Coaster Brake Failure

On 3/1/2019 5:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 10:10:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

I would still prefer my fixie for most rides. YMMV.


OK, now we know you ride on the flats and have a weight problem...….


No mountains here and I'm 5'10", 150~155lbs.

I'm 5'9" and about 30 pounds jealous.

A fixie is almost the only type of bike I haven't ridden. (My kid has,
though, on Portland's Alpenrose velodrome. I'm jealous of that, too.)

Andrew, how flat is it where you use the fixie? What gradients do you
have to deal with? And do you have caliper brake(s) fitted?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/1/2019 5:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 5:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 10:10:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

I would still prefer my fixie for most rides. YMMV.


OK, now we know you ride on the flats and have a weight
problem...….


No mountains here and I'm 5'10", 150~155lbs.

I'm 5'9" and about 30 pounds jealous.

A fixie is almost the only type of bike I haven't ridden.
(My kid has, though, on Portland's Alpenrose velodrome. I'm
jealous of that, too.)

Andrew, how flat is it where you use the fixie? What
gradients do you have to deal with? And do you have caliper
brake(s) fitted?


Yes of course. A front brake is prudent, even necessary on
public roads.

Small hills, nothing too daunting and I'm geared
appropriately low-ish. For 'most rides' read 'daily utility
use' and of course I own a couple other bikes for
recreational riding.

But when I built this 25 or so years ago I only expected to
get through a winter's salt without ruining the bikes I
loved. Turns out simplicity has actual value. For me anyway.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/1/2019 2:01 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 2/28/2019 7:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
Â* anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock.

Well, for me it's been rare, but it's happened maybe three times. It's
why my touring bike has a spare rear derailleur cable in among its
tools.

The worst event was on an 80 mile, super-hilly ride I used to lead. My
cable snapped at the shifter just as I was starting the toughest
climb. I did make it to the top, then pulled over to change the
cable. I found to my dismay that my spare cable was too short. (My
touring bike has a long wheelbase, and I run the cables from the
bar-end shifters under the handlebar tape. I need a cable longer than
73".)

So I decided to run the new cable from the shifter, and tie it to the
remains of the old cable, knotting it along the down tube. That's when
I found that it's about impossible to tie two cables together using
knots. I eventually did it, but my friends had to wait 20 minutes or
more.

Do you remember how you knotted it? I wonder if there is a recommendable
knot for small twisted steel cables -- fisherman's bend?

All I remember about the resulting knot was that it was big and ugly,
more of a tangle than a knot. ISTR mis-using some tool as a crude set of
pliers to get some help. I couldn't do it with bare hands.

It made it really worthwhile to carry a spare cable that was long
enough. I buy tandem length cables for that bike.

I've also taken to installing the cable extra long, leaving a loop at
the derailleur end. There was one time I was able to loosen the cable at
the derailleur, feed some excess through the (friction) shifter, and use
a knot to replace the end ball, or whatever you call that thing on the
end of the cable. I then tightened the derailleur's cable clamp again
and had shifting. That knot only has to be a half hitch.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 3:41:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 5:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 10:10:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

I would still prefer my fixie for most rides. YMMV.


OK, now we know you ride on the flats and have a weight problem...….


No mountains here and I'm 5'10", 150~155lbs.

I'm 5'9" and about 30 pounds jealous.

A fixie is almost the only type of bike I haven't ridden. (My kid has,
though, on Portland's Alpenrose velodrome. I'm jealous of that, too.)

Andrew, how flat is it where you use the fixie? What gradients do you
have to deal with? And do you have caliper brake(s) fitted?


For those watching at home, this is Alpenrose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnEY_xHtXRI Steep banks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8eVHE1kcuU

It's not far from my house, and I rode over there on my track bike for an event and picked up something in my tire and flatted on the turn and fell down the bank. Civilians are allowed on the track when there are no events, so you can go over there and ride around on your road bike. They fixed the transitions about 20 some-odd years ago, but before that happened, you could basically ski jump off the top of the bank coming out of the turn. You can also go rent a fixie on event nights.

-- Jay Beattie.

AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 2:38 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:51:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:40:38 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors,
and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks,
chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for
the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 /
334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing
Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the
chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's
bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace
what I have on any bike.

Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are
1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front
doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the
chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the
derailleur is in a more constant position.

Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding
aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui...

But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into
diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better
shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their
action is so much better than Baldwins."

Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach.


On a rear derailleur, the shifting occurs on the untensioned part of the
chain, while the front derailleur has to shift the tensioned part of the
chain. Therefore front shifting will always be worse than rear shifting.
That's what a 1x system aims for. However, the front shifting on my 3x9
system, while worse than the rear, is still "good enough", and in return I
get a wide hearing range.

The indexing of the front derailleur is what is all screwed up. A
hydraulic front shifter could be arranged to be a lot better and gain
alignments as accurate as the old friction shifting.

Di2 takes care of that by automatically trimming the FD. FD shifting is
one of the big selling points of Di2. What I don't like is the lock-out
of the last two cogs while on the small ring which, AFAIK, cannot be
overridden by the consumer. Those are usable cogs on my cable shift
bikes. The FD also will not shift down if you are in the last two cogs in the big ring.


I've always thought that it would not be difficult to build a mechanism
that clamps onto the rear derailleur shift cable and uses the rear gear
selection to trim the front derailleur. You don't need a CPU to pull off
that trick.

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...3-2787beac2bb0




Brilliant, just freaking brilliant.

On 3/1/2019 9:03 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 2:38 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:51:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:40:38 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors,
and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks,
chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for
the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 /
334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing
Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the
chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's
bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace
what I have on any bike.

Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are
1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front
doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the
chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the
derailleur is in a more constant position.

Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding
aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui...

But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into
diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better
shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their
action is so much better than Baldwins."

Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach.


On a rear derailleur, the shifting occurs on the untensioned part of the
chain, while the front derailleur has to shift the tensioned part of the
chain. Therefore front shifting will always be worse than rear shifting.
That's what a 1x system aims for. However, the front shifting on my 3x9
system, while worse than the rear, is still "good enough", and in return I
get a wide hearing range.

The indexing of the front derailleur is what is all screwed up. A
hydraulic front shifter could be arranged to be a lot better and gain
alignments as accurate as the old friction shifting.

Di2 takes care of that by automatically trimming the FD. FD shifting is
one of the big selling points of Di2. What I don't like is the lock-out
of the last two cogs while on the small ring which, AFAIK, cannot be
overridden by the consumer. Those are usable cogs on my cable shift
bikes. The FD also will not shift down if you are in the last two cogs in the big ring.


I've always thought that it would not be difficult to build a mechanism
that clamps onto the rear derailleur shift cable and uses the rear gear
selection to trim the front derailleur. You don't need a CPU to pull off
that trick.

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...3-2787beac2bb0




Brilliant, just freaking brilliant.


Yes Junzo Kawai was that one-in-a-million guy.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/inte...4#.XHn4Ekq99PI

He was a 15-year old Kamikaze trainee when the war ended.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/1/19 2:05 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

snip

it would not surprise me to see the next great thing in bicycling
being an internally geared bottom bracket. Then you could have the
equivalent of at least three or four chainrings with nothing
exposed.

You know, it's be interesting to calculate the gear jumps on that 13
speed cluster and then compare those with the jumps on a 7 or 8 speed
cluster.

Buy one now

https://pinion.eu/en/

Mated to a Rohloff should give you options from cliff-to-freefall.

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 10:03:53 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 2:38 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:51:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:40:38 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 4:12 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors,
and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks,
chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for
the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 /
334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing
Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the
chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

I've only ridden a modern 1x gear train one time, borrowing a friend's
bike. It worked fine, but nothing so amazing as to want me to replace
what I have on any bike.

Please correct me if necessary, but as I understand it, the benefits are
1) you don't have to think about shifting the front, because the front
doesn't shift; and 2) the shifts are a little bit better because the
chain slack doesn't change from big ring to small ring, so the
derailleur is in a more constant position.

