Cold, no coffee shops and riding

On Sunday, 12 April 2020 08:45:11 UTC-4, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:42:37 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 4/11/2020 10:24 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I have a self-contained single-burner butane stove that also has
piezoelectric ignition. I now stuff it into one of my panniers and add
a small pot and cup. With that I can stop anywhere and brew up a great
cup of coffee or tea. It's only about a fifteen minutes ride from my
place to outside of town. there are a few really nice spots to sit and
watch the rivers or creeks or other beautiful scenery. It's also
isolated and with no other people around at all. I can brew up a
coffee or tea and sit there and contemplate the sounds of silence.

I keep thinking about making one of those "Coke can" alcohol stoves for
the same purpose. Zero moving parts, incredibly lightweight, nothing to
break...

You can't make just one, you have to make at least 25 or so. It's only
your valuable time, after all, coke cans are essentially free.
Eventually, though, you risk becoming a connoisseur of aluminum cans,
preferring the sturdy Budweister aluminum bottles, for example.

Or, you could admit defeat at the outset and spend actual money on a
Trangia burner.

I have a least three alcohol burners and the mos expensive is a tangia
system. The most basic was a brass achol burner with snuff cap, there is
an acholburner with stuff cap that fit in a tin.

IME, most camping store wil sell the "trangia" alcohol burner core and if
the bug the "right one", you just drop the lid on top and take/flick it
off, thus snuffing the flame out, but wait forthe birner to cool before
screwing the lid/snuffer onto seal unburnt fuel.

The can stoves do work, but alcohol has less fuel value than gasoline,
so you need to carry more. There is no way to turn them down, nor turn
them off and restart them.

You can also moderate the flame a little, it is stil basically a one rate
burner, by adding a little water to the fuel.

Since I picked up the burner in a tin before I left schhol, i've never
bothered to construct an alcohol stove., For serious cooking, I've used
either an Optimus(nice square break down) or an MSR whisper(?) which are
both multifuel.

However,for day trips it usual easier to take a trangia or such..


There are other options. You could go with one of those solar-powered
forced draft (electric fan) stick and twig burners. Or you could go all
retro and get a ghillie kettle, those are very entertaining, but too
heavy to carry very far.

as the water heater, for agroup with wood fuel, they rock.

For my day trips I really do like my self-contained butane stove. I get to where I want to have a coffee or tea and perhaps a hot meal; then I open up my stove, press the ignition button and within a few minutes have a pot of water boiling for my hot beverage. Oh, I almost forgot. Sometimes I'll make hot chocolate. A lot of times by a river or small lake I'll cook a lunch.. Food really does taste great then.

What I like about this stove is that the pot or frying pan stays clean on the outside.

A Sterno or other gel-alcohol stove works pretty well but I found they took a fair amount of time to heat up the water needed for more than a cup of hot beverage.

Cheers

On 4/12/2020 8:50 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

On 4/11/2020 6:42 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 4/11/2020 10:24 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I have a self-contained single-burner butane stove that also has
piezoelectric ignition. I now stuff it into one of my panniers and
add a small pot and cup. With that I can stop anywhere and brew up a
great cup of coffee or tea. It's only about a fifteen minutes ride
from my place to outside of town. there are a few really nice spots
to sit and watch the rivers or creeks or other beautiful
scenery. It's also isolated and with no other people around at
all. I can brew up a coffee or tea and sit there and contemplate the
sounds of silence.

I keep thinking about making one of those "Coke can" alcohol stoves
for the same purpose. Zero moving parts, incredibly lightweight,
nothing to break...

You can't make just one, you have to make at least 25 or so.

I have a friend who was making those from cat food cans. I was
volunteering at a cat rescue place and supplied him with an endless
supply of cans.

It's not really worth making it yourself.

It certainly worthwhile if it entertains you. As a practical exercise
you may be right.

