B&M Toplight Line Plus vs. old 4D Toplight Senso Multi

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

as I posted in another thread I've been de-mothballing my bikes. I just need to buy a new lock (long story) and I can start riding again. However, as I was going over the Green Trek, I found that I needed to replace the batteries in the taillight, as some idiot who shall remain nameless had apparently thought that it had LSD NiMHs in it but actually had ancient alkalines in it and they'd completely died over the winter. Fortunately while they did swell and leak a little, no damage was done.

Old taillight is a 4D Toplight Senso Multi (now there's a mouthful) that I bought (mumble) years ago when I built the bike up with new 700C wheels and a Shimano dynohub. However when I installed a fresh set of batteries, the taillight stayed on for a disturbingly long period of time. The instructions say that it'll stay on for four minutes with no motion, but it was really more like half an hour. Long enough, in fact, that I got nervous and ordered a new taillight on eBay, which arrived today.

New taillight is a Toplight Line Plus. Unlike the old one, it doesn't use batteries for a standlight, nor does it have a fancy light or motion sensor to turn it on automatically. It simply follows your headlight, and has a capacitor in the housing for a four minute (again, according to the instructions) standlight functionality when you come to a stop. It was also significantly less expensive than my old taillight.

In practice, it seems like the two work pretty much the same, despite the complexity of the old one and the simplicity of the newer.

Pro (in my mind) of older one: if my headlight or dynohub fail completely, the 2xAA cells inside it will still give me a working taillight while I ride home.

Pro (in my mind) of newer one: smaller, less goofy looking. Simpler.

However, since my old taillight seems to be actually working OK I'm not sure it's worth even the 15 minutes' work to switch unless some lighting expert who's used both can say there's a safety advantage to using the Line Plus?

I've used them both and the Line Plus is a very much superior lamp. When it first appeared, the German police somewhere (maybe Hamburg) made some tests and liked it better than the then killer rear lamp, which was a Phillips. Also, in my own tests, the Line Plus was as good as the best previous lamp you could get (without the German civil service restriction that it come from the EU), which was a Cateye of which I've now forgotten the number, but it had multiple bubbles pointing rearwards and several to each side and both .Scharfie and I mentioned it often on this forum; it cost several times as much as the Line Plus. Also, because there is virtually nothing analog about it, the Line Plus will probably outlast your bike. It is definitely the right choice.

Andre Jute
Illuminated, illuminating, you choose

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 12:11:18 AM UTC+1, N8N wrote:
Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

as I posted in another thread I've been de-mothballing my bikes. I just need to buy a new lock (long story) and I can start riding again. However, as I was going over the Green Trek, I found that I needed to replace the batteries in the taillight, as some idiot who shall remain nameless had apparently thought that it had LSD NiMHs in it but actually had ancient alkalines in it and they'd completely died over the winter. Fortunately while they did swell and leak a little, no damage was done.

Old taillight is a 4D Toplight Senso Multi (now there's a mouthful) that I bought (mumble) years ago when I built the bike up with new 700C wheels and a Shimano dynohub. However when I installed a fresh set of batteries, the taillight stayed on for a disturbingly long period of time. The instructions say that it'll stay on for four minutes with no motion, but it was really more like half an hour. Long enough, in fact, that I got nervous and ordered a new taillight on eBay, which arrived today.

New taillight is a Toplight Line Plus. Unlike the old one, it doesn't use batteries for a standlight, nor does it have a fancy light or motion sensor to turn it on automatically. It simply follows your headlight, and has a capacitor in the housing for a four minute (again, according to the instructions) standlight functionality when you come to a stop. It was also significantly less expensive than my old taillight.

In practice, it seems like the two work pretty much the same, despite the complexity of the old one and the simplicity of the newer.

Pro (in my mind) of older one: if my headlight or dynohub fail completely, the 2xAA cells inside it will still give me a working taillight while I ride home.

Pro (in my mind) of newer one: smaller, less goofy looking. Simpler.

However, since my old taillight seems to be actually working OK I'm not sure it's worth even the 15 minutes' work to switch unless some lighting expert who's used both can say there's a safety advantage to using the Line Plus?

