Freewheel questions

I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?

Second, the freewheel mechanism is binding. The cranks move while
walking the bike, and I can feel resistance moving it by hand. Does
this mean servicing the freewheel or simply oiling it?

I've included a picture for the hell of it. (Yeah,I know it's filthy.)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9821/dscf0660vz3.jpg

On Aug 7, 8:32*pm, Mars wrote:
I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?

Second, the freewheel mechanism is binding. The cranks move while
walking the bike, and I can feel resistance moving it by hand. Does
this mean servicing the freewheel or simply oiling it?

I've included a picture for the hell of it. (Yeah,I know it's filthy.)http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9821/dscf0660vz3.jpg

Mars, you can unbind the mechanism by spraying in lots of WD-40 and
spinning it, alternately. Find the two places where the fixed part
moves against the moving part. There are two round cracks. One is on
the face where you took the picture. The other is on the other side,
near the spokes.

On the other hand, the fact that the cogs are loose is a bad sign.
These things don't just come loose. I suspect a spacer cracked, which
could explain the looseness.

Furthermore, since your picture is quite clear, I see you've worn down
the corners of some teeth, which means it's time to treat yourself to
a new freewheel and probably a new chain, too. All problems solved at
once.

I haven't bought a freewheel in many years, and I don't know their
availability any more. So many bikes have cassette hubs instead. Good
luck. I'm out of touch with the market.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

Tom Reingold wrote:
On Aug 7, 8:32 pm, Mars wrote:
I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?

Second, the freewheel mechanism is binding. The cranks move while
walking the bike, and I can feel resistance moving it by hand. Does
this mean servicing the freewheel or simply oiling it?

I've included a picture for the hell of it. (Yeah,I know it's filthy.)http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9821/dscf0660vz3.jpg

Mars, you can unbind the mechanism by spraying in lots of WD-40 and
spinning it, alternately. Find the two places where the fixed part
moves against the moving part. There are two round cracks. One is on
the face where you took the picture. The other is on the other side,
near the spokes.

On the other hand, the fact that the cogs are loose is a bad sign.
These things don't just come loose. I suspect a spacer cracked, which
could explain the looseness.

Furthermore, since your picture is quite clear, I see you've worn down
the corners of some teeth, which means it's time to treat yourself to
a new freewheel and probably a new chain, too. All problems solved at
once.

I haven't bought a freewheel in many years, and I don't know their
availability any more. So many bikes have cassette hubs instead. Good
luck. I'm out of touch with the market.

You can still find new freewheels but I doubt they are of the
same quality as most Suntours were. Luckily, I have a number of
spare Suntour Winner 2s and a Regina America on my "fast" bike.
Looks like you can still get 6 and 7 speed freewheels from Bike
Nashbar.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy


--
Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
~Albert Einstein
All wars come to an end, at least temporarily. But the authority
acquired by the state hangs on; political power never abdicates.
~Frank Chodorov

On Aug 7, 9:48 pm, Tom Reingold wrote:
On Aug 7, 8:32 pm, Mars wrote:

I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?

Second, the freewheel mechanism is binding. The cranks move while
walking the bike, and I can feel resistance moving it by hand. Does
this mean servicing the freewheel or simply oiling it?

I've included a picture for the hell of it. (Yeah,I know it's filthy.)http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9821/dscf0660vz3.jpg

Mars, you can unbind the mechanism by spraying in lots of WD-40 and
spinning it, alternately. Find the two places where the fixed part
moves against the moving part. There are two round cracks. One is on
the face where you took the picture. The other is on the other side,
near the spokes.

On the other hand, the fact that the cogs are loose is a bad sign.
These things don't just come loose. I suspect a spacer cracked, which
could explain the looseness.

Furthermore, since your picture is quite clear, I see you've worn down
the corners of some teeth, which means it's time to treat yourself to
a new freewheel and probably a new chain, too. All problems solved at
once.

I haven't bought a freewheel in many years, and I don't know their
availability any more. So many bikes have cassette hubs instead. Good
luck. I'm out of touch with the market.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

How do I disassemble the freewheel to inspect it? What did I do to
crack a spacer? I should note that I picked this up used recently,
have put about 1500 km on it. I don't think it was ridden strenuously
before. It's from an 87 Bianchi Strada.

I have been wondering about that tooth wear. If it doesn't make the
chain skip, am I getting away with it, or is it eating away at
efficiency?

Mars wrote:
I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?

