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Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 11th 18, 11:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,087
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 10:15:33 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/11/2018 11:21 AM, Mark J. wrote:
On 1/7/2018 11:35 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear.
Do you?

Cheers

If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I
use carbide studded tires on my bike.* With studded tires, ice is
irrelevant.* Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else.
I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using
studded tires.* So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect
my body if I were to fall.* But with studded tires, you can't fall.


I agree that studs make ice (mostly) irrelevant.* (See what others have
posted about uncontrolled larger vehicles in the vicinity.)* But you
/can/ fall with studs, I've done it, though I haven't on "just ice."
Deep snow /over/ ice, that's another matter.* This is a pretty rare
condition around here.


I have one friend who was riding home from work in winter on studded
tires, very pleased at their traction. But as he turned into his
driveway, he fell when crossing the melted and re-frozen pile from the
snowplow. He broke his collarbone.

This doesn't meant falls are common with studded tires. But falling
isn't impossible.


Been there, done that -- although no broken collarbone. I never found studs to be magical in ice, but it might be because I have a crappy set of Innova el cheap-o studs. Ice on manhole covers, streetcar tracks, etc. is still very dangerous with studs.

Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building sidewalks and installing banana peels.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #32  
Old January 12th 18, 12:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,805
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:36:33 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is
on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on
the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff
is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to
avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building
sidewalks and installing banana peels.


The people designing bike infrastructure seem to generally have no
notion at all of how to actually ride a bike in traffic. IME the bike
infrastructure (bike lanes, etc.) often makes riding worse rather than
better- to the extent that I wonder if that is actually the point.
  #33  
Old January 12th 18, 12:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,026
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 1:25:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:28:40 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on
the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such
as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are
clear. Do you?

Cheers


as a snow country biker, does SR use studded tires /


No, no studs for me. I drop; the air pressure a fair bit if I think
I'll be on black ice. Early in the season I take the bike to an
outdoor ice rimnks after dark when the rink is closed (It's a
temporary one they build forthe winter in a park) and practice riding
the bike on that ice.

Btw, contrary to many who believe that black ice is always thin,
that's not always true and also, black ice can form very quickly even
if the air temperature is above freezing but the moisture is in shade
and thus quite a bit cooler.


Thick, transparent ice can certainly form on the roadway, the only
question is whether such blatant stuff merits the name "black ice".

On the second point I think you're correct in general, but, to be frank,
mistaken in detail. The surface of a puddle trying to freeze can lose
heat through two mechanisms: convection by nearby air, and radiation.
If the local air temperature is above freezing convection cannot cool
anything to below freezing.

Radiation can cool the puddle to, roughly, the blackbody temperature of
whatever is "visible" from it. I remember being asked to show this as
homework -- we were to assume a (very cold) stratospheric blackbody
temperature, and show that ice could form even if the air temperature
was above freezing.

The catch is that shade is exactly the wrong condition for this to
happen, what's needed is a view of a clear nightime sky.

The blackbody assumption (absorption/emission spectrum depending
smoothly on temperature) isn't quite right, because the atmosphere
contains "greenhouse" gases with interesting spectra in the infrared.
By far the most important of these is water, so if you want to freeze
water at air temperatures above freezing, choose a clear night in a
desert.

I believe this phenomenon was actually used to produce ice in
pre-industrial India.


--
  #34  
Old January 12th 18, 12:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,879
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

On 1/11/2018 7:00 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:36:33 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is
on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on
the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff
is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to
avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building
sidewalks and installing banana peels.


The people designing bike infrastructure seem to generally have no
notion at all of how to actually ride a bike in traffic.


Certainly, the "advocates" that demand such infrastructure seldom know
how to actually ride a bike in traffic. When a knowledgeable cyclist
points out the flaws in their dreamy designs, they frequently attack.
They say things like "Well, you're one of the 'strong and fearless.' We
need designs for anyone, 8 to 80." (As if 80-year-old grandma is going
to know about hazards like Jay describes.)

So in the bike advocacy arena, people with the most expertise are
disparaged for their knowledge, while the ignorant are revered.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #35  
Old January 12th 18, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,437
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

On 1/11/2018 5:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 10:15:33 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/11/2018 11:21 AM, Mark J. wrote:
On 1/7/2018 11:35 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear.
Do you?

Cheers

If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I
use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is
irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else.
I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using
studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect
my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.

I agree that studs make ice (mostly) irrelevant. (See what others have
posted about uncontrolled larger vehicles in the vicinity.) But you
/can/ fall with studs, I've done it, though I haven't on "just ice."
Deep snow /over/ ice, that's another matter. This is a pretty rare
condition around here.


I have one friend who was riding home from work in winter on studded
tires, very pleased at their traction. But as he turned into his
driveway, he fell when crossing the melted and re-frozen pile from the
snowplow. He broke his collarbone.

This doesn't meant falls are common with studded tires. But falling
isn't impossible.


Been there, done that -- although no broken collarbone. I never found studs to be magical in ice, but it might be because I have a crappy set of Innova el cheap-o studs. Ice on manhole covers, streetcar tracks, etc. is still very dangerous with studs.

Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building sidewalks and installing banana peels.

-- Jay Beattie.


"We're from the government. We're here to help you."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #36  
Old January 12th 18, 07:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

https://books.google.com/books?id=0R...ridges&f=false

AFAIK, metal bridGE grates pass heat thru not storing heat. Concrete decks cool both sides, bottom in shade, no diurnal flywheel.

Large difference tween flat area in su shine say 30 degrees.
  #37  
Old January 12th 18, 08:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andy
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Posts: 40
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 1:35:31 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?

Cheers


If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else. I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.


At $110 each, I'll pass on them tires.

Just as riding hard will wear the tread blocks of regular knobby tires quickly in summer, it will do the same in winter, and the studs will be more likely to rip out of the tire

Andy
  #38  
Old January 12th 18, 09:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,437
Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

On 1/12/2018 2:58 PM, Andy wrote:
On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 1:35:31 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?

Cheers


If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else. I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.


At $110 each, I'll pass on them tires.

Just as riding hard will wear the tread blocks of regular knobby tires quickly in summer, it will do the same in winter, and the studs will be more likely to rip out of the tire


I don't use then either but the popular brands and models
hover around $59.95. Are there $110 (and higher) tires?
Sure, but that's not the basic rate.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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