Beyond those two, there might be microscopic benefits regarding
aerodynamics, weight, and maybe feng shui...

But I think this all shows how deep the bicycling world has sunk into
diminishing returns. Those who are entranced by the slightly better
shifting seem like pianists who say "I play only on Steinways, their
action is so much better than Baldwins."

Sheesh! It's a bicycle! You're shifting gears, not playing Bach.


On a rear derailleur, the shifting occurs on the untensioned part of the
chain, while the front derailleur has to shift the tensioned part of the
chain. Therefore front shifting will always be worse than rear shifting.
That's what a 1x system aims for. However, the front shifting on my 3x9
system, while worse than the rear, is still "good enough", and in return I
get a wide hearing range.

The indexing of the front derailleur is what is all screwed up. A
hydraulic front shifter could be arranged to be a lot better and gain
alignments as accurate as the old friction shifting.

Di2 takes care of that by automatically trimming the FD. FD shifting is
one of the big selling points of Di2. What I don't like is the lock-out
of the last two cogs while on the small ring which, AFAIK, cannot be
overridden by the consumer. Those are usable cogs on my cable shift
bikes. The FD also will not shift down if you are in the last two cogs in the big ring.


I've always thought that it would not be difficult to build a mechanism
that clamps onto the rear derailleur shift cable and uses the rear gear
selection to trim the front derailleur. You don't need a CPU to pull off
that trick.

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...3-2787beac2bb0




Brilliant, just freaking brilliant.

The inside of those shifters is pretty simple too = basically just a cam and recess.

Cheers

On Sat, 02 Mar 2019 06:00:32 +0700,
John B Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 01 Mar 2019 12:10:42 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 11:49 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I wonder what would happen if you coupled that with the 13
rear cogs system mentioned upthread?

I would still prefer my fixie for most rides. YMMV.

You should live where I live. It is almost exactly 1 kilometer
down hill to get to the main road of the village and, of
course, one kilometer back up the hill to go home. And it is
steep enough to be on the small chain ring and the large
cassette cog most of the way up.

"I've never met a hill I couldn't walk up."

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Fri, 01 Mar 2019 17:51:31 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 5:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 5:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2019 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 10:10:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

I would still prefer my fixie for most rides. YMMV.

I was inspired by the late, great Sheldon Brown to set up a fixed
gear from my old Schwinn Le Tour IV after I got a nice road bike
some 20 years ago. After about five years, I got a low priced
pseudo track bike, and put road bars on it. It's a lot of fun to
ride, and I enjoy it a great deal--though there are hills I don't
try with it. I do find it gets a bit uncomfortable on rides
longer than an hour or two--probably due to no coasting, so less
time out of the saddle.

For a couple of years, I used my fixie to get to and from work;
about a 10 mile ride each way. I now live just over a mile away,
which I find too short to mess with bike clothing and stowage.


OK, now we know you ride on the flats and have a weight
problem...???????.

No mountains here and I'm 5'10", 150~155lbs.

I'm 5'9" and about 30 pounds jealous.

A fixie is almost the only type of bike I haven't ridden. (My
kid has, though, on Portland's Alpenrose velodrome. I'm
jealous of that, too.)

Andrew, how flat is it where you use the fixie? What gradients
do you have to deal with? And do you have caliper brake(s)
fitted?

Yes of course. A front brake is prudent, even necessary on
public roads.

Totally agree. I've never figured out how to do the messenger
style stopping (unweight rear wheel, lock legs, skid), so there's
no way I'd ride without the front brake. My understanding is a
brake is wise even if you can do the messenger stop.


Small hills, nothing too daunting and I'm geared appropriately
low-ish. For 'most rides' read 'daily utility use' and of
course I own a couple other bikes for recreational riding.

But when I built this 25 or so years ago I only expected to get
through a winter's salt without ruining the bikes I loved.
Turns out simplicity has actual value. For me anyway.

Sheldon said it well:

...you will discover a new joy in cycling. When you ride a fixed
gear, you feel a closer communion with your bike and with the
road. There is a purity and simplicity to the fixed-gear bicycle
that can be quite seductive.


--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA