street design complexities

On 3/2/2020 10:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 7:56:35 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/2/2020 9:24 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.


Direct personal experience:
I owned a very successful restaurant in a dense urban
neighborhood[1] until The Powers That Be decided to create a
car-free sinkhole for tax dollars with a two year[2]
construction schedule. That proved fatal.


[1]'Where may I park?' 'Right in front at the fire hydrant,
our valet will move it for you.'

[2] Two very long years of dirt, dust, heavy machinery,
piles of gravel and pipe and plywood sheets over trenches
and all the usual clutter.

And to be fair -- or unfair -- I'm living through massive construction in a dense downtown carried out by for-profit operations. Commercial property owners have no problem taking over city blocks and shutting down traffic for years. My office tower is in the process of being flipped, so I'm going to work every day in a construction zone. http://www.nextportland.com/2018/09/...-fargo-center/

Per-SF lease prices are also skyrocketing, and small businesses are being displaced. A Ritz-Carlton Hotel displacing 30 food carts. https://www.opb.org/news/article/ald...on-green-loop/ (great place to get lunch). If I were a bricks-and-mortar business, I'd be more worried about Amazon than a bike facility or being priced out of my building because they want to knock it down for a condo tower or put in a Gucci store. In the grand scheme of things, there is something almost quaint about a local planning department wanting a pedestrian mall or car-free street.

-- Jay Beattie.


I don't know about 'quaint' as the pain is the same either
way but you're absolutely right about seemingly permanent
scaffolding, contractor trailers and a full lane for most of
a block commandeered for a crane, again seemingly until the
end of days. I hate all that too.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 8:57:03 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 7:56:35 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/2/2020 9:24 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.


Direct personal experience:
I owned a very successful restaurant in a dense urban
neighborhood[1] until The Powers That Be decided to create a
car-free sinkhole for tax dollars with a two year[2]
construction schedule. That proved fatal.


[1]'Where may I park?' 'Right in front at the fire hydrant,
our valet will move it for you.'

[2] Two very long years of dirt, dust, heavy machinery,
piles of gravel and pipe and plywood sheets over trenches
and all the usual clutter.

And to be fair -- or unfair -- I'm living through massive construction in a dense downtown carried out by for-profit operations. Commercial property owners have no problem taking over city blocks and shutting down traffic for years. My office tower is in the process of being flipped, so I'm going to work every day in a construction zone. http://www.nextportland.com/2018/09/...-fargo-center/

Per-SF lease prices are also skyrocketing, and small businesses are being displaced. A Ritz-Carlton Hotel displacing 30 food carts. https://www.opb.org/news/article/ald...on-green-loop/ (great place to get lunch). If I were a bricks-and-mortar business, I'd be more worried about Amazon than a bike facility or being priced out of my building because they want to knock it down for a condo tower or put in a Gucci store. In the grand scheme of things, there is something almost quaint about a local planning department wanting a pedestrian mall or car-free street.

-- Jay Beattie.

What isn't clear to me is why they are tearing down warehouses and building warehouses of the same site. Though generally larger. But it both of them were untenanted what is the point?

On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 07:24:04 -0800, jbeattie wrote:

On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...oses-car-free-
valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas
in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on
an adjacent street.

IME, there is usually early morning periods for deliveries. Or there are
conviently located loading parking bays.

On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 14:27:18 -0800, Tom Kunich wrote:


What isn't clear to me is why they are tearing down warehouses and
building warehouses of the same site. Though generally larger. But it
both of them were untenanted what is the point?

Old warehouses often don't accommodate new methods of warehousing or
stock distribtion centres. This might be why they were vacant.

On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 15:58:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:


OTOH, I know two cities in my riding area that converted certain busy
blocks to car-free areas. In both places, those blocks became deserts
with empty store fronts. Eventually both were re-opened to cars and
parking.

IME, this is the situation if there is no nearby mass parking.


But I think the concept can work well for less trafficked side streets.

Light goods shopping that peope can easily carry, but not bulk like the
supermarket or bulk goods.

I think there's a fundamental human pleasure in just sitting and
watching other people walk around. It's a sadly rare pleasure in most of
America.

Am 02.03.2020 um 16:59 schrieb AMuzi:
On 3/2/2020 9:44 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 02.03.2020 um 16:24 schrieb jbeattie:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right.Â* Maybe SMS knows what happens in
car-free
areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just
throws the
burden on an adjacent street.

Most (probably all) cities with "car-free" streets have an
exemption for taxis etc as well as an exemption for delivery
vehicles for some hours (typically morning hours).

Shops along non-road premises (like malls) always have their
special delivery arrangements.

You make wild assumptions about power and its abuse.

At our last location, UPS and FedEx drivers were regularly ticketed
while delivering/picking up at our front door.

The assumption that towns generally make buisness-freindly regulations
is the one reason why I wrote "most", typically the town benefits from
business rates and the own likes to geep the reates running.

OTOH, UPS and FedEx are knwon to care less about delivery regulations
for each specific shop than delivery services which deliver goods by the
vanload or truckload. If you receive a van load full of bikes, you can
easily specify "delviery only allowed before 11:00 AM".

On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 12:30:21 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 02.03.2020 um 16:59 schrieb AMuzi:
On 3/2/2020 9:44 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 02.03.2020 um 16:24 schrieb jbeattie:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right.Â* Maybe SMS knows what happens in
car-free
areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just
throws the
burden on an adjacent street.

Most (probably all) cities with "car-free" streets have an
exemption for taxis etc as well as an exemption for delivery
vehicles for some hours (typically morning hours).

Shops along non-road premises (like malls) always have their
special delivery arrangements.

You make wild assumptions about power and its abuse.

At our last location, UPS and FedEx drivers were regularly ticketed
while delivering/picking up at our front door.

The assumption that towns generally make buisness-freindly regulations
is the one reason why I wrote "most", typically the town benefits from
business rates and the own likes to geep the reates running.

OTOH, UPS and FedEx are knwon to care less about delivery regulations
for each specific shop than delivery services which deliver goods by the
vanload or truckload. If you receive a van load full of bikes, you can
easily specify "delviery only allowed before 11:00 AM".

That is now during rush hours in a large city like San Francisco which only seems to have "normally" heavy traffic between the hours of 11 am and 2 pm.. And the streets are unsafe after 10 pm with drug addicts and drunks driving the roads.

Maybe they should put more motorcycle and bicycle police out there. For their OWN best interests they would enforce the law.