What's the point?

What's the point of clip less pedals. People ride happily with flat pedals.

What's the point of gear levers integrated with the brake levers?
People ride happily with gear levers on the down tube, or no gears at all!

What's the point of disc brakes? People happily use rim brakes.

What's the point of multitudes of bottom bracket bearing designs?
People ride happily with regular square tapered axles and cranks to fit.

What's the point of through axles? People ride happily with quick
release axles or solid axles.

What's the point of A-Head head sets? People ride happily with threaded
steerers and head set assemblies.

What's the point of .... I think you see my frustration with the current
thread.


I haven't bothered going tubeless on my newly acquired gravel touring
bike (1) with 42mm WTB Resolute tyres. If I start getting punctures or
run out of traction and want lower pressure, and think tubeless goop
will help, I might try then.

(1) Marin, Four Corners.

--
JS

On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 4:25:21 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
What's the point of clip less pedals. People ride happily with flat pedals.

What's the point of gear levers integrated with the brake levers?
People ride happily with gear levers on the down tube, or no gears at all!

What's the point of disc brakes? People happily use rim brakes.

What's the point of multitudes of bottom bracket bearing designs?
People ride happily with regular square tapered axles and cranks to fit.

What's the point of through axles? People ride happily with quick
release axles or solid axles.

What's the point of A-Head head sets? People ride happily with threaded
steerers and head set assemblies.

What's the point of .... I think you see my frustration with the current
thread.


I haven't bothered going tubeless on my newly acquired gravel touring
bike (1) with 42mm WTB Resolute tyres. If I start getting punctures or
run out of traction and want lower pressure, and think tubeless goop
will help, I might try then.

(1) Marin, Four Corners.

That looks like a good value bike, assuming no significant price penalty in Australia. I kinda wish I had stuck with 9 speed on my commuter, but I wanted hydraulic discs because of a really draggy rear cable run on the CAADX and a weak first-gen BB7. I got a killer deal on the levers so I upgraded. I should have resisted.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 1:47:59 AM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
I got a killer deal on the levers so I upgraded. I should have resisted.

Another thread turned political in its second post...

Andre Jute
Luddite: I LIKE square taper bottom brackets!

On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 12:25:21 AM UTC, James wrote:
What's the point of clip less pedals. People ride happily with flat pedals.

VP-191, silky smooth if a little small under my size 12s.

What's the point of gear levers integrated with the brake levers?
People ride happily with gear levers on the down tube, or no gears at all!

People claim to be happy with a great many components that could be better designed in cycling, in the main because they think that suffering for your sport proves your manliness. It's a leftover from when cycling was a workingman's sport and killer endurance races were the norm. It's weird today, when the vast majority of cyclists are middle-class professionals, to see the same attitudes. Worse when the cyclists are engineers who definitely do know better.

I'd pay extra for a hydraulic brake lever integrated with a Rohloff rotary control, simply to recover space on my North Road handlebars. But that's a convenience and aesthetic judgement, not really a functional one as the bike I have in mind has worked fine with separate fixtures for 10K.

What's the point of disc brakes? People happily use rim brakes.

I have hydraulic discs. My discs are 622mm.

What's the point of multitudes of bottom bracket bearing designs?
People ride happily with regular square tapered axles and cranks to fit.

Square tape an effective design. Some of the rest may have engineering justifications, but most seem to me to be marketing exercises to corner a pot of money by establishing your own "standard".

What's the point of through axles? People ride happily with quick
release axles or solid axles.

What's the point of A-Head head sets? People ride happily with threaded
steerers and head set assemblies.

Actually, the A-Head assembly is one I approve of, because it requires fewer, more common tools to set up than the threaded headset. That said, on my everyday bike I actually lock down the A-head steerer tube and its associated bearings with a lockring (I use seatpost lockrings in these assemblies) at which the preload is set which is the point of the A-head, then insert a threaded type steering extender and lock it into the steerer tube to gain extra steer height, then fit the stem to that -- there's very little load on the spacers in between the stem and the locking.

