Decline in bicycling?

Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility skeptic,
I think I can answer that question.)

https://patch.com/florida/southtampa...line-bicycling

I'm sure things can be very difficult for an independent local shop. I
wonder about Andrew's experience with such pressures.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/27/2020 10:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the
constant construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually,
as a facility skeptic, I think I can answer that question.)

https://patch.com/florida/southtampa...line-bicycling


I'm sure things can be very difficult for an independent
local shop. I wonder about Andrew's experience with such
pressures.


Not news. The past few years have been absolutely brutal to
my industry.

That said, individual dealers are each a subset of 'the
bicycle business' and have their own individual strengths,
advantages, challenges and burdens.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:44:15 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2020 10:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility
skeptic, I think I can answer that question.)

https://patch.com/florida/southtampa...line-bicycling


I'm sure things can be very difficult for an independent local shop.
I wonder about Andrew's experience with such pressures.


Not news. The past few years have been absolutely brutal to my
industry.

That said, individual dealers are each a subset of 'the bicycle
business' and have their own individual strengths, advantages,
challenges and burdens.

Yellow Jersey must have third and fourth generation customers by now,
after nearly 50 years in business. Plus the only bike shop where one
can buy Lubriplate since I was a kid!

On 1/27/2020 8:54 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:44:15 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2020 10:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility
skeptic, I think I can answer that question.)

https://patch.com/florida/southtampa...line-bicycling


I'm sure things can be very difficult for an independent local shop.
I wonder about Andrew's experience with such pressures.


Not news. The past few years have been absolutely brutal to my
industry.

That said, individual dealers are each a subset of 'the bicycle
business' and have their own individual strengths, advantages,
challenges and burdens.

Yellow Jersey must have third and fourth generation customers by now,
after nearly 50 years in business. Plus the only bike shop where one
can buy Lubriplate since I was a kid!

Bicycle Retailer News does track the number of bicycles imported every
month. The numbers go up and down, depending on the category. They go by
wheel size. Generally 26" imports are down, 27.5" and 29" imports are
up. Lately, the numbers have been down, but it's not because of a
decrease in cycling, it's due to the large tariffs imposed by President
Trump.

It's always amusing to talk to a die-hard Trump supporter whose business
is being negatively affected by Trump's policies. Last year I was
talking to someone who owns a huge amount of farmland in the central
valley of California, whose exports to China represented a significant
percentage of his business. His sales are way down. I asked him how
Trump was working out for him, and got a grimace in response.

On 1/28/2020 6:05 AM, sms wrote:
On 1/27/2020 8:54 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:44:15 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2020 10:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility
skeptic, I think I can answer that question.)

https://patch.com/florida/southtampa...line-bicycling



I'm sure things can be very difficult for an independent local shop.
I wonder about Andrew's experience with such pressures.


Not news. The past few years have been absolutely brutal to my
industry.

That said, individual dealers are each a subset of 'the bicycle
business' and have their own individual strengths, advantages,
challenges and burdens.

Yellow Jersey must have third and fourth generation customers by now,
after nearly 50 years in business.Â* Plus the only bike shop where one
can buy Lubriplate since I was a kid!

Bicycle Retailer News does track the number of bicycles imported every
month. The numbers go up and down, depending on the category. They go by
wheel size. Generally 26" imports are down, 27.5" and 29" imports are
up. Lately, the numbers have been down, but it's not because of a
decrease in cycling, it's due to the large tariffs imposed by President
Trump.

It's always amusing to talk to a die-hard Trump supporter whose business
is being negatively affected by Trump's policies. Last year I was
talking to someone who owns a huge amount of farmland in the central
valley of California, whose exports to China represented a significant
percentage of his business. His sales are way down. I asked him how
Trump was working out for him, and got a grimace in response.

Another issue noted in the industry is the decline in the number of IBDs
(Independent Bicycle Dealers) and an increase in sales through other
channels.

In my area these include stores like REI, Sports Basement, and Dick's
Sporting Goods, that aren't selling only low-end stuff like Walmart and
Target sell. Sports Basement is an especially aggressive competitor with
a huge service department, a large parts and accessory department, a
large clothing and shoes department, and frequent discounting (20% off
everything, including bicycles), as well as long operating hours. One
good thing for IBDs is the closure of Performance stores.