Making the stove itself is easy but you really want something sturdier
than a thin aluminum soda can that is easily crushed in your pannier or
whatever you carry stuff in. The more difficult part is a home-brew
lightweight pot support. If you're concerned about weight, there are
titanium alcohol stoves with titanium pot rack supports, but those are
five times as expensive, around $25 with a pot rack and lid.

On 4/12/2020 10:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2020 7:08 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:


This kids device is 3-D printed. It takes something like
two hours to
print one. It's a fine project - but it looks like
something that
could be stamped or cut out of sheet plastic in 20
seconds or so per
copy. A stronger version of a cookie cutter with perhaps
a lever
system could probably do that. (Jigsaw puzzles are cut
that way, but
with a press.)

Admittedly, I'm not doing it, so I can't say too much.

Does he have the resources to build a stamping device?
That does not
sound trivial -- he would have to build a suitably shaped
cutter from
tool steel, harden it, sharpen it ...

I don't think it would require tool steel. Admittedly, I'm
speculating. But the force on this plastic strip would be
tiny. It could be very soft plastic. Did he have the
ingenuity to build a stamping device - say, a long lever arm
made from a two-by-four pushing down a simple die? That's my
point.

The real alternative back in the
day for 13 year olds was to cut pieces out by hand, with a
knife or saw,
and finish with a file, or sandpaper.

Really, if he cut them out by hand using scissors, it would
still be immensely faster. It's not that he's not doing some
good. His desire to help is admirable. But I think there are
lots of times when the appropriate solution is "low tech"
but ignored in favor of whiz-bang stuff.

Take STI 11-speeds for example. [And he ducks and covers!]

Things are different today than when you were young.
Through a new
graduate that was recently hired where I work we have been
introduced to
the world of robot competitions -- they set up some game,
a new one
every year, and kids from middle school on up build
powered devices
including microprocessors, servomotors, both 3d printed
and machined
parts, cameras for computer vision, and who knows what
else. Then they
travel to competitions, pit their devices against each
other, figure out
how to fix them when they break, and take notes for next
year.

Yes, our university hosts those competitions. I have good
friends that both competed and later served as consultants
and judges. That includes two (now married) who were on a
regional championship team.

It is amazing the resources that some high schoolers have,
but they also
put a huge amount of work into it. They probably wouldn't
get very far
with 1950s technology, but neither you nor I would do very
well with
1900s technology, not to mention any of us dropped into
the jungle
looking for sharp rocks. Every generation learns to use
the tools they
have available to them, and this one seems no exception.

I wouldn't do well with 1900s tech? You forget what bikes I
ride! ;-)

BTW, one very entertaining program we watched was a BBC
series, _The Victorian Farm._ Also its sequels dealing with
Edwardian times, WW2, medieval times, etc. Each had a trio
of modern folks recreating living conditions and using
technologies from those periods; trying to learn to plow a
field, build a pig sty, preserve grain, cook meals, etc.


I would think he doesn't need equipment of his own, just buy
time on a kiss cut or diecut press and those are everywhe

https://www.esko.com/en/solutions/di...g/kiss-cutting
https://blog.standoutstickers.com/ki...s-it-all-mean/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/12/2020 11:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 23:38:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/12/2020 7:08 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:


This kids device is 3-D printed. It takes something like two hours to
print one. It's a fine project - but it looks like something that
could be stamped or cut out of sheet plastic in 20 seconds or so per
copy. A stronger version of a cookie cutter with perhaps a lever
system could probably do that. (Jigsaw puzzles are cut that way, but
with a press.)

Admittedly, I'm not doing it, so I can't say too much.

Does he have the resources to build a stamping device? That does not
sound trivial -- he would have to build a suitably shaped cutter from
tool steel, harden it, sharpen it ...

I don't think it would require tool steel. Admittedly, I'm speculating.
But the force on this plastic strip would be tiny. It could be very soft
plastic. Did he have the ingenuity to build a stamping device - say, a
long lever arm made from a two-by-four pushing down a simple die? That's
my point.