Also, the A-head can be adjusted on the road, whereas a threaded headset is -- in my experience anyway -- unlikely to budge in response to the short spanner you can fit in a take-along bicycle toolkit.

What's the point of .... I think you see my frustration with the current
thread.

Well, here's another one for you: what's the point of a flat back on a bike, of contorting your body to drop handlebars?

I haven't bothered going tubeless on my newly acquired gravel touring
bike (1) with 42mm WTB Resolute tyres. If I start getting punctures or
run out of traction and want lower pressure, and think tubeless goop
will help, I might try then.

(1) Marin, Four Corners.

A point definitely arrives on my Big Apple 60mm balloons when you will get fishbites. For me it's pretty low, around 1.5 bar, but my roads are all blacktop, including even the smallest lanes. What happens is that you hit a pothole at speed on a downhill and your ride is instantly ruined. I haven't ridden on gravel roads since I lived in Australia, but I'd expect my tyres to be good at about 2.4 bar on good gravel and nearer 3 bar on gravel due for grading -- at which point they ride like their wretched cousins, the Marathon Plus. One would also want to know something of the sidewalls of your Resolute tyres.

Andre Jute
Ah, gravel roads, I remember them more fondly than they deserve

On 17/1/19 9:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 12:25:21 AM UTC, James wrote:


What's the point of disc brakes? People happily use rim brakes.

I have hydraulic discs. My discs are 622mm.


My wife made a comment to a mate about me, as I was digging a hole to
find a storm water pipe, "He's not very muscly." Our mate replied after
seeing the veins erupting from my arms, "Looks like the hydraulics are
working fine though!"

Seems I've had 622 mm hydraulic/cable discs for about 3 decades ;-)

I haven't bothered going tubeless on my newly acquired gravel
touring bike (1) with 42mm WTB Resolute tyres. If I start getting
punctures or run out of traction and want lower pressure, and think
tubeless goop will help, I might try then.

(1) Marin, Four Corners.

A point definitely arrives on my Big Apple 60mm balloons when you
will get fishbites. For me it's pretty low, around 1.5 bar, but my
roads are all blacktop, including even the smallest lanes. What
happens is that you hit a pothole at speed on a downhill and your
ride is instantly ruined. I haven't ridden on gravel roads since I
lived in Australia, but I'd expect my tyres to be good at about 2.4
bar on good gravel and nearer 3 bar on gravel due for grading -- at
which point they ride like their wretched cousins, the Marathon Plus.
One would also want to know something of the sidewalls of your
Resolute tyres.


The WTB Resolute tyres seem ok to me. On the road they are not a
terrible drag. The overall weight of the bike is a drag to ride up
hill, but that's to be expected. On gravel the tyres seem to grip well
enough. I don't have much to compare with though.


For some strange reason the sidewalls are marked with a _minimum_
pressure of something like 50 psi. (It may be 55. I can't remember
exactly, but it was 50 or 50 something.)


With 50 psi in the 42 mm tyres, it is fine on smooth bitumen, but very
rough on gravel roads. I've let them down to about 40 psi for gravel,
with the bike only carrying me (75 kg).

--
JS

On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 3:10:13 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 17/1/19 9:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 12:25:21 AM UTC, James wrote:


What's the point of disc brakes? People happily use rim brakes.

I have hydraulic discs. My discs are 622mm.


My wife made a comment to a mate about me, as I was digging a hole to
find a storm water pipe, "He's not very muscly." Our mate replied after
seeing the veins erupting from my arms, "Looks like the hydraulics are
working fine though!"

Seems I've had 622 mm hydraulic/cable discs for about 3 decades ;-)

I haven't bothered going tubeless on my newly acquired gravel
touring bike (1) with 42mm WTB Resolute tyres. If I start getting
punctures or run out of traction and want lower pressure, and think
tubeless goop will help, I might try then.

(1) Marin, Four Corners.

