DOT Fluid

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 22:52:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/18/2020 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:22:03 +0200, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Am 18.06.2020 um 08:32 schrieb John B.:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:07:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:48:38 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Someone cautioned that DOT brake fluid, in bicycle disk brakes, should
be changed annually.
Is this correct? A requirement of the disk makers? Or ?

Never heard of that requirement. In my car is is changed every 2 years.

Somebody here, talking about bicycle disk brakes mentioned that DOT
liquid must be changed annually while mineral oil did not require
this.

As the DOT brake oil in my pickup truck has been there for probably 20
years without being changed I asked the question.

Outch. DOT brake fluid (as opposed to mineral oil) is strongly
hygroscopic, i.e. it absorbs water, changing it properties
significantly. Therefore, DOT brake fluid must be changed regularly; in
Europe, the age of brake fluid is one of the safety checks that need to
be documented every 2 years, or the car will be taken out of service.
If your truck was 40 years old instead of 20, it might still have the
old mineral oil that doesn't need changing

In cars and motorbikes, the exchange interval is every two years
irrespective of mileage. Possibly, in bicycles it has to be changed
more often due to the smaller brake fluid container, or possibly the
bike manufacturers are just more cautios if they stipulate annual change.

Given that bicycles have significantly lower problems with overheating,
mineral oil seems more appropriate than DOT fluid for bicycle brakes.

Rolf

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

I didn't change the brake fluid on our previous car. I believe that's
why I had to eventually replace a sticking front brake caliper.

Perhaps, although as I said, I've never in about 70 years changed
brake fluid and I really can't remember ever changing any part of the
brake system on any vehicle that I've had.

But then, I've never had an insurmountable problem with any bicycle
I've owned, or car, or wife, or job, or, or, or :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 04:40:14 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 05:53:05 +0700, John B. wrote:



While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service manual
and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

Err, did you ever have it serviced under one of those routine services
based on distance and time?

Whilst I've never performed a change, I've always found it easier on my
time to just pay the local garage, in the past and the dealer now, to
carry out these services and some of them have invoiced brake fluid.

Well, yes. I've bought my wife a new Honda sedan every 10 years,
regular as clock work, and she has her car serviced by the Honda
Dealer. So that is about 20 years (she is on her 3rd car ), and so far
no bills for changing brake fluid.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 19/06/2020 00:53, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:22:03 +0200, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Am 18.06.2020 um 08:32 schrieb John B.:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:07:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:48:38 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Someone cautioned that DOT brake fluid, in bicycle disk brakes, should
be changed annually.
Is this correct? A requirement of the disk makers? Or ?

Never heard of that requirement. In my car is is changed every 2 years.

Somebody here, talking about bicycle disk brakes mentioned that DOT
liquid must be changed annually while mineral oil did not require
this.

As the DOT brake oil in my pickup truck has been there for probably 20
years without being changed I asked the question.

Outch. DOT brake fluid (as opposed to mineral oil) is strongly
hygroscopic, i.e. it absorbs water, changing it properties
significantly. Therefore, DOT brake fluid must be changed regularly; in
Europe, the age of brake fluid is one of the safety checks that need to
be documented every 2 years, or the car will be taken out of service.
If your truck was 40 years old instead of 20, it might still have the
old mineral oil that doesn't need changing

In cars and motorbikes, the exchange interval is every two years
irrespective of mileage. Possibly, in bicycles it has to be changed
more often due to the smaller brake fluid container, or possibly the
bike manufacturers are just more cautios if they stipulate annual change.

Given that bicycles have significantly lower problems with overheating,
mineral oil seems more appropriate than DOT fluid for bicycle brakes.

Rolf

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

That's odd.

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...honda-2016-crv

Implies every 2 or 3 years. Here the same

https://www.cars.com/articles/how-of...1420680336417/

It must be a silicone fluid. My CBR will not manage 4 years without
clutch and brake fluid changes, I've tried it and what comes out isn't
worth ****, and I tried it because of noticeable brake performance
degradation.

John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 22:52:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2020 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:22:03 +0200, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 18.06.2020 um 08:32 schrieb John B.:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:07:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:48:38 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Someone cautioned that DOT brake fluid, in bicycle disk brakes, should
be changed annually.
Is this correct? A requirement of the disk makers? Or ?

Never heard of that requirement. In my car is is changed every 2 years.

Somebody here, talking about bicycle disk brakes mentioned that DOT
liquid must be changed annually while mineral oil did not require
this.

As the DOT brake oil in my pickup truck has been there for probably 20
years without being changed I asked the question.

Outch. DOT brake fluid (as opposed to mineral oil) is strongly
hygroscopic, i.e. it absorbs water, changing it properties
significantly. Therefore, DOT brake fluid must be changed regularly; in
Europe, the age of brake fluid is one of the safety checks that need to
be documented every 2 years, or the car will be taken out of service.

I thought they are checking the fluid's appearance and density (water
content), not the age per se.

If your truck was 40 years old instead of 20, it might still have the
old mineral oil that doesn't need changing

In cars and motorbikes, the exchange interval is every two years
irrespective of mileage. Possibly, in bicycles it has to be changed
more often due to the smaller brake fluid container, or possibly the
bike manufacturers are just more cautios if they stipulate annual change.

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

Face it, it's more simple: You spent 85% of those 70 years in the age of
plunger and cable-pull brakes!

I didn't change the brake fluid on our previous car. I believe that's
why I had to eventually replace a sticking front brake caliper.

Perhaps, although as I said, I've never in about 70 years changed
brake fluid and I really can't remember ever changing any part of the
brake system on any vehicle that I've had.

But then, I've never had an insurmountable problem with any bicycle
I've owned, or car, or wife, or job, or, or, or :-)

In case one might eventually develop with your car and your wife ... aren't
there very nice mountain roads to drive down in Northern Thailand? Do have
her load up the Honda with trendy gravel for your garden's bike track, or
bricks, as Lou's bucolic bike photo proved that brickroad bikes will be the
next big thing after the current gravel craze has faded.

Do not forget to also loosen the hand brake so the Tropical Holsteins in the
valley can get a spectacular shot ...
https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/westfalen-lippe/rinderherde-blitzer-bielefeld-100~_v-gseapremiumxl.jpg

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 10:32:33 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 22:52:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2020 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:22:03 +0200, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 18.06.2020 um 08:32 schrieb John B.:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:07:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:48:38 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Someone cautioned that DOT brake fluid, in bicycle disk brakes, should
be changed annually.
Is this correct? A requirement of the disk makers? Or ?

Never heard of that requirement. In my car is is changed every 2 years.

Somebody here, talking about bicycle disk brakes mentioned that DOT
liquid must be changed annually while mineral oil did not require
this.

As the DOT brake oil in my pickup truck has been there for probably 20
years without being changed I asked the question.

Outch. DOT brake fluid (as opposed to mineral oil) is strongly
hygroscopic, i.e. it absorbs water, changing it properties
significantly. Therefore, DOT brake fluid must be changed regularly; in
Europe, the age of brake fluid is one of the safety checks that need to
be documented every 2 years, or the car will be taken out of service.

I thought they are checking the fluid's appearance and density (water
content), not the age per se.

If your truck was 40 years old instead of 20, it might still have the
old mineral oil that doesn't need changing

In cars and motorbikes, the exchange interval is every two years
irrespective of mileage. Possibly, in bicycles it has to be changed
more often due to the smaller brake fluid container, or possibly the
bike manufacturers are just more cautios if they stipulate annual change.

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

Face it, it's more simple: You spent 85% of those 70 years in the age of
plunger and cable-pull brakes!

I didn't change the brake fluid on our previous car. I believe that's
why I had to eventually replace a sticking front brake caliper.

Perhaps, although as I said, I've never in about 70 years changed
brake fluid and I really can't remember ever changing any part of the
brake system on any vehicle that I've had.

But then, I've never had an insurmountable problem with any bicycle
I've owned, or car, or wife, or job, or, or, or :-)

In case one might eventually develop with your car and your wife ... aren't
there very nice mountain roads to drive down in Northern Thailand? Do have
her load up the Honda with trendy gravel for your garden's bike track, or
bricks, as Lou's bucolic bike photo proved that brickroad bikes will be the
next big thing after the current gravel craze has faded.

Well, no, there aren't really any large mountain sort of things in
N.E. Thailand where we live. There is one long hill heading toward
Bangkok, probably 1,000ft. in several kilometers. But put gravel in
her car? You are Mad! That's what the pickup is for :-)

Do not forget to also loosen the hand brake so the Tropical Holsteins in the
valley can get a spectacular shot ...
https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/westfalen-lippe/rinderherde-blitzer-bielefeld-100~_v-gseapremiumxl.jpg

Not to many milk cows here, but a lot of Water Buffalo :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:55:44 +0700, John B. wrote:


Not to many milk cows here, but a lot of Water Buffalo :-)

What % are dairy?

Hmm, mozzarella.

On 6/18/2020 10:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 20:47:00 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.


The manual for my 2009 Honda Fit calls for changing the brake fluid every three
years.

I just located an on line references to changing Honda brake and ATF
fluid and yes the dealer does recommend changing brake fluid every
30,000 miles or 3 years, depending on what site I read. They also
recommend changing the ATF fluid and again I found a 30,000 mile
reference but I don't know whether that is the official Honda figure
and I also find reference to changing the radiator coo lent with,
again, unofficial mention of a 30,000 mile interval.

Apparently the only liquid that you don't have to specifically change
is the gasoline :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


heh heh heh not so fast with that!

I wrecked a car (one might say the deer wrecked it...) and
left it parked with a tank of ethanol gasoline for two years
before giving the engine to my brother for his 1962
convertible. Ethanol gasoline grows
algae/mold/crud/invasive species amazingly well. Tank, fuel
lines, fuel pump and all the carburetors were a sludge of
green-brown slime. Very tenacious slime I might add.

I changed back to no-ethanol fuel for those and other
reasons. It's only a bit more expensive.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/18/2020 3:53 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

A repair shop will normally change the brake fluid when they replace
brake pads, it's not routine maintenance, it's replacing a wear item
(both the pads and the fluid). If you do the brake jobs yourself you may
not have known that it was a good idea to change the fluid.

On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 7:17:34 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 6/18/2020 3:53 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

A repair shop will normally change the brake fluid when they replace
brake pads, it's not routine maintenance, it's replacing a wear item
(both the pads and the fluid). If you do the brake jobs yourself you may
not have known that it was a good idea to change the fluid.

I'm trying to picture John doing anything himself. Nor you for that matter.

John B. writes:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 20:47:00 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

While I don'tÂ* doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.


The manual for my 2009 Honda Fit calls for changing the brake fluid
every three
years.

I just located an on line references to changing Honda brake and ATF
fluid and yes the dealer does recommend changing brake fluid every
30,000 miles or 3 years, depending on what site I read. They also
recommend changing the ATF fluid and again I found a 30,000 mile
reference but I don't know whether that is the official Honda figure
and I also find reference to changing the radiator coo lent with,
again, unofficial mention of a 30,000 mile interval.

Apparently the only liquid that you don't have to specifically change
is the gasoline :-)

That can actually be a problem for plug-in hybrid cars. If you never
use the IC engine, at least in Massachusetts, you'll fail inspection.

https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/20...-coronaplague/