Tires and Wheels

On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 3:56:02 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 3:31:20 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes tubeless
ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED sticky-tape
rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit there by the
side of the road wrestling with the tire like an over-glued tubular. You
can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a tire iron under the bead.
Time and crying makes it break loose.

Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless and went back to
using tubes on those rims. Tubeless tires on bicycles are the answer to
a question that nobody asked (except racers with support vehicles
following them).

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft. That's for sissies. I once scootered
and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My wife did
come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called for the
ride. I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe. Double
tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with a Ti
plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and light.

I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of my Dahon Speed
TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no tire levers with me since
normally they are not necessary. I once bought some Performance "Forte"
700c tires and they were not possible to put on or take off without
levers. When you get the combination of wheels with "difficult" rims and
tires that may be a bit too small, it can require levers. I now have
pretty much switched to all Schwalbe tires and tubes and things are much
better.





My guess is that Jay’s rims are tubeless ready but his tires are not
tubeless.

Correct. Tubeless ready was foisted upon me by HED. I use tubes.

-- Jay Beattie.


Figured. I don’t have much trouble with my HED wheels and Conti 4000s
tires. The Spec Pros I used before were easier to get on but the Contis
aren’t bad. Never tried the 4 seasons though.

I found a set of Specialized Armer-alls or whatever they're called. They were supposed to be 23's but they sure looked like 20's after they were mounted and inflated. And they wore out in a matter of a couple of months. I didn't get any flats though.

On 2020-04-03 15:35, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 1:09:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-02 17:35, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:46 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and
with bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about
how hard it is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims.
Getting the tire on was so hard that they had to resort to
using some sort of tire jack to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they
puncture whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire
off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason
to use removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of
tire sealant on a ride.

Cheers


IMHO the tires have not changed[1] ...


Actually, they have.


... but rather many, all too damned many, modern rims are
deficient in design by having too small a heigh difference from
bead seat to center well. Compound that negligence with both OEM
and LBS who drop in a too-thick or too wide rim liner and yes, it
sucks. This is clearly not what the brothers Michelin intended!

[1]some variance but IME brands vary more in suppleness than
actual size, stiff, rigid tires being unforgiving of underlying
fit problems


I have Mavic rims from the 80's which unfortunately have a shallow
profile. Ok, only one is now left because rim brakes eat rims but I
can for sure say that many tires are nowadays undersized.
Gatorskins were among the worst for me to mount and get off where
in the old days the Vredesteins always went on and off with ease.

So I had to find a tire that isn't undersized in the beads and
found one, the Vittoria Zaffiro. It is also not overpriced like
many others. I always keep a stack of those handy, just in case
they go "on allocation" like toilet paper recently has.

If I had a choice I'd opt for MTB rims even on the road bike. Very
deep troughs and one can switch tires almost without any tire
levers.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

The original Vittoria Corsa G+ were great tires. Now they are called
Corsa plus or something and they too are now almost impossible to
mount.


So maybe I should get another dozen in case they screw up.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 4/2/2020 11:26 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 02/04/2020 22:46, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with
bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it
is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on
was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack
to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture
whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use
removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on
a ride.

No, there is no such thing, it's just bad procedure.Â* I have lost count
of the number of times I've had conversations like "It needs a special
tyre for the fit", "I need a 500 ton press to get the tyre on", "I need
to cut the rim in half to remove the tyre".

I agree there is a skill involved, and with my current rims/tires I can
change most without levers, but I have had combinations that are vastly
harder to mount. For tough combinations, I used the old VAR tire
"jacks," of which I bought several before they seemed to go out of
production. They could mount ANYTHING, it seemed.

https://www.amazon.com/VAR-Nylon-Tir...ct_top?ie=UTF8

The VARs seemed necessary to me, for instance, to get a Michelin
"Hi-Lites" on Campagnolo aero-section Lambda rims. The combination was
a killer. New Velo-Flex tires seem to need the VARs on some rims too,
until the tires stretch a bit, then the hands are enough.

Mark J.

sms wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes tubeless
ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED sticky-tape
rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit there by the
side of the road wrestling with the tire like an over-glued tubular. You
can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a tire iron under the bead.
Time and crying makes it break loose.

Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless and went back to
using tubes on those rims. Tubeless tires on bicycles are the answer to
a question that nobody asked (except racers with support vehicles
following them).

It comes from MTBs where folks where doing it the Getto for years and
equally where due to the, lack of pressure and volume of the tyres it works
well not just on the internet, even with out tubeless rims and what not,
for road bikes the advantages are fairly marginal, and for all disciplines
it is something that requires maintenance ie the valves need cleaning and
the sealant needs topping up etc.

Personally across my bikes MTB/commuter/Gravel bike I’ve stuck to tubes
since I don’t like very low pressures anyhow nor are punctures a problem, I
do though see how they could work for some.

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft. That's for sissies. I once scootered
and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My wife did
come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called for the
ride. I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe. Double
tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with a Ti
plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and light.

I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of my Dahon Speed
TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no tire levers with me since
normally they are not necessary. I once bought some Performance "Forte"
700c tires and they were not possible to put on or take off without
levers. When you get the combination of wheels with "difficult" rims and
tires that may be a bit too small, it can require levers. I now have
pretty much switched to all Schwalbe tires and tubes and things are much
better.





Roger Merriman

On 2020-04-03 16:53:45 +0000, sms said:
These tire levers are no longer available, according to the link you included.
On 4/3/2020 12:02 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes
tubeless ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED
sticky-tape rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit
there by the side of the road wrestling with the tire like an
over-glued tubular. You can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a
tire iron under the bead. Time and crying makes it break loose.

Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless and went back to
using tubes on those rims. Tubeless tires on bicycles are the answer to
a question that nobody asked (except racers with support vehicles
following them).

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft.* That's for sissies.* I once
scootered and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My
wife did come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called
for the ride.* I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe.
Double tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with
a Ti plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and light.

I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of my Dahon Speed
TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no tire levers with me since
normally they are not necessary. I once bought some Performance "Forte"
700c tires and they were not possible to put on or take off without
levers. When you get the combination of wheels with "difficult" rims
and tires that may be a bit too small, it can require levers. I now
have pretty much switched to all Schwalbe tires and tubes and things
are much better.

The best tire levers I've found are the steel-core levers with plastic
coating. They don't break.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Foundation-305D-Steel-Tire-Lever-Set-Steel-Core-Tire-Lever-Set

Probably for the best as anyone that thinks they need steel cores levers
for bicycle tyres isn't doing it right.

On 17/06/2020 05:11, Arthur Ogus wrote:
On 2020-04-03 16:53:45 +0000, sms said:
These tire levers are no longer available, according to the link you
included.
On 4/3/2020 12:02 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes
tubeless ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED
sticky-tape rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit
there by the side of the road wrestling with the tire like an
over-glued tubular. You can't even get it out of the beadseat to get
a tire iron under the bead. Time and crying makes it break loose.

Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless and went back
to using tubes on those rims. Tubeless tires on bicycles are the
answer to a question that nobody asked (except racers with support
vehicles following them).

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft.Â* That's for sissies.Â* I once
scootered and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank.
My wife did come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he
called for the ride.Â* I had a broken hand but could have made it
home, maybe. Double tap is a killer with a broken hand. That
fracture was fixed with a Ti plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and
light.

I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of my Dahon Speed
TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no tire levers with me since
normally they are not necessary. I once bought some Performance
"Forte" 700c tires and they were not possible to put on or take off
without levers. When you get the combination of wheels with
"difficult" rims and tires that may be a bit too small, it can
require levers. I now have pretty much switched to all Schwalbe tires
and tubes and things are much better.

The best tire levers I've found are the steel-core levers with plastic
coating. They don't break.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Foundation-305D-Steel-Tire-Lever-Set-Steel-Core-Tire-Lever-Set

On 6/17/2020 8:44 AM, Tosspot wrote:
Probably for the best as anyone that thinks they need steel
cores levers for bicycle tyres isn't doing it right.

On 17/06/2020 05:11, Arthur Ogus wrote:
On 2020-04-03 16:53:45 +0000, sms said:
These tire levers are no longer available, according to
the link you included.
On 4/3/2020 12:02 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED
Ardennes tubeless ready rim. They stick to the
beadseats, and I think the HED sticky-tape rim strip
compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit there by
the side of the road wrestling with the tire like an
over-glued tubular. You can't even get it out of the
beadseat to get a tire iron under the bead. Time and
crying makes it break loose.

Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless
and went back to using tubes on those rims. Tubeless
tires on bicycles are the answer to a question that
nobody asked (except racers with support vehicles
following them).

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft. That's for
sissies. I once scootered and rode one-legged for 15
miles after breaking a crank. My wife did come and pick
me up after I crashed with my son, but he called for
the ride. I had a broken hand but could have made it
home, maybe. Double tap is a killer with a broken hand.
That fracture was fixed with a Ti plate -- made by
Moots. Super fast and light.

I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of
my Dahon Speed TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no
tire levers with me since normally they are not
necessary. I once bought some Performance "Forte" 700c
tires and they were not possible to put on or take off
without levers. When you get the combination of wheels
with "difficult" rims and tires that may be a bit too
small, it can require levers. I now have pretty much
switched to all Schwalbe tires and tubes and things are
much better.

The best tire levers I've found are the steel-core levers
with plastic coating. They don't break.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Foundation-305D-Steel-Tire-Lever-Set-Steel-Core-Tire-Lever-Set





Almost all of them work but I prefer my 50-year old Gripfast
and Cyclo British made steel levers. They're a bit longer
than most, slim, very broad and thin at the tire end and
worn very smooth on every surface. I've used everything but
these are my favorite style.

(the Inter Webs seem to have everything except an image of
these levers)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 8:11:28 PM UTC-7, Arthur Ogus wrote:
On 2020-04-03 16:53:45 +0000, sms said:
These tire levers are no longer available, according to the link you included.
On 4/3/2020 12:02 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes
tubeless ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED
sticky-tape rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit
there by the side of the road wrestling with the tire like an
over-glued tubular. You can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a
tire iron under the bead. Time and crying makes it break loose.

Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless and went back to
using tubes on those rims. Tubeless tires on bicycles are the answer to
a question that nobody asked (except racers with support vehicles
following them).

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft.Â* That's for sissies.Â* I once
scootered and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My
wife did come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called
for the ride.Â* I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe.
Double tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with
a Ti plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and light.

I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of my Dahon Speed
TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no tire levers with me since
normally they are not necessary. I once bought some Performance "Forte"
700c tires and they were not possible to put on or take off without
levers. When you get the combination of wheels with "difficult" rims
and tires that may be a bit too small, it can require levers. I now
have pretty much switched to all Schwalbe tires and tubes and things
are much better.

The best tire levers I've found are the steel-core levers with plastic
coating. They don't break.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Foundation-305D-Steel-Tire-Lever-Set-Steel-Core-Tire-Lever-Set


Tire "jacks" are available for bicycles now and they work terrific though the small ones that go in your seatpack take a little getting used to.

The shop model; https://www.ebay.com/itm/KOOL-STOP-B...8AAOSw9GhYcodD

The seatpack model: https://www.amazon.com/your-orders/p...ntId=Dh740vxMV