A point definitely arrives on my Big Apple 60mm balloons when you
will get fishbites. For me it's pretty low, around 1.5 bar, but my
roads are all blacktop, including even the smallest lanes. What
happens is that you hit a pothole at speed on a downhill and your
ride is instantly ruined. I haven't ridden on gravel roads since I
lived in Australia, but I'd expect my tyres to be good at about 2.4
bar on good gravel and nearer 3 bar on gravel due for grading -- at
which point they ride like their wretched cousins, the Marathon Plus.
One would also want to know something of the sidewalls of your
Resolute tyres.


The WTB Resolute tyres seem ok to me. On the road they are not a
terrible drag. The overall weight of the bike is a drag to ride up
hill, but that's to be expected. On gravel the tyres seem to grip well
enough. I don't have much to compare with though.


For some strange reason the sidewalls are marked with a _minimum_
pressure of something like 50 psi. (It may be 55. I can't remember
exactly, but it was 50 or 50 something.)


With 50 psi in the 42 mm tyres, it is fine on smooth bitumen, but very
rough on gravel roads. I've let them down to about 40 psi for gravel,
with the bike only carrying me (75 kg).

--
JS

James, today's high performance wheels are very light and they wear out rapidly with rim brakes. It is a lot simpler and cheaper to replace disks and disk brake pads. This is especially handy with carbon wheels which cost so damn much.

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 08:19:35 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 3:10:13 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 17/1/19 9:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 12:25:21 AM UTC, James wrote:


What's the point of disc brakes? People happily use rim brakes.

I have hydraulic discs. My discs are 622mm.


My wife made a comment to a mate about me, as I was digging a hole to
find a storm water pipe, "He's not very muscly." Our mate replied after
seeing the veins erupting from my arms, "Looks like the hydraulics are
working fine though!"

Seems I've had 622 mm hydraulic/cable discs for about 3 decades ;-)

I haven't bothered going tubeless on my newly acquired gravel
touring bike (1) with 42mm WTB Resolute tyres. If I start getting
punctures or run out of traction and want lower pressure, and think
tubeless goop will help, I might try then.

(1) Marin, Four Corners.

A point definitely arrives on my Big Apple 60mm balloons when you
will get fishbites. For me it's pretty low, around 1.5 bar, but my
roads are all blacktop, including even the smallest lanes. What
happens is that you hit a pothole at speed on a downhill and your
ride is instantly ruined. I haven't ridden on gravel roads since I
lived in Australia, but I'd expect my tyres to be good at about 2.4
bar on good gravel and nearer 3 bar on gravel due for grading -- at
which point they ride like their wretched cousins, the Marathon Plus.
One would also want to know something of the sidewalls of your
Resolute tyres.


The WTB Resolute tyres seem ok to me. On the road they are not a
terrible drag. The overall weight of the bike is a drag to ride up
hill, but that's to be expected. On gravel the tyres seem to grip well
enough. I don't have much to compare with though.


For some strange reason the sidewalls are marked with a _minimum_
pressure of something like 50 psi. (It may be 55. I can't remember
exactly, but it was 50 or 50 something.)


With 50 psi in the 42 mm tyres, it is fine on smooth bitumen, but very
rough on gravel roads. I've let them down to about 40 psi for gravel,
with the bike only carrying me (75 kg).

--
JS

James, today's high performance wheels are very light and they wear out rapidly with rim brakes. It is a lot simpler and cheaper to replace disks and disk brake pads. This is especially handy with carbon wheels which cost so damn much.
r

Given that James has mentioned that he rides about 10,000 miles, or
maybe it was kilometers, a year I suspect that he may be a better
authority on performance wheels then an elderly chap with mental
problems.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 3:10:13 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 17/1/19 9:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 12:25:21 AM UTC, James wrote:


What's the point of disc brakes? People happily use rim brakes.

I have hydraulic discs. My discs are 622mm.


My wife made a comment to a mate about me, as I was digging a hole to
find a storm water pipe, "He's not very muscly." Our mate replied after
seeing the veins erupting from my arms, "Looks like the hydraulics are
working fine though!"

