the way the brake was shuddering.

Uh, don't believe I said it was the mechanic's fault, though, but thanks
for the comment.

-B