OT! Fact check

On Thursday, 23 April 2020 11:13:11 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

-- Jay Beattie.

Didn't an early draft of the US Constituon state The pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Property? iirc Property was changed so it'd be more popular.

Cheers

On 4/23/2020 12:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2020 11:13:11 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

-- Jay Beattie.

Didn't an early draft of the US Constituon state The pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Property? iirc Property was changed so it'd be more popular.

Cheers


It's inherently implicit anyway. Property rights and liberty
are inseparable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, 23 April 2020 13:46:29 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/23/2020 12:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2020 11:13:11 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S..
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

-- Jay Beattie.

Didn't an early draft of the US Constituon state The pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Property? iirc Property was changed so it'd be more popular.

Cheers


It's inherently implicit anyway. Property rights and liberty
are inseparable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Your property rights go out the window when they want to build something and decide to expropriate your property. You'll most likely not see anywhere near what the value of the property was to you.

Cheers

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 4:13:11 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

Dear blind squirrel,

For a Dem you're decidedly slack in the woke arena, Jay. Haven't you heard? It's racist to notice a squirrel's sight handicap.

the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way.

See, like I said, all Slow Johnny needed was some kiddie corner civics instruction. You have been told, Slow Johnny. Jay will not take it kindly when you make the same dumb mistake again.

The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law.

You don't say! From this distance and lack of hysteria about a property developer in the White House, it looks like the abdication of one party of its responsibilities in favour of childish tantrums being the problem. No intricacy is observable or required when adults (how old is Nancy Pelosi?) behave in such an intemperate manner.

IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

-- Jay Beattie.

Nah. Everyone except the Israeli (who have proportional representation and have only one party with some splinters from all over the spectrum with nothing in common except their hatred of Benjamin Netanyahu -- but they'll bull**** you a brilliant tale of the advantages of proportional representation) have only two parties, and both parties everywhere are equally dull and uninspired.

Andre Jute
Not that I agree with some of Jay's suspect phrasing, but Slow Johnny won't know or care

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 10:46:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/23/2020 12:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2020 11:13:11 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S..
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

-- Jay Beattie.

Didn't an early draft of the US Constituon state The pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Property? iirc Property was changed so it'd be more popular.

Cheers


It's inherently implicit anyway. Property rights and liberty
are inseparable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

5th Amendment -- ". . . nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

-- Jay Beattie

On 4/23/2020 12:48 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2020 13:46:29 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/23/2020 12:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2020 11:13:11 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

-- Jay Beattie.

Didn't an early draft of the US Constituon state The pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Property? iirc Property was changed so it'd be more popular.

Cheers


It's inherently implicit anyway. Property rights and liberty
are inseparable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Your property rights go out the window when they want to build something and decide to expropriate your property. You'll most likely not see anywhere near what the value of the property was to you.

Cheers


Agreed. My point exactly.

Where property rights are anemic, liberty is lost to that
same extent.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/23/2020 1:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 10:46:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/23/2020 12:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2020 11:13:11 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

-- Jay Beattie.

Didn't an early draft of the US Constituon state The pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Property? iirc Property was changed so it'd be more popular.

Cheers


It's inherently implicit anyway. Property rights and liberty
are inseparable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

5th Amendment -- ". . . nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

-- Jay Beattie


+1
Absolutely.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:13:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.


Amazing comment. Of course I know that the U.S. is not a true
democracy. And Yes, I know why the Electoral Collage was invented.
Good Lord, I even went to school and remembered what they said.

But would you like bet on whether the majority of, oh say, the first
100 people you meet walking down the street, would define the U.S. as
a democracy, or not?

Which, of course was my point.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

I hate to tell you but your statement that a "blind squirrel
occasionally finds a nut" is totally false as a blind squirrel would
have starved to death long before he grew old enough to eat a nut.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

I am amazed, you must have paid attention in class when you were in
school. But again, would you like to bet on the answers you would get
asking the first 100 people walking down the street in, oh say,
Seattle, if they lived in a democracy? Which, again, was the point of
my statement.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 4/23/2020 5:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:13:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.


Amazing comment. Of course I know that the U.S. is not a true
democracy. And Yes, I know why the Electoral Collage was invented.
Good Lord, I even went to school and remembered what they said.

But would you like bet on whether the majority of, oh say, the first
100 people you meet walking down the street, would define the U.S. as
a democracy, or not?

Which, of course was my point.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

I hate to tell you but your statement that a "blind squirrel
occasionally finds a nut" is totally false as a blind squirrel would
have starved to death long before he grew old enough to eat a nut.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

I am amazed, you must have paid attention in class when you were in
school. But again, would you like to bet on the answers you would get
asking the first 100 people walking down the street in, oh say,
Seattle, if they lived in a democracy? Which, again, was the point of
my statement.


Democracy is the system in which the Hutus wake up one
morning and decide to kill all the Tutsis. (in classic
analogy, two wolves and a sheep voting today's menu).

The United States of America is a constitutional republic of
sovereign States. Democracy is 'mob rule'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:29:20 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/23/2020 5:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:13:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:43:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:07:12 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

By the way, Hillary got the majority of the U.S. vote so had the U.S.
been a truly democratic country she would be the President.

John B.

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer. The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states. And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the majority discriminating permanently against the minority. It is the most successful governmental system, second only to the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't even know the first thing about it.


Amazing comment. Of course I know that the U.S. is not a true
democracy. And Yes, I know why the Electoral Collage was invented.
Good Lord, I even went to school and remembered what they said.

But would you like bet on whether the majority of, oh say, the first
100 people you meet walking down the street, would define the U.S. as
a democracy, or not?

Which, of course was my point.

One day -- soon I hope -- you will get something right, even if only because a blinds squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Until then, you too are an embarrassment.

I hate to tell you but your statement that a "blind squirrel
occasionally finds a nut" is totally false as a blind squirrel would
have starved to death long before he grew old enough to eat a nut.

Dear blind squirrel, the founders were divided into many camps. Those who favored a popular vote were afraid of powerful factions within government electing the president -- a possibly foreign influenced minority oppressing the majority. Some feared mob rule. The southern states didn't want a popular vote since slaves couldn't vote, and northern states would have more power. The over-all compromise was a hybrid state-and-population approach (with slaves being 3/5ths a person). Every state gets two senators and a number of representatives based on population, and electors are allocated in the same way. The problem/intricacy of the electoral system is the role of political parties and state law. IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.

I am amazed, you must have paid attention in class when you were in
school. But again, would you like to bet on the answers you would get
asking the first 100 people walking down the street in, oh say,
Seattle, if they lived in a democracy? Which, again, was the point of
my statement.


Democracy is the system in which the Hutus wake up one
morning and decide to kill all the Tutsis. (in classic
analogy, two wolves and a sheep voting today's menu).

Often followed by a second sentence, " Liberty is a well-armed lamb
contesting the vote."

The United States of America is a constitutional republic of
sovereign States. Democracy is 'mob rule'.
--
cheers,

John B.