eBike News

On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 8:29:23 PM UTC+1, pH Steinbruner wrote:

The reason I wanted the 1kw bafeng is that the build was reportedly much beefier.

The Bafangs are descended from a very torquey motor, considering its size, the BPM or Hillclimber.

Your next two sentences should be the other way round:
It could easily be programmed to run at the 750 watt level. For me, longevity is as important as the power, maybe even more important. I want it to last 10 years/10,00 miles. Doubt that's possible, though.

Like this:
For me, longevity is as important as the power, maybe even more important. I want it to last 10 years/10,00 miles. It could easily be programmed to run at the 750 watt level.

If you turn down a 1KW motor to 750W and especially to 500W, the doubt might start creeping out. This can be effectively done in the software or by simply leaving the Bafang's nine "gears" stand and using only the lower four or in extremis five. Or you could simply use a 36V battery instead of the 48V at which the motor delivers the 1KW. That's how Rolls-Royce once upon a time gave their cars such a reputation for longevity: they choked off its air and fuel. (Every time I bought another Bentley, I'd treat it for bronchitis and suddenly it would be a very fast car indeed instead of simply fast if the driver was brave because it had 6.7 litres being choked.

However, you should know that on a better-regulated conference I'm on, where there are quite a few electric motors on touring bikes, the consensus is that an electric motor on a bike, at the current developmental stage of the thing, is a service item with a long replacement date even if it is chosen right and looked after right. That doesn't bother any of us because we informed ourselves before we went into electric bikes, yours truly going as far as to buy a marginally undersized motor to see how long it lasted. The answer was 3500km. My correctly sized motors (for me and the painting gear I carry around on my particular hills) has already passed that with flying colours and gives every sign of lasting that again, and perhaps again. If it does give up the thermal ghost, I'll know that I still wasn't right, and replace it with a 500W motor, also from Bagang.

Someone thing else you might consider: You need to look after the batter obsessively, recharging it after even the shortest ride. Batteries, even with good care, may (note conditional -- it's not actually my experience yet) cost more than replacement motors, but my battery from my first burned-out motor is still good because I looked after it. I could use it if I wanted to, but another hidden secret of electric bikes is to provide enough coulombs for your steepest hill at whatever speed you wish to travel, NN. Coulombs in this sense are instantly available current units. One of the dashboards available for the Bafang centre motors actually has a power meter which shows how much of the instantly available power in the battery you're using. This isn't all the power in the battery, which is measured in amp-hours but the coulomb-seconds the battery can pass through without turning into a bomb. (Now watch the engineers -- or at least the one who has learned his lesson yet -- start screaming that I haven't crossed all the i's and dotted all the t's.)

pH also wrote to Jay:
As whiff piles on the miles I will be eagerly awaiting your reports on the thing.

I can't help wondering who will replace the odd-shaped batteries in the weird battery box on Jay's bike, and how long Specialised will take before they orphane it. America is truly the home of planned obsolescence.

pH in Aptos

On 9/22/2020 12:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/22/2020 10:37 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 22 september 2020 om 03:58:57 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/21/2020 2:26 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Two weeks ago I was in the mountains climbing. Before I left I weighed
bike and myself, both in riding condition. There is a 10 km climb with
an almost constant grade; about 7%.:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oTwizyDjQ59vMX2p9
I resetted my Garmin at the bottom of the climb. At the top I looked at
the average power I managed and I calculated my climbing time within 30
seconds accuracy from the average power and weight.
I assume your calculations were done the simplest way, ignoring any aero
drag, right? Aero drag would be minimal at normal climbing speeds for a
7% grade.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Yes simple calculation. I assumed 20 Watts rolling resistance. No aero
drag at speeds of 10-12 km/hr.

Lou


As a really rough estimate, I take sustained speed x % grade as an
indication of power (in really weird units, of course).

Note that to give good accuracy, the calculation doesn't require inputs
regarding number or spacing of gears, frame stiffness, type of shifters, type of
pedals or even color of paint. (Despite the fact that red bikes are obviously
faster.)

Yet those factors and others are claimed to make bikes much faster.


Lou and Ralph described their calculations as "simple" and "really rough," not
"good accuracy". And I don't remember anyone here claiming that the factors you
name make bikes "much faster". But it does seem clear to me that all of those
factors (except maybe the paint) can have small but significant effects on the
rider's power output, and thus the speed.

