The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Snippage of Fogelisms

Dear Carl,

Where have you been? I would have thought you would have brought your
own special take on the idiocy expressed by our now-less-esteemed
co-cyclist Blair long before now.

Good to see you participating in the windmill tilting.

My worthless contribution:

Obviously, Blair, given your free-floating anxiety and your amazing
ability to generate false dangers, you don't ride much. Probably not
at all. So what does it matter what's in the back?

Get a pair, you ninny.

App

A Muzi wrote:

Here's the later (final) Holdsworth facility on Oakfield
road; no 'furnace brazing'.

I didn't see any 'hearth brazing'(as it was called then)
when I was at the Putney facility in the early seventies
either.

My own '53 Raleigh _was_ built that way. It's been widened
and even de-pretzeled after an horrific crash but rides
straight to this day. Every day.

Thanks for taking the time to correct old misinformation on Holdsworth,
something repeated to me (you know, as an owner, hearing "hey, those
are furnace brazed"). Well, it had lots of chances to break g and
didn't, no matter how the tubes got stuck together.

I didn't mention that the Holdsworth paint/graphics didn't seem to lack
in comparison to the 2x expen$ive Roberts, either. Nice frame, however
many they made, etc. --TP

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:36:45 -0400, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:

I put about 10k miles on a Specialized Epic carbon fiber frame after I just
jammed in the wider wheel. It was originally spaced for a 126mm wheel and I
just spread the stays and put in a 130mm wheel. No problems at all. It just
meant I had spread the stays every time I put the wheel back on. Not a big
deal. I'm sure someone is still riding that frame.

Eek, on carbon fiber? I wouldn't be so happy with that. Steel, yes,
aluminium, even (though only temporary spreading, not coldsetting), yes,
but CF I'd avoid.

Jasper

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

---snipping Blair's concerns---

Ok. Simple solution. Ditch the Neuvations. Look for a pair of NOS 7
speed freehubs (E-bay has tons). These will be 126mm spacing. Have a
LBS build a set of wheels for you. Take your spiffy new 9 speed
casette, and ditch a cog. Place the now 8 speed casette onto the 7
speed freehub. Adjust the limit screws on your rear der. so that you
cannot make the '9th' shift (onto your largest cog). You now have an 8
of 9 on 7 setup (Sheldon describes this process at
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7 )

On 16 Aug 2005 23:55:54 -0700, "StaceyJ" wrote:

Ok. Simple solution. Ditch the Neuvations. Look for a pair of NOS 7
speed freehubs (E-bay has tons). These will be 126mm spacing. Have a
LBS build a set of wheels for you. Take your spiffy new 9 speed
casette, and ditch a cog. Place the now 8 speed casette onto the 7
speed freehub. Adjust the limit screws on your rear der. so that you
cannot make the '9th' shift (onto your largest cog). You now have an 8
of 9 on 7 setup (Sheldon describes this process at
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7 )

Except, ebay the spiffy new cassette and get a cheaper one that doesn't
have spidered big cogs, so you can actually get the combo you want (or you
can remove a cog in the middle if you want to keep both the cassette and
the 12t).

Really, though? Just have someone respace your ****ing frame already.
You're taking more chances with it simply by riding it and taking the
chance it'll get hit by a car. The Borg 8 of 9 'solution' really isn't
much of a solution.


Jasper

A Muzi wrote:
Here's the later (final) Holdsworth facility on Oakfield
road; no 'furnace brazing'.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/hwfact.html

Way too cool.

Still looking for decals?

I saw some NOS Holdsworth frames for sale at the College
Park Bicycles website, and IIRC there was something about
getting decals included. Don't remember whether it meant
some frame already had decals applied or they would apply
them if you wanted.

--Blair
"Mine's naked."

wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
The dropouts themselves are Campagnolo-made hardened lugs
that Holdsworth welded to the Reynolds tubing.

?? That's not making sense to me. For one thing, isn't it brazed
construction instead of welded? And regarding the lugs - do you have a
picture?

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html

See about halfway down under "Horizontal Dropout Campagnolo
1010". Looks pretty much like mine; and from what I've
seen elsewhere about Holdsworths, the 1010 is one dropout
they used, if not the only one.

