V-brake balancing screws.

wrote in message
...
SMALL SCREW Snot 5's ....3's ?


http://goo.gl/oF2rDK....buy a universal plastic gauge when there....and
all nuts from M1 to M8 in most common thread sizes. Stick nuts on a
tape..ducktape? and place on wall or stick it in your XXXXXX yuh yuh yuh..

then after the experience of taking the screw into the hardware store,
going to the nut bins n screwing your fastener in to what ? a likely
looking sized nut....UREKA ! buy 5. with 2 nuts/4 washers/2 interior
fanged lock rings.

I always buy 10...easy math.

The fasteners place has a £5 minimum order - that usually means a bag of
some description full of screws

"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
...
On 3/29/2015 7:46 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2015 5:01 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Never understood screws with
a bi slotted head, as you call it. They also use them for the limit
screws
of derailleurs. You have to be careful nit to damaged he heads because
no
screwdriver fits properly.

I assume the idea is that any screwdriver will fit, at least
half-assedly. And derailleur limit screws require very little torque,
meaning precise fit isn't important. So the guy who's shifting is
bunged
up has a chance of fixing it with whatever's in his tool bag.

Stupid concept. Slotted headscrews are or should be extinct for decades.
Why keep them alive. I would not mind if they would use torx screws for
all
the fasteners on a bike.

:-) Well, Lou, you can work on outlawing slotted screws.

I have no doubt that Torx have advantages over hex or Allen,

Like filling up with road grime and/or corroding.

"Tosspot" wrote in message
...
On 28/03/15 21:03, Lou Holtman wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2015 1:11 PM, Ian Field wrote:
Can I take those screws all the way out without anything
going twang?

The (allegedly) universal screw heads are pretty much
useless for either flat or crosspoint screwdriver. The plan
is to pull up outside the tools & fasteners shop, whip one
of the screws out to show at the counter and ask for same
everything except for what I buy to have socket cap heads.

Can I do that without the tension spring slipping out of
place - or do I have to wait till I have the pivot/spring
assembly apart?

Thanks for any help.

No reason not to. 4mm allen cap screws might be nice and they are
readily
available. Nothing will break or slip with the screws out.

4 mm? Are you sure? Mine are ordinary M3 screws. Head style doesn't
matter.

Istr mine were M3 as well.

Found the pack of "Toolbox" assorted screws I got from Ponundland - it has
M4 & M5 in assorted lengths.

M4 fits my calliper, and I found a length only a tiny smidge longer than the
original.

They have normal Philips heads so its all a lot less urgent now - I can nip
in the fasteners place for a bag of socket-caps whenever I happen to be
passing.

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 14:27:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

No reason not to. 4mm allen cap screws might be nice and
they are readily available. Nothing will break or slip with
the screws out.

If there's room, you might look into adding a plastic knob onto the
cap screw:
http://www.shear-loc.com/knobs.htm
I originally used these knobs in various marine radio designs, but
have since used them whenever I needed a no-tools removable screw. I
have a few knobs attached to various bolts on my bicycles where I want
to play with the adjustment, but don't want to carry a tool kit.
http://www.shear-loc.com/m5thumbscrew.htm (M5)
http://www.shear-loc.com/m4thumbscrew.htm (M4)
Most hardware stores carry them and they can be found on eBay and
Amazon.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:46:10 +0200, Lou Holtman
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2015 5:01 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Never understood screws with
a bi slotted head, as you call it. They also use them for the limit screws
of derailleurs. You have to be careful nit to damaged he heads because no
screwdriver fits properly.

I assume the idea is that any screwdriver will fit, at least
half-assedly. And derailleur limit screws require very little torque,
meaning precise fit isn't important. So the guy who's shifting is bunged
up has a chance of fixing it with whatever's in his tool bag.

Stupid concept. Slotted headscrews are or should be extinct for decades.
Why keep them alive. I would not mind if they would use torx screws for all
the fasteners on a bike.