The real alternative back in the
day for 13 year olds was to cut pieces out by hand, with a knife or saw,
and finish with a file, or sandpaper.

Really, if he cut them out by hand using scissors, it would still be
immensely faster. It's not that he's not doing some good. His desire to
help is admirable. But I think there are lots of times when the
appropriate solution is "low tech" but ignored in favor of whiz-bang stuff.

Take STI 11-speeds for example. [And he ducks and covers!]

Things are different today than when you were young. Through a new
graduate that was recently hired where I work we have been introduced to
the world of robot competitions -- they set up some game, a new one
every year, and kids from middle school on up build powered devices
including microprocessors, servomotors, both 3d printed and machined
parts, cameras for computer vision, and who knows what else. Then they
travel to competitions, pit their devices against each other, figure out
how to fix them when they break, and take notes for next year.

Yes, our university hosts those competitions. I have good friends that
both competed and later served as consultants and judges. That includes
two (now married) who were on a regional championship team.

It is amazing the resources that some high schoolers have, but they also
put a huge amount of work into it. They probably wouldn't get very far
with 1950s technology, but neither you nor I would do very well with
1900s technology, not to mention any of us dropped into the jungle
looking for sharp rocks. Every generation learns to use the tools they
have available to them, and this one seems no exception.

I wouldn't do well with 1900s tech? You forget what bikes I ride! ;-)

BTW, one very entertaining program we watched was a BBC series, _The
Victorian Farm._ Also its sequels dealing with Edwardian times, WW2,
medieval times, etc. Each had a trio of modern folks recreating living
conditions and using technologies from those periods; trying to learn to
plow a field, build a pig sty, preserve grain, cook meals, etc.

Years ago a young couple rented a small cottage on a rather remote
lake from a distant relative. They planned to "winter" there just as
their ancestors had lived. According to the chap that owned the
cottage there was sufficient cord wood to heat the cottage for the
winter so off they went. And it snowed... hard.

Anyway, a couple of months went by and we had a real warm spell and
some of the snow melted and they bravely trekked out on foot and back
into cavitation.

Talking to them it turned out that they had no concept of the amount
of work it took just to survive in primitive conditions.

There was plenty of wood but it was cordwood - 4 foot lengths and had
to be sawed up to fit the stove or the fireplace. And a fireplace is a
very inefficient heating device and needs a LOT of wood. Of course
there was no running water so every day someone had to chop a hole in
the ice at the lake and carry water. There was no inside toilet and
Boy! that seat out there gets cold. Cooking on a wood stove requires
certain skills. And no canned goods requires even more work. Clothes
get washed by hand with a tub and a "washboard" and that takes more
water that has to be carried.

Them old folks worked hard :-)


+1

One long weekend of 'cut wood or die' well below zero F in
Florence County WI cured me of it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/13/2020 9:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/12/2020 10:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2020 7:08 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:


This kids device is 3-D printed. It takes something like
two hours to
print one. It's a fine project - but it looks like
something that
could be stamped or cut out of sheet plastic in 20
seconds or so per
copy. A stronger version of a cookie cutter with perhaps
a lever
system could probably do that. (Jigsaw puzzles are cut
that way, but
with a press.)

Admittedly, I'm not doing it, so I can't say too much.

Does he have the resources to build a stamping device?
That does not
sound trivial -- he would have to build a suitably shaped
cutter from
tool steel, harden it, sharpen it ...

I don't think it would require tool steel. Admittedly, I'm
speculating. But the force on this plastic strip would be
tiny. It could be very soft plastic. Did he have the
ingenuity to build a stamping device - say, a long lever arm
made from a two-by-four pushing down a simple die? That's my
point.

The real alternative back in the
day for 13 year olds was to cut pieces out by hand, with a
knife or saw,
and finish with a file, or sandpaper.

