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#51
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Coaster Brake Failure
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 6:19:03 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:17:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot. If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. -- Cheers, John B. I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $. To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad. On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike. Cheers It's been a few (more than a few) years but when I had a 7 speed with 2 chain rings I can't remember ever feeling that I needed more.I can see the possibility of someone who raced wanting very close spaced gears but for the average Joe I really doubt that they would average any faster on, say a 2 hour ride, with a seven speed as opposed to a 9 or ten speed. As far as cassettes go, I did the same thing on my "Bangkok bike". Bangkok is built on an alluvial plain and there might be one tooth difference in riding north as apposed to riding south and the only hills are bridges. On a 20 km ride I might shift once. I built a 13 - 25 cassette as you did out of a bunch of loose cogs. With 50-42 chain rings I've never wanted for more. -- Cheers, John B. it would not surprise me to see the next great thing in bicycling being an internally geared bottom bracket. Then you could have the equivalent of at least three or four chainrings with nothing exposed. You know, it's be interesting to calculate the gear jumps on that 13 speed cluster and then compare those with the jumps on a 7 or 8 speed cluster. Cheers "Internally geared bottom bracket"? You mean, like a Schlumpf drive? http://www.schlumpfdrive.com/index.php/home-en.html |
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#52
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Coaster Brake Failure
On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace what I have on any bike. Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are 1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the derailleur is in a more constant position. Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui... But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their action is so much better than Baldwins." Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#53
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Coaster Brake Failure
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace what I have on any bike. Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are 1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the derailleur is in a more constant position. Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui... But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their action is so much better than Baldwins." Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach. On a rear derailleur, the shifting occurs on the untensioned part of the chain, while the front derailleur has to shift the tensioned part of the chain. Therefore front shifting will always be worse than rear shifting. That's what a 1x system aims for. However, the front shifting on my 3x9 system, while worse than the rear, is still "good enough", and in return I get a wide hearing range. |
#54
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 11:27:17 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 6:19:03 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:17:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot. If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. -- Cheers, John B. I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $. To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad. On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike. Cheers It's been a few (more than a few) years but when I had a 7 speed with 2 chain rings I can't remember ever feeling that I needed more.I can see the possibility of someone who raced wanting very close spaced gears but for the average Joe I really doubt that they would average any faster on, say a 2 hour ride, with a seven speed as opposed to a 9 or ten speed. As far as cassettes go, I did the same thing on my "Bangkok bike". Bangkok is built on an alluvial plain and there might be one tooth difference in riding north as apposed to riding south and the only hills are bridges. On a 20 km ride I might shift once. I built a 13 - 25 cassette as you did out of a bunch of loose cogs. With 50-42 chain rings I've never wanted for more. -- Cheers, John B. it would not surprise me to see the next great thing in bicycling being an internally geared bottom bracket. Then you could have the equivalent of at least three or four chainrings with nothing exposed. You know, it's be interesting to calculate the gear jumps on that 13 speed cluster and then compare those with the jumps on a 7 or 8 speed cluster. Cheers "Internally geared bottom bracket"? You mean, like a Schlumpf drive? http://www.schlumpfdrive.com/index.php/home-en.html I wonder what would happen if you coupled that with the 13 rear cogs system mentioned upthread? Cheers |
#55
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:40:38 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace what I have on any bike. Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are 1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the derailleur is in a more constant position. Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui... But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their action is so much better than Baldwins." Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach. On a rear derailleur, the shifting occurs on the untensioned part of the chain, while the front derailleur has to shift the tensioned part of the chain. Therefore front shifting will always be worse than rear shifting. That's what a 1x system aims for. However, the front shifting on my 3x9 system, while worse than the rear, is still "good enough", and in return I get a wide hearing range. The indexing of the front derailleur is what is all screwed up. A hydraulic front shifter could be arranged to be a lot better and gain alignments as accurate as the old friction shifting. |
#56
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:51:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:40:38 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace what I have on any bike. Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are 1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the derailleur is in a more constant position. Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui... But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their action is so much better than Baldwins." Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach. On a rear derailleur, the shifting occurs on the untensioned part of the chain, while the front derailleur has to shift the tensioned part of the chain. Therefore front shifting will always be worse than rear shifting.. That's what a 1x system aims for. However, the front shifting on my 3x9 system, while worse than the rear, is still "good enough", and in return I get a wide hearing range. The indexing of the front derailleur is what is all screwed up. A hydraulic front shifter could be arranged to be a lot better and gain alignments as accurate as the old friction shifting. Di2 takes care of that by automatically trimming the FD. FD shifting is one of the big selling points of Di2. What I don't like is the lock-out of the last two cogs while on the small ring which, AFAIK, cannot be overridden by the consumer. Those are usable cogs on my cable shift bikes. The FD also will not shift down if you are in the last two cogs in the big ring. -- Jay Beattie. |
#57