Seems I've had 622 mm hydraulic/cable discs for about 3 decades ;-)

I haven't bothered going tubeless on my newly acquired gravel
touring bike (1) with 42mm WTB Resolute tyres. If I start getting
punctures or run out of traction and want lower pressure, and think
tubeless goop will help, I might try then.

(1) Marin, Four Corners.

A point definitely arrives on my Big Apple 60mm balloons when you
will get fishbites. For me it's pretty low, around 1.5 bar, but my
roads are all blacktop, including even the smallest lanes. What
happens is that you hit a pothole at speed on a downhill and your
ride is instantly ruined. I haven't ridden on gravel roads since I
lived in Australia, but I'd expect my tyres to be good at about 2.4
bar on good gravel and nearer 3 bar on gravel due for grading -- at
which point they ride like their wretched cousins, the Marathon Plus.
One would also want to know something of the sidewalls of your
Resolute tyres.


The WTB Resolute tyres seem ok to me. On the road they are not a
terrible drag. The overall weight of the bike is a drag to ride up
hill, but that's to be expected. On gravel the tyres seem to grip well
enough. I don't have much to compare with though.


For some strange reason the sidewalls are marked with a _minimum_
pressure of something like 50 psi. (It may be 55. I can't remember
exactly, but it was 50 or 50 something.)


With 50 psi in the 42 mm tyres, it is fine on smooth bitumen, but very
rough on gravel roads. I've let them down to about 40 psi for gravel,
with the bike only carrying me (75 kg).

--
JS

I'm sure that the way to remain young is exercise. That's what keeps the hydraulics working. I have a home to maintain - I was just down talking to a flooring store. I have to refloor my kitchen and living room. And my normal distance on the bike is about 7,000 miles a year though last year it was only 4,000 because of things like eye surgery.

Where are you located where you ride a gravel bike? I've found really few places where those are practical though I have two presently.

On 19/1/19 12:14 pm, wrote:

Where are you located where you ride a gravel bike? I've found really
few places where those are practical though I have two presently.


In Australia. Nearest capital city is a 3 hour drive away. Nearest
town is a 15 minute drive away. If I ride in the opposite direction
from the nearest town, the bitumen runs out within 7 km and there are
gravel roads beyond and to each side. There are hundreds of kilometers
of gravel roads through the state forest and national parks nearby.
Coffee shops are few and far between though.

--
JS

On 1/18/2019 11:35 PM, James wrote:
On 19/1/19 12:14 pm, wrote:

Where are you located where you ride a gravel bike? I've found really
few places where those are practical though I have two presently.


In Australia.Â* Nearest capital city is a 3 hour drive away.Â* Nearest
town is a 15 minute drive away.Â* If I ride in the opposite direction
from the nearest town, the bitumen runs out within 7 km and there are
gravel roads beyond and to each side.Â* There are hundreds of kilometers
of gravel roads through the state forest and national parks nearby.
Coffee shops are few and far between though.

I live on the edge of a metro area that was settled and farmed early in
Ohio's history. All those little farms needed road access, so there are
hundreds of little paved ex-farm roads to explore, although the paving
is far from excellent. Supposedly, in the 1950s or so, the county
engineer made a name for himself by paving hundreds of miles of gravel
roads, but he did it on the cheap. We pay for it in potholes ever since.

So in my immediate riding area, there are few gravel roads. But about
40 miles north is an Amish area with lots of them. I used to run our
club's annual century ride which passed through that area, and at times
it took considerable research to find paved roads we could use.

I'm not averse to riding gravel on 32mm tires or even the 28s I normally
use, provided it's not too coarse. But it's occurred to me that it might
be fun to rent a B&B in that Amish area and spend time poking around on
a gravel bike with wider tires. Traffic would be light and/or
horse-drawn. The Amish tend to be friendly toward people on bikes. (I've
had teenagers in buggies race me.) The countryside is picturesque,
including quite a few covered bridges.

Maybe someday before we get too old.

--
- Frank Krygowski