Really, if he cut them out by hand using scissors, it would
still be immensely faster. It's not that he's not doing some
good. His desire to help is admirable. But I think there are
lots of times when the appropriate solution is "low tech"
but ignored in favor of whiz-bang stuff.

Take STI 11-speeds for example.Â* [And he ducks and covers!]

Things are different today than when you were young.
Through a new
graduate that was recently hired where I work we have been
introduced to
the world of robot competitions -- they set up some game,
a new one
every year, and kids from middle school on up build
powered devices
including microprocessors, servomotors, both 3d printed
and machined
parts, cameras for computer vision, and who knows what
else.Â* Then they
travel to competitions, pit their devices against each
other, figure out
how to fix them when they break, and take notes for next
year.

Yes, our university hosts those competitions. I have good
friends that both competed and later served as consultants
and judges. That includes two (now married) who were on a
regional championship team.

It is amazing the resources that some high schoolers have,
but they also
put a huge amount of work into it.Â* They probably wouldn't
get very far
with 1950s technology, but neither you nor I would do very
well with
1900s technology, not to mention any of us dropped into
the jungle
looking for sharp rocks.Â* Every generation learns to use
the tools they
have available to them, and this one seems no exception.

I wouldn't do well with 1900s tech? You forget what bikes I
ride!Â* ;-)

BTW, one very entertaining program we watched was a BBC
series, _The Victorian Farm._ Also its sequels dealing with
Edwardian times, WW2, medieval times, etc. Each had a trio
of modern folks recreating living conditions and using
technologies from those periods; trying to learn to plow a
field, build a pig sty, preserve grain, cook meals, etc.


I would think he doesn't need equipment of his own, just buy time on a
kiss cut or diecut press and those are everywhe

https://www.esko.com/en/solutions/di...g/kiss-cutting
https://blog.standoutstickers.com/ki...s-it-all-mean/

I'm not familiar with those. Yes, looks like it would work if it can
handle the thickness. I'm thinking the kids produce may be 2mm thick.

Another way to make this boy's flat plastic device would be with a
little CNC machine, something like this:
https://www.sainsmart.com/products/s...er-pro-diy-kit


It would have the same "whiz-bang" appeal of 3D printing, but would
crank out parts much, much faster.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 4/12/2020 7:08 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:


This kids device is 3-D printed. It takes something like two hours to
print one. It's a fine project - but it looks like something that
could be stamped or cut out of sheet plastic in 20 seconds or so per
copy. A stronger version of a cookie cutter with perhaps a lever
system could probably do that. (Jigsaw puzzles are cut that way, but
with a press.)

Admittedly, I'm not doing it, so I can't say too much.

Does he have the resources to build a stamping device? That does not
sound trivial -- he would have to build a suitably shaped cutter from
tool steel, harden it, sharpen it ...

I don't think it would require tool steel. Admittedly, I'm
speculating. But the force on this plastic strip would be tiny. It
could be very soft plastic. Did he have the ingenuity to build a
stamping device - say, a long lever arm made from a two-by-four
pushing down a simple die? That's my point.

The real alternative back in the
day for 13 year olds was to cut pieces out by hand, with a knife or saw,
and finish with a file, or sandpaper.

Really, if he cut them out by hand using scissors, it would still be
immensely faster. It's not that he's not doing some good. His desire
to help is admirable. But I think there are lots of times when the
appropriate solution is "low tech" but ignored in favor of whiz-bang
stuff.

If scissors are really a practical alternative then that sounds like a
better way to go. 3d printing at this point is great for prototyping,
but not often great for production.

Take STI 11-speeds for example. [And he ducks and covers!]

Things are different today than when you were young. Through a new
graduate that was recently hired where I work we have been introduced to
the world of robot competitions -- they set up some game, a new one
every year, and kids from middle school on up build powered devices
including microprocessors, servomotors, both 3d printed and machined
parts, cameras for computer vision, and who knows what else. Then they
travel to competitions, pit their devices against each other, figure out
how to fix them when they break, and take notes for next year.