Ah, but you fail to see the advantage of universal screw heads. Since
none of them offer a really good fit for driver tools, the driver will
slip when over-torqued, thus providing a built in torque limiter. Were
the adjustment screws replaced with Torx head screws, it would be
possible to strip out the threads from the soft aluminum body. One
might also break off the head from small diameter bolts if the threads
were frozen.

The way the over-torque problem is to use shallow depth allen head or
Torx screw heads. Something like this:
http://images.gasgoo.com/MiMgIzA2MTQ5NDEwMA--/auto-part-torx-with-slot-self-tapping-screw-b-type.jpg
There's not enough grip area to do any major damage, but enough to get
the screw in and out. I don't think those types of screws are
available in M3 or M4 sizes. Notice the "crater" on the above screw
head. It's there to give the grease, dirt, and filth a place to go
when the driver is inserted.

The universal head also has the advantage of not collecting dirt and
filth. With a sloppy fit, the driver pushed the dirt out of the screw
head and not into the screw head, as it might with a Torx screw head.
It's bad enough getting the dirt out of an Allen screw head. Torx is
even more difficult and usually requires a paper clip.

Of course, Dr Who's sonic screwdriver will work with any type of screw
head or door lock.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:46:10 +0200, Lou Holtman
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2015 5:01 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Never understood screws with
a bi slotted head, as you call it. They also use them for the limit screws
of derailleurs. You have to be careful nit to damaged he heads because no
screwdriver fits properly.

I assume the idea is that any screwdriver will fit, at least
half-assedly. And derailleur limit screws require very little torque,
meaning precise fit isn't important. So the guy who's shifting is bunged
up has a chance of fixing it with whatever's in his tool bag.

Stupid concept. Slotted headscrews are or should be extinct for decades.
Why keep them alive. I would not mind if they would use torx screws for all
the fasteners on a bike.

Ah, but you fail to see the advantage of universal screw heads. Since
none of them offer a really good fit for driver tools, the driver will
slip when over-torqued, thus providing a built in torque limiter. Were
the adjustment screws replaced with Torx head screws, it would be
possible to strip out the threads from the soft aluminum body. One
might also break off the head from small diameter bolts if the threads
were frozen.

The way the over-torque problem is to use shallow depth allen head or
Torx screw heads. Something like this:
http://images.gasgoo.com/MiMgIzA2MTQ5NDEwMA--/auto-part-torx-with-slot-self-tapping-screw-b-type.jpg
There's not enough grip area to do any major damage, but enough to get
the screw in and out. I don't think those types of screws are
available in M3 or M4 sizes. Notice the "crater" on the above screw
head. It's there to give the grease, dirt, and filth a place to go
when the driver is inserted.

The universal head also has the advantage of not collecting dirt and
filth. With a sloppy fit, the driver pushed the dirt out of the screw
head and not into the screw head, as it might with a Torx screw head.
It's bad enough getting the dirt out of an Allen screw head. Torx is
even more difficult and usually requires a paper clip.

Of course, Dr Who's sonic screwdriver will work with any type of screw
head or door lock.

Collecting dirt? Over torque a limit screw or a balacing screw? Give me a
break.

--
Lou

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 2:02:41 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
...
On 3/29/2015 7:46 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2015 5:01 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Never understood screws with
a bi slotted head, as you call it. They also use them for the limit
screws
of derailleurs. You have to be careful nit to damaged he heads because
no
screwdriver fits properly.

I assume the idea is that any screwdriver will fit, at least
half-assedly. And derailleur limit screws require very little torque,
meaning precise fit isn't important. So the guy who's shifting is
bunged
up has a chance of fixing it with whatever's in his tool bag.

Stupid concept. Slotted headscrews are or should be extinct for decades.
Why keep them alive. I would not mind if they would use torx screws for
all
the fasteners on a bike.

:-) Well, Lou, you can work on outlawing slotted screws.

