Hell Ride (the Empire strikes back)

"Phillip" == Phillip Brown writes:

Phillip In addition, the penalties - in particular for going
Phillip through a red light - are disproportionate to the actual
Phillip offense. The fine used to be $20. It is now $200. Has
Phillip there been such a spate of people being killed and injured
Phillip by cyclists riding through red lights, that it is now
Phillip considered a crime an order of magnitude greater than it
Phillip was previously? Or is it just to satisfy car drivers who
Phillip think they own the roads?

Think of it another way. When a motorist says get of the road etc you
can correctly point out that you are a vehicle in the eyes of the law.
As such you have the same rights and responsibilities as all other road
users.

Kind of takes the wind out of their sails :-)
--
Regards
Euan

"Phillip Brown" wrote

The original post in this thread was about a crackdown on the hell ride by
the police in response to a 'report' on Today Tonight.

You do know that unsanctioned "road racing" is illegal?

I am merely pointing out the inconsistency and arbitrariness
of the law, and it's enforcement.

And that gives you the right to flaunt the law? Flaunt away, but don't
whinge when you get busted.

Theo

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:15:01 +0000, Hitchy wrote:


........Mr motorcycle plod was heading off the front of the bunch to get
to all the pedestrian lights before the bunch....& pushing the button to
make the lights turn Red!......Mr. pursuit vehicle plod was hanging out
the window taking digital photos of anyone who failed to stop!.......I'm
not sure what this was supposed to achieve apart from ****ing off the
'hell riders' & drawing some unsavory remarks directed at the coppers. I
dunno what the photo's will achieve either...last time I looked I didn't
have a rego plate, so I'm not sure how they plan to identify anyone.....

Could this be construed as entrapment? The motorcycle officer had no
intention of crossing at the pedestrian crossing. The only purpose of
the motorcycle officer's actions was to induce the cyclists to commit an
offense. If it were not for the direct action of the motorcycle officer,
no offense would have been committed.

--

phillip brown

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:06:17 +0800, Theo Bekkers wrote:

"Phillip Brown" wrote

The original post in this thread was about a crackdown on the hell ride
by the police in response to a 'report' on Today Tonight.

You do know that unsanctioned "road racing" is illegal?

It's a race? Who won? What was the prize?


I am merely pointing out the inconsistency and arbitrariness of the
law, and it's enforcement.

And that gives you the right to flaunt the law? Flaunt away, but don't
whinge when you get busted.

a) I do not flaunt the law any more than I 'flaunt' the pedestrian laws,
like a very large number of other pedestrians (which, in both cases, I
rarely do)

b) I do have the right to complain about the inconsistency in the
enforcement of the road laws, and the hypocrisy of those who complain
about the actions of cyclists, without applying the same standards to
pedestrians.


Theo

--

phillip brown

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:32:24 +1100
Phillip Brown wrote:
Could this be construed as entrapment? The motorcycle officer had no
intention of crossing at the pedestrian crossing. The only purpose of
the motorcycle officer's actions was to induce the cyclists to commit an
offense. If it were not for the direct action of the motorcycle officer,
no offense would have been committed.


See http://tinyurl.com/2ywde where I posted about this to aus.moto.

it quotes
OHN ANTHONY RIDGEWAY v. THE QUEEN F.C. No. 95/016 [1994] HCA 33; (1995)
129 ALR 41 (1995) 69 ALJR 484 (23 August 1994)

But, in the absence of a statutory justification, it is no defence
to a criminal charge that the accused was induced by others to
commit it. In Reg. v. Sang (199), Lord Salmon remarked that:

"A man who intends to commit a crime and actually commits it is
guilty of the offence whether or not he has been persuaded or
induced to commit it, no matter by whom."

In other words, adults are deemed to be reponsible for their own actions
unless they can prove diminished responsibility.

If what the cop did was illegal, then that doesn't make any difference
as to the status of the rider, if they broke the law, they broke the
law. If the cop also broke the law, the cop gets to stand in the dock
too.

I believe it's only entrapment when you are trapped. When you have to
do the illegal thing or something really nasty happens, like the cop
holds a gun to yor head and says "run the red light or I shoot you".

As far as I know, even though it *is* Victoria, that didn't happen...

Zebee
--
Zebee Johnstone ), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

Herald Sun article 26/3/0

My hell ride on drugs http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_pag
e/0,5478,9076390%255E14520,00.htm

The title is mildly amusing from a Melbourne perspective, but th
article itself is far from funny

Melbourne cyclists tend to be more sensible, most of us stick t
caffeine


-

cfsmtb wrote in message

Herald Sun article 26/3/04

My hell ride on drugs
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_pag-
e/0,5478,9076390%255E14520,00.html

Those who want a link that works can use this:
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...E14520,00.html.

--

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

Originally posted by cfsmtb Herald Sun article 26/3/04 My hel
ride on drug

More Manzano
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ar04/mar24news

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...mar04/mar25new

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ar04/mar25news

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...mar04/mar26new

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ar04/mar26news

hipp


-

"Theo Bekkers" writes:

"? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}" wrote

[...]

Wouldn't kentic energy be a fairer mesurment of harm causing
ability?

Yes certainly. Is that not related to mass?

Its half the mass times the velocity squared. i.e 0.5 m v^2
And since the stopping distence is proportional to v^2 as well, it
seems to me a sensable mesure of unsafeness.

--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.

"? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}" wrote
"Theo Bekkers" writes:
"? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}" wrote

Wouldn't kentic energy be a fairer mesurment of harm causing
ability?

Yes certainly. Is that not related to mass?

Its half the mass times the velocity squared. i.e 0.5 m v^2
And since the stopping distence is proportional to v^2 as well, it
seems to me a sensable mesure of unsafeness.

Hmm, so my motorcycle at 300 kg including myself is as safe at 135
km/h as a 1500 kg Commodore at 60 km/h. And 90 km/h (30 km/h over a 60
limit) for the car equates to me doing 210 km/h on the motorcycle.
Sounds safe to me.

Theo