Hah. and now that you talked it up I find that the "cheap" Line Plus that I got won't fit on my rack. I didn't even realize that the bolt spacing wasn't standardized; now I know. Ah well live and learn. That's far from the most expensive lesson I've received.

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 10:37:03 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
I've used them both and the Line Plus is a very much superior lamp. When it first appeared, the German police somewhere (maybe Hamburg) made some tests and liked it better than the then killer rear lamp, which was a Phillips. Also, in my own tests, the Line Plus was as good as the best previous lamp you could get (without the German civil service restriction that it come from the EU), which was a Cateye of which I've now forgotten the number, but it had multiple bubbles pointing rearwards and several to each side and both .Scharfie and I mentioned it often on this forum; it cost several times as much as the Line Plus. Also, because there is virtually nothing analog about it, the Line Plus will probably outlast your bike. It is definitely the right choice.

Andre Jute
Illuminated, illuminating, you choose

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 12:11:18 AM UTC+1, N8N wrote:
Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

as I posted in another thread I've been de-mothballing my bikes. I just need to buy a new lock (long story) and I can start riding again. However, as I was going over the Green Trek, I found that I needed to replace the batteries in the taillight, as some idiot who shall remain nameless had apparently thought that it had LSD NiMHs in it but actually had ancient alkalines in it and they'd completely died over the winter. Fortunately while they did swell and leak a little, no damage was done.

Old taillight is a 4D Toplight Senso Multi (now there's a mouthful) that I bought (mumble) years ago when I built the bike up with new 700C wheels and a Shimano dynohub. However when I installed a fresh set of batteries, the taillight stayed on for a disturbingly long period of time. The instructions say that it'll stay on for four minutes with no motion, but it was really more like half an hour. Long enough, in fact, that I got nervous and ordered a new taillight on eBay, which arrived today.

New taillight is a Toplight Line Plus. Unlike the old one, it doesn't use batteries for a standlight, nor does it have a fancy light or motion sensor to turn it on automatically. It simply follows your headlight, and has a capacitor in the housing for a four minute (again, according to the instructions) standlight functionality when you come to a stop. It was also significantly less expensive than my old taillight.

In practice, it seems like the two work pretty much the same, despite the complexity of the old one and the simplicity of the newer.

Pro (in my mind) of older one: if my headlight or dynohub fail completely, the 2xAA cells inside it will still give me a working taillight while I ride home.

Pro (in my mind) of newer one: smaller, less goofy looking. Simpler.

However, since my old taillight seems to be actually working OK I'm not sure it's worth even the 15 minutes' work to switch unless some lighting expert who's used both can say there's a safety advantage to using the Line Plus?

On 4/25/2020 11:03 AM, N8N wrote:
Hah. and now that you talked it up I find that the "cheap" Line Plus that I got won't fit on my rack. I didn't even realize that the bolt spacing wasn't standardized; now I know. Ah well live and learn. That's far from the most expensive lesson I've received.

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 10:37:03 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
I've used them both and the Line Plus is a very much superior lamp. When it first appeared, the German police somewhere (maybe Hamburg) made some tests and liked it better than the then killer rear lamp, which was a Phillips. Also, in my own tests, the Line Plus was as good as the best previous lamp you could get (without the German civil service restriction that it come from the EU), which was a Cateye of which I've now forgotten the number, but it had multiple bubbles pointing rearwards and several to each side and both .Scharfie and I mentioned it often on this forum; it cost several times as much as the Line Plus. Also, because there is virtually nothing analog about it, the Line Plus will probably outlast your bike. It is definitely the right choice.

It was the Cateye TL-LD1100. The other advantage of it was that it used
AA, not AAA batteries. As the remaining new-old-stock has dwindled the
price has skyrocketed. It fits standard rear rack light brackets.

It was so good that it had to be discontinued.

“If you find something you really, really like, buy a lifetime supply;
because it'll either be changed for the worse or go out of production.�
– Grant Peterson, founder of Rivendell Bicycle Works.

N8N wrote:
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 10:37:03 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 12:11:18 AM UTC+1, N8N wrote:

as I posted in another thread I've been de-mothballing my bikes. I
just need to buy a new lock (long story) and I can start riding
again. However, as I was going over the Green Trek, I found that I
needed to replace the batteries in the taillight, as some idiot who
shall remain nameless had apparently thought that it had LSD NiMHs in
it but actually had ancient alkalines in it and they'd completely
died over the winter. Fortunately while they did swell and leak a
little, no damage was done.