You also have Bikesdirect.com and some other vendors that are selling
everything from entry level to higher-end. I bought one bicycle from
them. My wife wanted a Mixte road bike and they were the only source
that had them available with full gearing
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/womens-road-bikes/miragesport_mixte_blu_5.jpg.

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:22:56 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility skeptic,
I think I can answer that question.)


The article ties the drop in commuter ridership to the fear of traffic and the highest bicycle death rate in the nation. You are now treading in that area between perceived danger and actual danger. It may actually suck to ride on surface streets to commute to work in Tampa as opposed to riding on one of the MUPs or linear park trails, which typically don't get you where you need to go as a commuter.

The more interesting question is why a drop if the roads were equally dangerous in 2017. We had a drop in PDX, but nothing has changed -- except maybe car traffic has gotten worse. What we need is a survey to find out why people who rode in 2017 aren't riding in 2019. It could be reasons totally unrelated to road conditions, e.g. working from home.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, 27 January 2020 12:00:41 UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:22:56 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility skeptic,
I think I can answer that question.)


The article ties the drop in commuter ridership to the fear of traffic and the highest bicycle death rate in the nation. You are now treading in that area between perceived danger and actual danger. It may actually suck to ride on surface streets to commute to work in Tampa as opposed to riding on one of the MUPs or linear park trails, which typically don't get you where you need to go as a commuter.

The more interesting question is why a drop if the roads were equally dangerous in 2017. We had a drop in PDX, but nothing has changed -- except maybe car traffic has gotten worse. What we need is a survey to find out why people who rode in 2017 aren't riding in 2019. It could be reasons totally unrelated to road conditions, e.g. working from home.

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps in Florida it's because of drivers who plow into a group of 15+ bicyclist of which 2 die of injuries; and the driver doesn't even get charged with reckless driving although she was 10+ MPH over the speed limit and was not looking at the road in front of her at the time she hit them?

It's talked about in t his thread.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/5abS9erOsto

I think a big part of many giving up bicycling on roads is the perceived dangers posed by distracted drivers and the extremely lenient sentences those drivers get if they hit or hit and kill a bicyclist. Distracted driving seems to be increasing yearly and the penalties for it if someone is hit are ridiculously light.

Cheers

On Mon, Jan 27 2020, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Distracted driving seems to be increasing yearly and the penalties for
it if someone is hit are ridiculously light.

I'm a fan of the distracted driving laws in Ontario and wish they were
more widespread. I frequently see people texting and driving here in PA.
In Ontario the first conviction for distracted driving is a $1k fine and
a 3-day suspension, the second is $2k and a 7-day suspension, and third
is $3k and a 30-day suspension.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/distracted-driving

--
|)|/ Ryan Kavanagh | GPG: 4E46 9519 ED67 7734 268F
|\|\ https://rak.ac | BD95 8F7B F8FC 4A11 C97A

On 1/27/2020 2:01 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 12:00:41 UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:22:56 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility skeptic,
I think I can answer that question.)


The article ties the drop in commuter ridership to the fear of traffic and the highest bicycle death rate in the nation. You are now treading in that area between perceived danger and actual danger. It may actually suck to ride on surface streets to commute to work in Tampa as opposed to riding on one of the MUPs or linear park trails, which typically don't get you where you need to go as a commuter.

The more interesting question is why a drop if the roads were equally dangerous in 2017. We had a drop in PDX, but nothing has changed -- except maybe car traffic has gotten worse. What we need is a survey to find out why people who rode in 2017 aren't riding in 2019. It could be reasons totally unrelated to road conditions, e.g. working from home.

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps in Florida it's because of drivers who plow into a group of 15+ bicyclist of which 2 die of injuries; and the driver doesn't even get charged with reckless driving although she was 10+ MPH over the speed limit and was not looking at the road in front of her at the time she hit them?

It's talked about in t his thread.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/5abS9erOsto

I think a big part of many giving up bicycling on roads is the perceived dangers posed by distracted drivers and the extremely lenient sentences those drivers get if they hit or hit and kill a bicyclist. Distracted driving seems to be increasing yearly and the penalties for it if someone is hit are ridiculously light.