Yes, our university hosts those competitions. I have good friends that
both competed and later served as consultants and judges. That
includes two (now married) who were on a regional championship team.

It is amazing the resources that some high schoolers have, but they also
put a huge amount of work into it. They probably wouldn't get very far
with 1950s technology, but neither you nor I would do very well with
1900s technology, not to mention any of us dropped into the jungle
looking for sharp rocks. Every generation learns to use the tools they
have available to them, and this one seems no exception.

I wouldn't do well with 1900s tech? You forget what bikes I ride! ;-)

BTW, one very entertaining program we watched was a BBC series, _The
Victorian Farm._ Also its sequels dealing with Edwardian times, WW2,
medieval times, etc. Each had a trio of modern folks recreating living
conditions and using technologies from those periods; trying to learn
to plow a field, build a pig sty, preserve grain, cook meals, etc.

Laundry was a bear not so long ago. Still is in a large part of the
world.

On 4/13/2020 5:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2020 8:50 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

It's not really worth making it yourself.

It certainly worthwhile if it entertains you.Â* As a practical exercise
you may be right.

Making the stove itself is easy but you really want something sturdier
than a thin aluminum soda can that is easily crushed in your pannier or
whatever you carry stuff in. The more difficult part is a home-brew
lightweight pot support.

The guy who first showed me a Coke can alcohol stove made it himself. He
used it for his cooking when he hiked about a third of the Appalachian
Trail. It was rugged enough to survive that.

That guy was into ultra-light backpacking. Somewhat different from
another friend of mine who hiked the entire AT carrying his accordion
with him. (Admittedly, it was a small accordion.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 4/13/2020 5:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2020 8:50 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

It's not really worth making it yourself.

It certainly worthwhile if it entertains you.Â* As a practical exercise
you may be right.

Making the stove itself is easy but you really want something
sturdier than a thin aluminum soda can that is easily crushed in
your pannier or whatever you carry stuff in. The more difficult part
is a home-brew lightweight pot support.

The guy who first showed me a Coke can alcohol stove made it
himself. He used it for his cooking when he hiked about a third of the
Appalachian Trail. It was rugged enough to survive that.

That guy was into ultra-light backpacking. Somewhat different from
another friend of mine who hiked the entire AT carrying his accordion
with him. (Admittedly, it was a small accordion.)

A typical can stove is much shorter than the original can, and has a
double thickness of aluminum over most of its height. It probably won't
survive being stepped on, but it's considerably stronger than the
original cans.

On 10/4/20 8:31 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:18:15 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 9/4/20 4:07 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
Did another ride yesterday and will head out on another ride
shortly. Tomorrow forecast is for high winds.

This 22.6 miles without stopping is rather tiring but it also is
improving my Di2 shifting. I now know that the levers have a
sweet spot to be used. Trying them in other spots is likely to
get no shift or a double shift.


Two 90 km rides this week so far. Both were cracking good rides
and included a stop for coffee mid way. The weather was fine and
although I had a slight head wind during the first half, there was
a tail wind to blow me home.

My Campagnolo 10 speed Ergo levers working fine as usual.

-- JS

If I kept adjusting the shifting every second or third week my 10
speed Campy would shift fine. But I couldn't ignore that adjusting.
And that included with 100% new levers.

So it isn't my imagination and it isn't as if these things do not
wear. The rear derailleurs didn't change but the chain wear, the
cable stretch and the lever ratchet wear on the right lever simply
can't be overcome.


I haven't adjusted the shifting on my bike since .... I can't remember.
Probably since I installed new cables.

I think there is something wrong with your setup.

--
JS

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:45:41 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/12/2020 11:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 23:38:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/12/2020 7:08 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:


This kids device is 3-D printed. It takes something like two hours to
print one. It's a fine project - but it looks like something that
could be stamped or cut out of sheet plastic in 20 seconds or so per
copy. A stronger version of a cookie cutter with perhaps a lever
system could probably do that. (Jigsaw puzzles are cut that way, but
with a press.)