I have no doubt that Torx have advantages over hex or Allen,

Like filling up with road grime and/or corroding.

linseed oil

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 2:08:18 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"Tosspot" wrote in message
...
On 28/03/15 21:03, Lou Holtman wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2015 1:11 PM, Ian Field wrote:
Can I take those screws all the way out without anything
going twang?

The (allegedly) universal screw heads are pretty much
useless for either flat or crosspoint screwdriver. The plan
is to pull up outside the tools & fasteners shop, whip one
of the screws out to show at the counter and ask for same
everything except for what I buy to have socket cap heads.

Can I do that without the tension spring slipping out of
place - or do I have to wait till I have the pivot/spring
assembly apart?

Thanks for any help.

No reason not to. 4mm allen cap screws might be nice and they are
readily
available. Nothing will break or slip with the screws out.

4 mm? Are you sure? Mine are ordinary M3 screws. Head style doesn't
matter.

Istr mine were M3 as well.

Found the pack of "Toolbox" assorted screws I got from Ponundland - it has
M4 & M5 in assorted lengths.

M4 fits my calliper, and I found a length only a tiny smidge longer than the
original.

They have normal Philips heads so its all a lot less urgent now - I can nip
in the fasteners place for a bag of socket-caps whenever I happen to be
passing.

WTH are you in the Orkney's ?

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 21:23:49 +0200, Lou Holtman
wrote:

Collecting dirt? Over torque a limit screw or a balacing screw? Give me a
break.

Sure... take a break.

By coincidence, a friend just called asking for help removing some
deck screws. His vision is marginal, so he didn't see or clean the
dirt out of the screw head. Paper clip and paint brush cleared the
hole and out came the screw.

Anyone posting in a bicycle technology newsgroup can be assumed to
have some degree of mechanical dexterity. That's a basic requirement
for maintaining a bicycle. However, the ability to use tools
effectively is not a universal trait as many riders lack the ability
to make even simple adjustments. A friend, who taught me most of what
I know about Unix, is a good example. His father was an automobile
mechanic and did not want his son to follow in his footsteps. Every
time the kid picked up a tool, his father would take it away. When he
grew up, his son literally could not operate a screwdriver or even a
hammer. I tried to teach him, but failed. Apparently, one needs to
learn how to use tools early in life, as later will be too late.

There are castes and classes in the world where getting your hands
dirty is not becoming of their members. They have servants to do such
things. In the late 1960's, I went to college with some shining
examples of this. We had a large contingent of upper class Persian
(from Iran) foreign exchange students who had never operated a machine
more complicated than a door knob. Most could not drive a car or
possibly operate a bicycle. In the various college shops and labs,
they were a serious hazard to themselves and others. While this is an
extreme example of mechanical inability, there are people of all
levels of mechanical abilities that must be accommodated in the design
of a bicycle.

Bicycles are designed for owners of varying abilities. Department
store bicycles tend to be designed for riders with limited mechanical
skills. High end bicycles tend to be for compulsive tinkerers with
access to tools, own measuring equipment, and have the relevant
skills. An adjustment screw that self limits applied torque may have
been an innovation intended for low end bicycles that somehow snuck
into higher end components. I don't know but it seems like a good
idea on a small M3 screw for a department store bicycle, but as you
suggest, might be un-necessary on a higher end machine.

Resistance to collecting dirt may be a stretch, but suspect it might
have been an unintended benefit of the sloppy screw head design. The
common M5 Allen head screw is fairly easy to clean. An M3 Allen head,
not so easy.

Ok, break is over.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 21:23:49 +0200, Lou Holtman
wrote:

Collecting dirt? Over torque a limit screw or a balacing screw? Give me a
break.

Sure... take a break.

By coincidence, a friend just called asking for help removing some
deck screws. His vision is marginal, so he didn't see or clean the
dirt out of the screw head. Paper clip and paint brush cleared the
hole and out came the screw.

For socket head screws - I've found those ball-end allen keys handy for
breaking up corrosion.

The ball end will often go in when the other end won't, a bit of swivelling
it around breaks up the corrosion and then the flush end usually goes right
in.