I suspect a reason for drops in cycling is perceived dangers, but I
don't think it's specifically connected with light sentences for
offending motorists. I say that because in the U.S. (and I suppose in
Canada) there never was a time when motorists were adequately punished
for their offenses.

I think a big change has been the never-ending push for "Safe!" separate
facilities, with the unavoidable implication that ordinary streets
cannot possibly be "safe." My understanding is that the big bike
companies - especially Trek, IIRC - are strongly behind this facility
push. If so, it's a classic case of shooting oneself in the foot. It
would be much more sensible to put out publicity proving that bicycling
on most ordinary roads is actually quite safe, and very beneficial. It
can also be very useful.

I've noticed a change in our bike club. ISMT a high percentage of people
who have joined in the past five years strongly prefer to ride on
trails. They'll drive 50 miles to some distant trail, off load bikes to
ride back and forth on the trail, and consider it a big adventure.

I'd consider it a long drive followed by a boring ride.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 12:06:18 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/27/2020 2:01 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 12:00:41 UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:22:56 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Decline in bicycling? Gosh, how can that be, with the constant
construction of new "safe" facilities? (Actually, as a facility skeptic,
I think I can answer that question.)


The article ties the drop in commuter ridership to the fear of traffic and the highest bicycle death rate in the nation. You are now treading in that area between perceived danger and actual danger. It may actually suck to ride on surface streets to commute to work in Tampa as opposed to riding on one of the MUPs or linear park trails, which typically don't get you where you need to go as a commuter.

The more interesting question is why a drop if the roads were equally dangerous in 2017. We had a drop in PDX, but nothing has changed -- except maybe car traffic has gotten worse. What we need is a survey to find out why people who rode in 2017 aren't riding in 2019. It could be reasons totally unrelated to road conditions, e.g. working from home.

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps in Florida it's because of drivers who plow into a group of 15+ bicyclist of which 2 die of injuries; and the driver doesn't even get charged with reckless driving although she was 10+ MPH over the speed limit and was not looking at the road in front of her at the time she hit them?

It's talked about in t his thread.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/5abS9erOsto

I think a big part of many giving up bicycling on roads is the perceived dangers posed by distracted drivers and the extremely lenient sentences those drivers get if they hit or hit and kill a bicyclist. Distracted driving seems to be increasing yearly and the penalties for it if someone is hit are ridiculously light.

I suspect a reason for drops in cycling is perceived dangers, but I
don't think it's specifically connected with light sentences for
offending motorists. I say that because in the U.S. (and I suppose in
Canada) there never was a time when motorists were adequately punished
for their offenses.

I think a big change has been the never-ending push for "Safe!" separate
facilities, with the unavoidable implication that ordinary streets
cannot possibly be "safe." My understanding is that the big bike
companies - especially Trek, IIRC - are strongly behind this facility
push. If so, it's a classic case of shooting oneself in the foot. It
would be much more sensible to put out publicity proving that bicycling
on most ordinary roads is actually quite safe, and very beneficial. It
can also be very useful.

I've noticed a change in our bike club. ISMT a high percentage of people
who have joined in the past five years strongly prefer to ride on
trails. They'll drive 50 miles to some distant trail, off load bikes to
ride back and forth on the trail, and consider it a big adventure.

I'd consider it a long drive followed by a boring ride.

What kind of a trail? A trail-trail or a MUP?

A lot of people are sick of battling car traffic and are heading toward gravel or off-road because it is more pleasant. It's not even a safety thing -- it's quality of life.

And a lot of people around here will drive 40 miles to trail -- but it is real trail. https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9879366/p4pb9879366.jpg Or gravel in basically the same area: https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...ney-to-bennett

We do have some pretty MUPs in the middle of nowhere-ish, so people may drive out to those. Rain ride! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6CtssH35Mg There are, however, better gravel routes near the Banks Vernonia trail, e.g. http://www.omtm.cc/buxton-bacona-bonanza If I drive, I'm going there and not a MUP.

-- Jay Beattie.