Admittedly, I'm not doing it, so I can't say too much.

Does he have the resources to build a stamping device? That does not
sound trivial -- he would have to build a suitably shaped cutter from
tool steel, harden it, sharpen it ...

I don't think it would require tool steel. Admittedly, I'm speculating.
But the force on this plastic strip would be tiny. It could be very soft
plastic. Did he have the ingenuity to build a stamping device - say, a
long lever arm made from a two-by-four pushing down a simple die? That's
my point.

The real alternative back in the
day for 13 year olds was to cut pieces out by hand, with a knife or saw,
and finish with a file, or sandpaper.

Really, if he cut them out by hand using scissors, it would still be
immensely faster. It's not that he's not doing some good. His desire to
help is admirable. But I think there are lots of times when the
appropriate solution is "low tech" but ignored in favor of whiz-bang stuff.

Take STI 11-speeds for example. [And he ducks and covers!]

Things are different today than when you were young. Through a new
graduate that was recently hired where I work we have been introduced to
the world of robot competitions -- they set up some game, a new one
every year, and kids from middle school on up build powered devices
including microprocessors, servomotors, both 3d printed and machined
parts, cameras for computer vision, and who knows what else. Then they
travel to competitions, pit their devices against each other, figure out
how to fix them when they break, and take notes for next year.

Yes, our university hosts those competitions. I have good friends that
both competed and later served as consultants and judges. That includes
two (now married) who were on a regional championship team.

It is amazing the resources that some high schoolers have, but they also
put a huge amount of work into it. They probably wouldn't get very far
with 1950s technology, but neither you nor I would do very well with
1900s technology, not to mention any of us dropped into the jungle
looking for sharp rocks. Every generation learns to use the tools they
have available to them, and this one seems no exception.

I wouldn't do well with 1900s tech? You forget what bikes I ride! ;-)

BTW, one very entertaining program we watched was a BBC series, _The
Victorian Farm._ Also its sequels dealing with Edwardian times, WW2,
medieval times, etc. Each had a trio of modern folks recreating living
conditions and using technologies from those periods; trying to learn to
plow a field, build a pig sty, preserve grain, cook meals, etc.

Years ago a young couple rented a small cottage on a rather remote
lake from a distant relative. They planned to "winter" there just as
their ancestors had lived. According to the chap that owned the
cottage there was sufficient cord wood to heat the cottage for the
winter so off they went. And it snowed... hard.

Anyway, a couple of months went by and we had a real warm spell and
some of the snow melted and they bravely trekked out on foot and back
into cavitation.

Talking to them it turned out that they had no concept of the amount
of work it took just to survive in primitive conditions.

There was plenty of wood but it was cordwood - 4 foot lengths and had
to be sawed up to fit the stove or the fireplace. And a fireplace is a
very inefficient heating device and needs a LOT of wood. Of course
there was no running water so every day someone had to chop a hole in
the ice at the lake and carry water. There was no inside toilet and
Boy! that seat out there gets cold. Cooking on a wood stove requires
certain skills. And no canned goods requires even more work. Clothes
get washed by hand with a tub and a "washboard" and that takes more
water that has to be carried.

Them old folks worked hard :-)


+1

One long weekend of 'cut wood or die' well below zero F in
Florence County WI cured me of it.

Well, of course, back in the day one didn't wait until it got cold to
cut wood. At one time my grandfather heated a two story house with
wood - well "heated" may be a bit over stated - but anyway, he started
cutting in his wood lot the first of September and by the 1st of
October had the "wood shed" full, literally, to the
ceiling, with stove length wood. He still, of course, had to split the
stove length pieces into something you could put in the stove but the
heavy lifting was done.

When we first moved to "the new house" it had a wood burning furnace
and I earned the money for my first .22 rifle by bucking up cordwood
into stove length for an hour a day after school, for a month.
--
cheers,

John B.