Old taillight is a 4D Toplight Senso Multi (now there's a mouthful)
that I bought (mumble) years ago when I built the bike up with new
700C wheels and a Shimano dynohub. However when I installed a fresh
set of batteries, the taillight stayed on for a disturbingly long
period of time. The instructions say that it'll stay on for four
minutes with no motion, but it was really more like half an hour.
Long enough, in fact, that I got nervous and ordered a new taillight
on eBay, which arrived today.

New taillight is a Toplight Line Plus. Unlike the old one, it
doesn't use batteries for a standlight, nor does it have a fancy
light or motion sensor to turn it on automatically. It simply
follows your headlight, and has a capacitor in the housing for a four
minute (again, according to the instructions) standlight
functionality when you come to a stop. It was also significantly
less expensive than my old taillight.

Even if they are sufficiently waterproof, the price/ugliness ratio of the
Line versions with battery compartment could be a nagging issue, especially
without wide black fenders.

http://en.bumm.de/produkte/akku-ruec...ight-line.html

In practice, it seems like the two work pretty much the same, despite
the complexity of the old one and the simplicity of the newer.

Pro (in my mind) of older one: if my headlight or dynohub fail
completely, the 2xAA cells inside it will still give me a working
taillight while I ride home.

Pro (in my mind) of newer one: smaller, less goofy looking.
Simpler.

However, since my old taillight seems to be actually working OK I'm
not sure it's worth even the 15 minutes' work to switch unless some
lighting expert who's used both can say there's a safety advantage to
using the Line Plus?

Sorry, no known record of anyone getting hurt just because they used a B&M
4D instead of a Line+. I'd say the Line+ is way more conspicuous, but as we
know, a super piercing flasher is safest in California strength fog.

I've used them both and the Line Plus is a very much superior lamp.
When it first appeared, the German police somewhere (maybe Hamburg)
made some tests and liked it better than the then killer rear lamp,
which was a Phillips. Also, in my own tests, the Line Plus was as good
as the best previous lamp you could get (without the German civil
service restriction that it come from the EU), which was a Cateye of
which I've now forgotten the number, but it had multiple bubbles
pointing rearwards and several to each side and both .Scharfie and I
mentioned it often on this forum; it cost several times as much as the
Line Plus. Also, because there is virtually nothing analog about it,
the Line Plus will probably outlast your bike. It is definitely the
right choice.

There is a risk of internal parts eventually falling off in traditional B&M
(and finest British car part) fashion, but the Line+ has been reported to be
more reliable than the Line brake+ version.

Hah. and now that you talked it up I find that the "cheap" Line Plus
that I got won't fit on my rack. I didn't even realize that the bolt
spacing wasn't standardized; now I know. Ah well live and learn. That's
far from the most expensive lesson I've received.

If you don't like the idea of fitting an adapter plate, you could opt to get
a new rack, some will accomodate either bolt spacings.

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 4:02:02 PM UTC-4, Sepp Ruf wrote:


If you don't like the idea of fitting an adapter plate, you could opt to get
a new rack, some will accomodate either bolt spacings.

I'm not offended by the idea, I just don't know where to get one. I can envision it in my head, a strip of metal with two studs at 50mm and two holes at 80mm, I just don't have the ability to make it in my current situation (I just moved, and most of my tolls are in a storage locker in another state), and we're on lockdown here in MD so I can't just go to the local bike store and browse. Surprisingly a web search did not turn up what I was envisioning. If your google-fu is better than mine, I'd appreciate a link, that way I could try my new toy. Or I could just spend another $30 and ensure that I get the right Line Plus this time.

nate

On Sunday, April 26, 2020 at 1:23:49 PM UTC+1, N8N wrote:
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 4:02:02 PM UTC-4, Sepp Ruf wrote:


If you don't like the idea of fitting an adapter plate, you could opt to get
a new rack, some will accomodate either bolt spacings.

