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spoke breakage at nipple side
I've got some 14/15/14 double butted spokes laced to a chorus rear hub
and a Ritchey Aero OCR rim. I've broken two spokes since building the wheel (about 2 thousand miles) and I've looked into it. It seems that the spoke nipples are perpendicular to the rim, while the spokes enter the rim at an angle (obviously). The end of the spoke nipple is touching the outside of the spoke and the two spokes have broken where the tread stops. The non-drive side are the ones breaking. I'm pretty sure I have the spokes going to the proper hole in the rim as the drive side looks fine. The spokes entering from the non-drive side that are crossing on the outside have a distinct angle change between the spoke and the nipple. Why? Should I remove the 8 spokes that are outside-crossing on the non-drive side and drill the rim such that the nipple will be able to angle towards the spokes? Anything else I might be doing wrong? |
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spoke breakage at nipple side
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#3
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spoke breakage at nipple side
There are no ferrules on the Ritchey Aero OCR rim, by the way.
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spoke breakage at nipple side
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spoke breakage at nipple side
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spoke breakage at nipple side
Zog The Undeniable wrote:
If this doesn't happen, Jobst's book suggests deliberately bending the spokes at the nipple during building to cold-set them and prevent any movement in use, which can lead to fatigue. Interesting. The OP said that the spokes were on the non-drive side. I don't see how it could be tensioned enough to prevent movement because of the dish. |
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spoke breakage at nipple side
anonymous writes:
If this doesn't happen, Jobst's book suggests deliberately bending the spokes at the nipple during building to cold-set them and prevent any movement in use, which can lead to fatigue. Interesting. The OP said that the spokes were on the non-drive side. I don't see how it could be tensioned enough to prevent movement because of the dish. Left rear spokes generally have a greater lateral angle than right side spokes and because spokes do not break from tension (it causing stresses far below yield), but rather residual stress overlayed on even moderate tension, these spokes most often fail on a wheel that has not been stress relieved. This occurs both at elbows and threads because both places receive bending during lacing and subsequent tensioning that reaches and maintains yield stress. Residual stress is the basic cause of spoke failure in bicycle wheels. Jobst Brandt |
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spoke breakage at nipple side
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#9
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spoke breakage at nipple side
anonymous writes:
If this doesn't happen, Jobst's book suggests deliberately bending the spokes at the nipple during building to cold-set them and prevent any movement in use, which can lead to fatigue. Interesting. The OP said that the spokes were on the non-drive side. I don't see how it could be tensioned enough to prevent movement because of the dish. Left rear spokes generally have a greater lateral angle than right side spokes and because spokes do not break from tension (it causing stresses far below yield), but rather residual stress overlayed on even moderate tension, these spokes most often fail on a wheel that has not been stress relieved. This occurs both at elbows and threads because both places receive bending during lacing and subsequent tensioning that reaches and maintains yield stress. Residual stress is the basic cause of spoke failure in bicycle wheels. Maybe, but in my case I did stress relieve the wheels to the best of my ability, which involved using my heavy padded motorcycle gloves with the rivets on the palm to squeeze the spoke pairs together with just about all my strength, repeated until the process didn't change the truing of the wheel. I was pretty frustrated by the whole thing and I changed from alloy nipples to brass with little if any improvement. My process of straightening the nipple-spoke line with pliers seems to have fixed the problem. I admit that since I don't have anything to check tension it is possible that tension was not high enough, but I think it probably was. Well??? If the problem is fixed let's rejoice and chalk that up to experience. It still seems to me that a kink in the spoke at the point where the nipple and spoke meet would be the point where cyclical fatigue would eventually result in failure if the spoke was flexed once per revolution. I don't understand why you think that. Unsupported bends cause failure but not supported kinks in the spoke. Without that kink, the spoke was bending near the end of the threads with every wheel revolution. With the kink, spokes just pull from the spoke nipple rather than around a bend at an angle to the last support point. I never had a problem with spokes breaking in the wheels I built before I had heard of stress-relieving but they did go out of true all the time and seemed to dent more easily as well. I think that stress-relieving is a part of building good wheels, but I am not convinced that the spoke breakage problem in this case is caused by residual stress that can be relieved by the normal method of stress relief. Maybe using the pliers to straighten the spoke-nipple line is another method of stress-relief that addresses this specific problem? You are probably correct in that assessment, but unsupported bends in spokes cause spokes to bend. Such flexing readily puts high tensile stress cycles in the outside surface of the bend and compressive stress on the inside to cause fatigue failures. Jobst Brandt |
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spoke breakage at nipple side
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