Fitment question

Dan Daniel wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:10:50 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:


Dan Daniel wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:50:23 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:




On another note, I do have carpal which I've treated with splints to the
best outcome w/o surgery. I can't afford the surgery (no insurance) so
I'm stuck with this. I'm guessing the numb hands are related to my
carpal syndrome. Has anybody any ideas (other than switching positions
regularly) to relieve this numbness?

TIA.

-Paul


Be sure that the saddle is not tilted forward at all. If it is tilted,
you will be constantly supporting weight on the hands. Another way to
reduce the hand pressure is to raise the bars, but if the saddle is
tilting forward you will still have the problem.

I'm unsure. I'll check. You think pressure on hands causes the numbness?


Oh, I know it can. I've had numbness that went away after tilting the
saddle back a bit. It's not the only cause but it's a good starting
point.



I figured it was the angle of my hand to wrist causing a nerve pinch.



That can be a problem, especially if you have some carpal tunnel
problems already. Have you tried rotating the brake levers to
different positions? In general, I think that people's tendency is to
have the brake levers point too far forward. I like them pointing
down, maybe 30 degrees off perpindicular to the ground? Take the
proper wrench and ride around a bit and play with the angle.

Thanks. I'll try gloves and on my bike rotating the brake levers. The
road bike has drops so the issue isn't there, but the numbness is.

-paul

Dan Daniel wrote:
On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:10:50 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:


Dan Daniel wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:50:23 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:




On another note, I do have carpal which I've treated with splints to the
best outcome w/o surgery. I can't afford the surgery (no insurance) so
I'm stuck with this. I'm guessing the numb hands are related to my
carpal syndrome. Has anybody any ideas (other than switching positions
regularly) to relieve this numbness?

TIA.

-Paul


Be sure that the saddle is not tilted forward at all. If it is tilted,
you will be constantly supporting weight on the hands. Another way to
reduce the hand pressure is to raise the bars, but if the saddle is
tilting forward you will still have the problem.

I'm unsure. I'll check. You think pressure on hands causes the numbness?


Oh, I know it can. I've had numbness that went away after tilting the
saddle back a bit. It's not the only cause but it's a good starting
point.

It's definitely a factor. Didn't Badger mention not long ago that he
adjusted his saddle tilt back just a touch, and his wrist pain went
away? There's another example for you.

I'm having some fit issues with my new bike myself -- did a 30 mile ride
on Monday, and here it's Wednesday and the bases of the palms of my
hands are still tingling. My saddle is absolutely level, so that's not
the issue. I'm thinking maybe I'm just not adjusting to the more laid
out position on my sport road, after not having a road bike for 30
years, because by the book everything is adjusted where it should be.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:03:24 GMT, the black rose
wrote:

It's definitely a factor. Didn't Badger mention not long ago that he
adjusted his saddle tilt back just a touch, and his wrist pain went
away? There's another example for you.

I'm having some fit issues with my new bike myself -- did a 30 mile ride
on Monday, and here it's Wednesday and the bases of the palms of my
hands are still tingling. My saddle is absolutely level, so that's not
the issue. I'm thinking maybe I'm just not adjusting to the more laid
out position on my sport road, after not having a road bike for 30
years, because by the book everything is adjusted where it should be.

-km

Yes that solved the problem mostly, but I still get some of the numbness at
times. A simple flexing of the arm, and shaking the hand out and it
decreases. I have a feeling my H/B are still too low, but have been trying
to adapt. I probably would do well to flip the stem, which would raise the
H/B another 1/2", it appears.

Are you able to ride OK without hands? That can be an indicator of the best
saddle position, imo. IOW, even though the saddle is level using a
carpenter's level, in conjunction with your anatomic sit position, it might
be tilting you one way or another.

How radical is the difference between the seat height and the handlebars?
My pet theory is that if you start with the handlebars higher than usual,
and the symptoms go away, then you can incrementally lower it in stages and
see if the problem recurs. Then you go back a click and you're there.

-B

the black rose wrote:


It's definitely a factor. Didn't Badger mention not long ago that he
adjusted his saddle tilt back just a touch, and his wrist pain went
away? There's another example for you.

I'm having some fit issues with my new bike myself -- did a 30 mile ride
on Monday, and here it's Wednesday and the bases of the palms of my
hands are still tingling.

I can't speak to fitment, but I know that having tingling for that long
must be quite damaging in the long run if that continues. This carpal,
which started for me with just such tingling (not from bikes) is
terrible. I sometimes drop things just because I lose my grip sensiblity.

I strongly suggest you take such long term tingling / numbness seriously
and address it. I wouldn't wish this carpal condition on anybody (well,
few folks maybe).

-paul

Badger_South wrote:
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:03:24 GMT, the black rose
wrote:


--snip--
I'm having some fit issues with my new bike myself -- did a 30 mile ride
on Monday, and here it's Wednesday and the bases of the palms of my
hands are still tingling. My saddle is absolutely level, so that's not
the issue. I'm thinking maybe I'm just not adjusting to the more laid
out position on my sport road, after not having a road bike for 30
years, because by the book everything is adjusted where it should be.

-km


--snip--

Are you able to ride OK without hands? That can be an indicator of the best
saddle position, imo. IOW, even though the saddle is level using a
carpenter's level, in conjunction with your anatomic sit position, it might
be tilting you one way or another.