Second, the freewheel mechanism is binding. The cranks move while
walking the bike, and I can feel resistance moving it by hand. Does
this mean servicing the freewheel or simply oiling it?

I've included a picture for the hell of it. (Yeah,I know it's filthy.)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9821/dscf0660vz3.jpg

You know, it's a shame people can't build freewheels that last... Mars,
this freewheel has zillions of little tiny ball bearings, hair-thin
springs for the pawls, and it has been filthy for 21 years, and never
serviced (right??). It is time to let go. Get a new one.

You cannot tighten the sprockets with chainwhips any tighter than you
do, day after day, riding the bike. Something has worn out to make them
that loose. It happens even with the best-made equipment, and no
freewheel qualifies as "the best-made equipment".

--

David L. Johnson

Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can assure you
that mine are all greater.
-- A. Einstein

Mars wrote:

How do I disassemble the freewheel to inspect it?

you don't. If you dissassemble the freewheel, all those little tiny
parts will spring out and spread themselves all over your living room.

What did I do to
crack a spacer? I should note that I picked this up used recently,
have put about 1500 km on it. I don't think it was ridden strenuously
before. It's from an 87 Bianchi Strada.

I have been wondering about that tooth wear. If it doesn't make the
chain skip, am I getting away with it, or is it eating away at
efficiency?

Your chain is also worn to sort-of accomodate the sprockets. But it
does not really do well at that.

mechanical parts eventually wear out. You have no idea how many miles
are on this thing.

--

David L. Johnson

Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can assure you
that mine are all greater.
-- A. Einstein

Mars wrote:
On Aug 7, 9:48 pm, Tom Reingold wrote:
On Aug 7, 8:32 pm, Mars wrote:

I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?
Second, the freewheel mechanism is binding. The cranks move while
walking the bike, and I can feel resistance moving it by hand. Does
this mean servicing the freewheel or simply oiling it?
I've included a picture for the hell of it. (Yeah,I know it's filthy.)http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9821/dscf0660vz3.jpg
Mars, you can unbind the mechanism by spraying in lots of WD-40 and
spinning it, alternately. Find the two places where the fixed part
moves against the moving part. There are two round cracks. One is on
the face where you took the picture. The other is on the other side,
near the spokes.

On the other hand, the fact that the cogs are loose is a bad sign.
These things don't just come loose. I suspect a spacer cracked, which
could explain the looseness.

Furthermore, since your picture is quite clear, I see you've worn down
the corners of some teeth, which means it's time to treat yourself to
a new freewheel and probably a new chain, too. All problems solved at
once.

I haven't bought a freewheel in many years, and I don't know their
availability any more. So many bikes have cassette hubs instead. Good
luck. I'm out of touch with the market.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

How do I disassemble the freewheel to inspect it?

For the bearings/ratchet pawls: You don't really want to disassemble
that part. You can remove from wheel with 4-prong SunTour remover tool
(and bench vise or looong wrench), I wouldn't disassemble further.
Removal gives you access to the back, not really necessary.

Alternately, don't remove it (saves buying the tool). Squirt/drip WD-40
or similar solvent around the faceplate until it runs out the bottom,
and then some more to flush out nastiness. (Ratchet fwhl backwards.
The faceplate is the outermost part that /doesn't/ turn.)

Once you think the nasties are flushed out, allow to dry a bit, then
drip in medium weight oil (I use my 20-year old can of Sturmey Archer
Gear oil, but I expect 30 weight would work just fine, if it's thin
enough to go in.)

One /can/remove the faceplate with a two-pin tool (it's left-hand
thread) but it's almost never worth the trouble. If the flush-and-oil
doesn't fix your problem, opening it won't help more (broken pawls mean
dead fwhl).

What did I do to
crack a spacer? I should note that I picked this up used recently,
have put about 1500 km on it. I don't think it was ridden strenuously
before. It's from an 87 Bianchi Strada.

To check the loose cogs, if you /have/ chain whips, remove the top cog
or two (IIRC, the remaining cogs will be splined on this model, so you
can use them to lever against with another chain whip). Watch carefully
as the spacers come off, they are /not/ all the same.

Problem: it will be very hard to impossible to find replacement
spacers, unless by happy and unlikely coincidence they match some other
brand.

I have been wondering about that tooth wear. If it doesn't make the
chain skip, am I getting away with it, or is it eating away at
efficiency?

From the angle of the photo, I don't notice tooth wear. The diagonal
bevels on the leading edges of teeth on smallest three cogs is by design
("accushift plus", IIRC).