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Coaster Brake Failure
On 3/1/2019 11:49 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 11:27:17 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 6:19:03 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:17:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot. If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. -- Cheers, John B. I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $. To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad. On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike. Cheers It's been a few (more than a few) years but when I had a 7 speed with 2 chain rings I can't remember ever feeling that I needed more.I can see the possibility of someone who raced wanting very close spaced gears but for the average Joe I really doubt that they would average any faster on, say a 2 hour ride, with a seven speed as opposed to a 9 or ten speed. As far as cassettes go, I did the same thing on my "Bangkok bike". Bangkok is built on an alluvial plain and there might be one tooth difference in riding north as apposed to riding south and the only hills are bridges. On a 20 km ride I might shift once. I built a 13 - 25 cassette as you did out of a bunch of loose cogs. With 50-42 chain rings I've never wanted for more. -- Cheers, John B. it would not surprise me to see the next great thing in bicycling being an internally geared bottom bracket. Then you could have the equivalent of at least three or four chainrings with nothing exposed. You know, it's be interesting to calculate the gear jumps on that 13 speed cluster and then compare those with the jumps on a 7 or 8 speed cluster. Cheers "Internally geared bottom bracket"? You mean, like a Schlumpf drive? http://www.schlumpfdrive.com/index.php/home-en.html I wonder what would happen if you coupled that with the 13 rear cogs system mentioned upthread? Cheers I would still prefer my fixie for most rides. YMMV. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#58
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Coaster Brake Failure
Frank Krygowski writes:
On 2/28/2019 7:49 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it Â* anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Well, for me it's been rare, but it's happened maybe three times. It's why my touring bike has a spare rear derailleur cable in among its tools. The worst event was on an 80 mile, super-hilly ride I used to lead. My cable snapped at the shifter just as I was starting the toughest climb. I did make it to the top, then pulled over to change the cable. I found to my dismay that my spare cable was too short. (My touring bike has a long wheelbase, and I run the cables from the bar-end shifters under the handlebar tape. I need a cable longer than 73".) So I decided to run the new cable from the shifter, and tie it to the remains of the old cable, knotting it along the down tube. That's when I found that it's about impossible to tie two cables together using knots. I eventually did it, but my friends had to wait 20 minutes or more. Do you remember how you knotted it? I wonder if there is a recommendable knot for small twisted steel cables -- fisherman's bend? -- |
#59
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 7:10:32 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:51:53 AM UTC-8, wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:40:38 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace what I have on any bike. Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are 1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the derailleur is in a more constant position. Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui... But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their action is so much better than Baldwins." Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach. On a rear derailleur, the shifting occurs on the untensioned part of the chain, while the front derailleur has to shift the tensioned part of the chain. Therefore front shifting will always be worse than rear shifting. That's what a 1x system aims for. However, the front shifting on my 3x9 system, while worse than the rear, is still "good enough", and in return I get a wide hearing range. The indexing of the front derailleur is what is all screwed up. A hydraulic front shifter could be arranged to be a lot better and gain alignments as accurate as the old friction shifting. Di2 takes care of that by automatically trimming the FD. FD shifting is one of the big selling points of Di2. What I don't like is the lock-out of the last two cogs while on the small ring which, AFAIK, cannot be overridden by the consumer. Those are usable cogs on my cable shift bikes. The FD also will not shift down if you are in the last two cogs in the big ring. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, on my cross bike with a 2014 Di2 Ultegra setup I can shift any combination. On my road bike with a 2018 Di2 DA setup I encounter the behavior you describe, but IIRC you can overrule this software setting. I think this is a useful setting though. Lou |
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Coaster Brake Failure
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 11:27:17 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 6:19:03 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:17:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot. If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Plus it's not expensive at all. From the linked page: "A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels." A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me. $415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL Cheers BUT! It's NEW! Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27 speeds at a much, much lower price. The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed. -- Cheers, John B. I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $. To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad. On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike. Cheers It's been a few (more than a few) years but when I had a 7 speed with 2 chain rings I can't remember ever feeling that I needed more.I can see the possibility of someone who raced wanting very close spaced gears but for the average Joe I really doubt that they would average any faster on, say a 2 hour ride, with a seven speed as opposed to a 9 or ten speed. As far as cassettes go, I did the same thing on my "Bangkok bike". Bangkok is built on an alluvial plain and there might be one tooth difference in riding north as apposed to riding south and the only hills are bridges. On a 20 km ride I might shift once. I built a 13 - 25 cassette as you did out of a bunch of loose cogs. With 50-42 chain rings I've never wanted for more. -- Cheers, John B. it would not surprise me to see the next great thing in bicycling being an internally geared bottom bracket. Then you could have the equivalent of at least three or four chainrings with nothing exposed. You know, it's be interesting to calculate the gear jumps on that 13 speed cluster and then compare those with the jumps on a 7 or 8 speed cluster. Cheers "Internally geared bottom bracket"? You mean, like a Schlumpf drive? http://www.schlumpfdrive.com/index.php/home-en.html I wonder what would happen if you coupled that with the 13 rear cogs system mentioned upthread? Cheers Bah. Go big or go home. SRAM makes a three speed IGH that will also accept a 9 speed cassette. Use that on the back and a three speed front derailleur with a Schlumpf drive up front. Then add computer control because you'll never figure out which of the four shift mechanisms you should be using at any given time. |
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