Hmm, I have no idea how to evaluate that. As a female, I am *highly*
reluctant to tilt the saddle nose up. The idea makes me cringe. I
noodled around with the fore-aft position of the saddle and ended up
inadvertantly tilting it down and got more pressure on my hands. LBS
leveled it back for me (before the 30 mile ride -- which, by the way, is
my longest ride so far this summer since getting on the bike again).

And nope, I can't ride without hands, never been able to. I wish I
could, but at my age, I have no idea how to learn.

How radical is the difference between the seat height and the handlebars?

It's not. They're close to level with each other, and I'm positive the
difference is less than an inch. I should go out and look, really, but
there's a whole lot of heavy rain falling between my cozy house and my
detached garage right now. (Remnants of Frances dripping on us -- as if
we need even MORE rain than we've already gotten this summer, argh.)

I know that raising the stem will usually bring the handlebar a bit
closer to the saddle, depending on the head tube angle. My bike has one
of those ding-dangled adjustable stems (already adjusted all the way up
and back), so I have NO clue how to adjust it further.

Eh, okay, I waded out there. The top of the handlebar is 1 cm higher
than the top of the saddle. I took a look at the stem and decided I
still don't have a clue how to make further adjustments. I'll have to
ask the guys at the bike shop.

My pet theory is that if you start with the handlebars higher than usual,
and the symptoms go away, then you can incrementally lower it in stages and
see if the problem recurs. Then you go back a click and you're there.

I may have to switch to a more standard stem to test that theory, which
is probably worth pursuing. It would have the side effect of making my
bike a bit lighter, too, since the adjustable stem is a good bit heavier
than the stem Cannondale puts on its other road bikes.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

How radical is the difference between the seat height and the handlebars?
My pet theory is that if you start with the handlebars higher than usual,
and the symptoms go away, then you can incrementally lower it in stages and
see if the problem recurs. Then you go back a click and you're there.

-Ba
A couple of other ideas.
I ride with really low handle bars compared to the seat. I am very
flexible in the lower back and find this position to be comfortable
and aerodynamic as well. And I don't have a problem with numb hands.
So, I think there are a couple of other variables to look at.
First, are you able to ride with a slight flex at the elbow? The flex
is in effect a shock absorber. Most of the folks that I have seen ride
who complain of hand problems apper to me to have locked elbows. I
believe that this causes lots of unnecessary stress in the entire
upper body.
Second, and this is a bit hard to improve in the short run, what is
your core strength? Even though I ride in a very low position I have
good core strength and in fact am not just letting all my upper body
wieght just lay on my hands. Especially on rough road sections, bumps,
etc I am holding lots of the weight by my core muscles and not having
all that add to the shock on the hands/arms.

I'm not arguing against proper bike fit, and if a change in saddle
position or another simple change fixes the problem you are all set.
But I find that often sports injuries are related to deficiencies in
overall fitness/strength.

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:37:36 GMT, the black rose
wrote:


--snip--
I'm having some fit issues with my new bike myself -- did a 30 mile ride
on Monday, and here it's Wednesday and the bases of the palms of my
hands are still tingling. My saddle is absolutely level, so that's not
the issue. I'm thinking maybe I'm just not adjusting to the more laid
out position on my sport road, after not having a road bike for 30
years, because by the book everything is adjusted where it should be.

-km




Hi, not long after I got my LeMond, I did a longer ride than I was
used to. I had numbing problems, that took a long time to go away. I
found that besides the saddle angle and bar height, that it was how I
was resting my hands on the bars. I ride on the hoods a lot and what I
was doing, was putting all my weight on the heels of my hands.
Obviously, now anyway, that is a bad thing to do. I try to grip the
hoods from the sides, keeping my palms off the bars, as much as
possible. It is not perfect, but it helps.
I'm still experimenting with gloves too. I'm finding that light
padding like the Pearl Izumi White Lines are better than those with
thick padding. I tried the Ironman Elites and returned them after one
ride. It didn't hurt the arguement for return, when a seam split,
during that first ride.
I am now also using Specialized Bar Phat which has gel pads under the
tape. That may be why lightly padded gloves are working better, for
me.


Life is Good!
Jeff

Wed, 08 Sep 2004 23:25:29 -0500,
, Jeff Starr
wrote:

I am now also using Specialized Bar Phat which has gel pads under the
tape. That may be why lightly padded gloves are working better, for
me.

The larger diameter of the bar is probably as significant as whether
it's taped with foam or gel.
Seams inside the gloves deserve attention when looking for comfortable
gloves.
--
zk

Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:37:36 GMT,
,
the black rose wrote:

And nope, I can't ride without hands, never been able to. I wish I
could, but at my age, I have no idea how to learn.

Steer with your root chakra.
--
zk

Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:03:24 GMT,
, the black rose
wrote:

I'm thinking maybe I'm just not adjusting to the more laid
out position on my sport road, after not having a road bike for 30
years, because by the book everything is adjusted where it should be.

Cold weather accentuates the problem.
There is a period of adjustment. Your hands will "harden" somewhat as
you ride more. Numbness in the ring finger and pinky are bad signs.

My hands suffered permanent nerve damage during my hiatus. For the
first six months after I returned to cycling they caused me more
discomfort than they do now.

.. . . well, except for the lingering effects of a sprained right wrist
and thumb 9 weeks ago.
--
zk