Good luck,

Mark J.

On Aug 7, 7:32*pm, Mars wrote:
I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?

Second, the freewheel mechanism is binding. The cranks move while
walking the bike, and I can feel resistance moving it by hand. Does
this mean servicing the freewheel or simply oiling it?

I've included a picture for the hell of it. (Yeah,I know it's filthy.)http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9821/dscf0660vz3.jpg

What kind of shape does the wheel seem to be in? Rim sidewalls heavily
worn? Rim "flat spotted" or otherwise damaged? Hub run smooth, no
excessive bearing play?

(excuse me) Have you ever removed an old FW? Others here have
mentioned the likelihood of it being stuck on there pretty good.

If you were in Austin, Tx, I'd refer you to Bobby's Bikes. Bobby is a
pro who opened up his own shop in his garage, which makes it cheaper
to see him than the FLBS.

Bobby would inspect and make suggestions. He might even have a quick/
cheap repair for that FW up his sleeve, or he could get that old one
off there by hook or by crook (or Dremel tool if need be) if the rest
of the wheel's condition made that economically advisable. If "worth
it", he'd probably do a quick-but-good spoke tension check, and
improve the dish/runout/roundness if needed. And maybe replace/repack
hub bearings just to make sure there's sufficient grease in there. And
make sure the rimstrip was good, save you an unnecessary flat/ruined
inner tube.

New FW's aren't terribly expensive, even retail at your FLBS, ditto
chains (SRAM 58 or 870 I guess is the new part #); if the old chain is
"stretched" you don't want to run it on a nice new FW.
Or, ebay/craigslist might be a source of an inexpensive Winner Pro or
other fine NOS FW in a tooth count range of your preference. --D-y

"Tom Reingold" wrote in message
...
On Aug 7, 8:32 pm, Mars wrote:
I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
snip
Furthermore, since your picture is quite clear, I see you've worn down
the corners of some teeth, which means it's time to treat yourself to
a new freewheel and probably a new chain, too. All problems solved at
once.
snip
--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

Tom,

The angles on the rear of the teeth is not from wear. That was a feature
on late production Suntour freewheels to help them shift better.

I agree with you, I've never seen a loose cog on a freewheel. Some
freewheels used plastic spacers between the cogs and one of those may have
broken.

Chas.

"Mars" wrote in message
...
On Aug 7, 9:48 pm, Tom Reingold wrote:
On Aug 7, 8:32 pm, Mars wrote:

I have a 1987 Suntour 6 speed freewheel with 2 problems. Today I
noticed that the cogs feel a little loose - if I hold one in place I
can feel a bit of play in the others. Would I tighten them using
chainwhips?
snip
Furthermore, since your picture is quite clear, I see you've worn down
the corners of some teeth, which means it's time to treat yourself to
a new freewheel and probably a new chain, too. All problems solved at
once.

I haven't bought a freewheel in many years, and I don't know their
availability any more. So many bikes have cassette hubs instead. Good
luck. I'm out of touch with the market.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

How do I disassemble the freewheel to inspect it? What did I do to
crack a spacer? I should note that I picked this up used recently,
have put about 1500 km on it. I don't think it was ridden strenuously
before. It's from an 87 Bianchi Strada.

I have been wondering about that tooth wear. If it doesn't make the
chain skip, am I getting away with it, or is it eating away at
efficiency?

Mars,

The angles on the rear of the teeth is not from wear. That was a feature
on late production Suntour freewheels to help them shift better.

I've never seen a loose cog on a freewheel. Some freewheels used plastic
spacers between the cogs and one of those may have broken.

The 2 smallest cogs screw onto the freewheel body, the rest slide on. You
can remove them with 2 chainwhips or a special tool or holder and 1
chainwhip.

I would clean up the outside of the freewheel first, they are easier to
work on when clean. Some of these late model Suntour freewheels had
labyrinth seals and an oil hole inside the threads on the back side.

You need a 4 prong Suntour freewheel remover to take it off of the hub to
lubricate it. An LBS that's been in business for a long time may have the
tool and spare spacers.

It may be cheaper to get a new freewheel. I've had problems with several
freewheels sold by Sunrace brand. Shimano sells some freewheels that are
made in China that seem to be better quality.

HINT: If a shop doesn't have the correct freewheel removal tool or know
what they are doing go somewhere else. It will save you a lot of hassles.

Good luck,

Chas.