I'm not offended by the idea, I just don't know where to get one. I can envision it in my head, a strip of metal with two studs at 50mm and two holes at 80mm, I just don't have the ability to make it in my current situation (I just moved, and most of my tolls are in a storage locker in another state), and we're on lockdown here in MD so I can't just go to the local bike store and browse. Surprisingly a web search did not turn up what I was envisioning. If your google-fu is better than mine, I'd appreciate a link, that way I could try my new toy. Or I could just spend another $30 and ensure that I get the right Line Plus this time.

nate

As a temporary measure, cut a piece of a plastic tub to size, and use a barbecue spike or a corkscrew to make small holes in it which bolts can enlarge -- if you have bolts -- or otherwise use twine or some wire to tie the plastic makeshift to your present stand.

As an aside... For sixty bucks I'd want a prettier lamp than the Line Plus, not matter how well it works otherwise, and that it should at least include a powerful blinkie as well, something German legislators conspired to deny us.

Andre Jute
Not a BUMMbuddy

N8N wrote:
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 4:02:02 PM UTC-4, Sepp Ruf wrote:

If you don't like the idea of fitting an adapter plate, you could opt
to get a new rack, some will accomodate either bolt spacings.

I'm not offended by the idea, I just don't know where to get one. I can
envision it in my head, a strip of metal with two studs at 50mm and two
holes at 80mm, I just don't have the ability to make it in my current
situation (I just moved, and most of my tolls are in a storage locker in
another state), and we're on lockdown here in MD so I can't just go to
the local bike store and browse. Surprisingly a web search did not turn
up what I was envisioning.

Oehler or PJW might know more adapters, the one I found online is a simple
part by Pletscher to be mounted centrally, I remember it's not easily bent,
and sort of heavy (not aluminum):
https://www.veloplus.ch/images/shop/...203249_07g.jpg

If your google-fu is better than mine, I'd
appreciate a link, that way I could try my new toy. Or I could just
spend another $30 and ensure that I get the right Line Plus this time.

It will pay for itself if you drive down to Cushing to save a lot on gas.;-)

On 4/26/2020 8:23 AM, N8N wrote:
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 4:02:02 PM UTC-4, Sepp Ruf wrote:


If you don't like the idea of fitting an adapter plate, you could opt to get
a new rack, some will accomodate either bolt spacings.

I'm not offended by the idea, I just don't know where to get one. I can envision it in my head, a strip of metal with two studs at 50mm and two holes at 80mm, I just don't have the ability to make it in my current situation (I just moved, and most of my tolls are in a storage locker in another state)...

Off topic, but I'd be very anxious about moving into new digs without at
least a reasonable selection of my tools. I take a collection of common
tools on any road trip.

There's a family we frequently visit for a couple days at a time. When
headed there, I normally toss my large tool tray into our car, just in
case. And when trying to help out by fixing things there, I've been
frustrated that they lack my collection of scrap metal, odd fasteners,
etc. I've stashed a big box of leftover bit and parts in their garage
and said "This is mine. Please don't throw it out. It's for future
projects."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/26/2020 6:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/26/2020 8:23 AM, N8N wrote:
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 4:02:02 PM UTC-4, Sepp Ruf
wrote:


If you don't like the idea of fitting an adapter plate,
you could opt to get
a new rack, some will accomodate either bolt spacings.

I'm not offended by the idea, I just don't know where to
get one. I can envision it in my head, a strip of metal
with two studs at 50mm and two holes at 80mm, I just don't
have the ability to make it in my current situation (I
just moved, and most of my tolls are in a storage locker
in another state)...

Off topic, but I'd be very anxious about moving into new
digs without at least a reasonable selection of my tools. I
take a collection of common tools on any road trip.

There's a family we frequently visit for a couple days at a
time. When headed there, I normally toss my large tool tray
into our car, just in case. And when trying to help out by
fixing things there, I've been frustrated that they lack my
collection of scrap metal, odd fasteners, etc. I've stashed
a big box of leftover bit and parts in their garage and said
"This is mine. Please don't throw it out. It's for future
projects."



Excellent points. And not only hand tools.

One of my favorite columnists over the years (now with
podcasts!) had a brush with death over Christmas and was
diagnosed with a 'lifestyle failure' syndrome. Since his
sons are grown, he recently sold his house and moved to an
apartment. The sadness in his voice was notable as he
described the first Greek Easter of his life without
roasting a lamb over fire.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971