The "lug" portion would be everything below and left of
the stays. The triangle, the dropout, and the hangers.

That part is hardened, and was made by Campagnolo,
while the stays are not.

It could be brazed to the stays, but it's finished and
painted, so I can't see exactly what's been done where
they attach to the seatstay and chainstay.

--Blair
"And it'd be kinda hard to find
the guy what did it..."

41 wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:

It's exasperating or amusing to watch you and JB talk past each other
over the axle length. All he is saying is that the required frame
spacing is determined by the hub and cogset width, because that is the
unalterable part of the equaiton. From that, you determine the correct

But in this case, we're not altering the frame spacing.

I can choose hubs and cogsets.

overlocknut distance. If the axle is too long, hacksaw off the excess
or even use nutted fittings instead of a QR. If it's two mm on each
side you may not even have to make any correction. Thus the axle length
is not the determining factor, although in practice most people just
change the axle instead of hacksawing it.

I can't find replacement axles anywhere, though the
Internet isn't really the place to be looking for exotic
parts, even if it's the place to look for the people who
have the exotic parts. (They aren't often the sort of
people who put every part online...)

I've seen indications that I shouldn't have had any problem
getting a 130-mm axle into my 126-mm frame, but that frame
wasn't budging, so I don't know what's going on there.
The spring constant is way too high (because it's not a
lack of arm strength on my part, he said, curling 70 lbs
in either hand).

And even if I get a 126-mm axle, I'm now certain there's
no room for a 9-speed.

Well, my way of thinking is, classic bike, plenty of 13-2x freewheels
available NOS on eBay, less than 13 teeth no great use, you should be
able to use a classic setup with no problem and no practical
disadvantages. Your old hub is probably just fine, all you need is a
new rim and to lace it to the old hub. If you can get a rim with the
same ERD you can even reuse the spokes.

The hub isn't as fine as it could be. When the wheel
turns and the freewheel is held stationary (e.g., as
in coasting), you can see the freewheel orbit a little.
It's been that way as long as I can remember. The wheel
doesn't have an eccentricity, though, so the eccentricity
is between the axle and the freewheel.

I could get a replacement freewheel, but I think I need
a whole new rear wheel. Very few 126-mm setups out there.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing.o

Right now, because I changed chains, I'm effectively
riding a fixie. Every cog but the 16T skips under
heavy load. I really needed that rear to work. But it's
okay, because as soon as I leave the driveway I shift
into 52/16, and I don't shift out until I'm cooling down
(and I'm avoiding the one big hill in the neighborhood).
I've probably logged 99% of my miles the past year in
that gear. Which is probably why it's the only combination
that will accept the new chain, though you'd suspect it
should be the other way around...

--Blair
"Just like riding a bike."

Dennis P. Harris wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:14:27 GMT in rec.bicycles.tech, Blair P.
Houghton wrote:

You say it's easy, why don't you pony up and indemnify the
process against any sort of mechanical error for the $20k
or so this frame is really worth to me.

oh, bullpucky. no frame is worth that much, and you're just
obsessive. PLONK.

I work about 100 feet from a guy who paid $3 million for
a baseball he never hit himself.

Conversely, in the right context, no frame is worth the
price of postage.

So you want me to be happy? Send me a nice Bianchi road
frame in my size, and I'll send you the price of the
postage, and you'll be way ahead on the deal. In the
original Celeste, if you have one.

And get that plonking sound checked. That's what clued
me my front wheel was losing spoke-hole rivets.

--Blair
"Which is where this all began."

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
In article , says...


Dennis P. Harris wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 06:53:01 GMT in rec.bicycles.tech, Blair P.
Houghton wrote:

But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that
theory don't mean **** when you're standing there with a
broken widget in your hand.

it's steel. it's not going to break.

...said the designers of the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

How many bridges have done the same since then? You are not the first person
doing the procedure, so that is not a good analogy. Just bend it and ride it.

They weren't the first people building a bridge, a
suspension bridge, or a suspension bridge in high winds.

--Blair
"Just shimming your logic."