On 9/23/2020 9:49 AM, Bertrand wrote:
On 9/22/2020 12:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/22/2020 10:37 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 22 september 2020 om 03:58:57 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/21/2020 2:26 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Two weeks ago I was in the mountains climbing. Before I left I
weighed
bike and myself, both in riding condition. There is a 10 km climb
with
an almost constant grade; about 7%.:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oTwizyDjQ59vMX2p9
I resetted my Garmin at the bottom of the climb. At the top I
looked at
the average power I managed and I calculated my climbing time
within 30
seconds accuracy from the average power and weight.
I assume your calculations were done the simplest way, ignoring any
aero
drag, right? Aero drag would be minimal at normal climbing speeds
for a
7% grade.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Yes simple calculation. I assumed 20 Watts rolling resistance. No aero
drag at speeds of 10-12 km/hr.

Lou


As a really rough estimate, I take sustained speed x % grade as an
indication of power (in really weird units, of course).

Note that to give good accuracy, the calculation doesn't require
inputs regarding number or spacing of gears, frame stiffness, type of
shifters, type of pedals or even color of paint. (Despite the fact
that red bikes are obviously faster.)

Yet those factors and others are claimed to make bikes much faster.


Lou and Ralph described their calculations as "simple" and "really
rough," not "good accuracy".


Lou talked about a 10km climb, 7% gradient. That must have taken at
least half an hour. His computation was accurate within 30 seconds.

That's within about 2%. I'd call that good accuracy.

And I don't remember anyone here claiming
that the factors you name make bikes "much faster". But it does seem
clear to me that all of those factors (except maybe the paint) can have
small but significant effects on the rider's power output, and thus the
speed.

I agree some of those factors can have a small effect on power output or
speed - with the important word being "small." Outside of a race, I very
much doubt the effects are significant.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Op woensdag 23 september 2020 om 17:44:47 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/23/2020 9:49 AM, Bertrand wrote:
On 9/22/2020 12:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/22/2020 10:37 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 22 september 2020 om 03:58:57 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/21/2020 2:26 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Two weeks ago I was in the mountains climbing. Before I left I
weighed
bike and myself, both in riding condition. There is a 10 km climb
with
an almost constant grade; about 7%.:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oTwizyDjQ59vMX2p9
I resetted my Garmin at the bottom of the climb. At the top I
looked at
the average power I managed and I calculated my climbing time
within 30
seconds accuracy from the average power and weight.
I assume your calculations were done the simplest way, ignoring any
aero
drag, right? Aero drag would be minimal at normal climbing speeds
for a
7% grade.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Yes simple calculation. I assumed 20 Watts rolling resistance. No aero
drag at speeds of 10-12 km/hr.

Lou


As a really rough estimate, I take sustained speed x % grade as an
indication of power (in really weird units, of course).

Note that to give good accuracy, the calculation doesn't require
inputs regarding number or spacing of gears, frame stiffness, type of
shifters, type of pedals or even color of paint. (Despite the fact
that red bikes are obviously faster.)

Yet those factors and others are claimed to make bikes much faster.


Lou and Ralph described their calculations as "simple" and "really
rough," not "good accuracy".
Lou talked about a 10km climb, 7% gradient. That must have taken at
least half an hour. His computation was accurate within 30 seconds.



Half an hour? Maybe 10 years ago but now it was just under 50 minutes.

Lou

On 9/23/2020 12:13 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op woensdag 23 september 2020 om 17:44:47 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/23/2020 9:49 AM, Bertrand wrote:
On 9/22/2020 12:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/22/2020 10:37 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 22 september 2020 om 03:58:57 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/21/2020 2:26 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Two weeks ago I was in the mountains climbing. Before I left I
weighed
bike and myself, both in riding condition. There is a 10 km climb
with
an almost constant grade; about 7%.:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oTwizyDjQ59vMX2p9
I resetted my Garmin at the bottom of the climb. At the top I
looked at
the average power I managed and I calculated my climbing time
within 30
seconds accuracy from the average power and weight.
I assume your calculations were done the simplest way, ignoring any
aero
drag, right? Aero drag would be minimal at normal climbing speeds
for a
7% grade.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Yes simple calculation. I assumed 20 Watts rolling resistance. No aero
drag at speeds of 10-12 km/hr.

Lou


As a really rough estimate, I take sustained speed x % grade as an
indication of power (in really weird units, of course).

Note that to give good accuracy, the calculation doesn't require
inputs regarding number or spacing of gears, frame stiffness, type of
shifters, type of pedals or even color of paint. (Despite the fact
that red bikes are obviously faster.)

Yet those factors and others are claimed to make bikes much faster.


Lou and Ralph described their calculations as "simple" and "really
rough," not "good accuracy".
Lou talked about a 10km climb, 7% gradient. That must have taken at
least half an hour. His computation was accurate within 30 seconds.



Half an hour? Maybe 10 years ago but now it was just under 50 minutes.

Look at the bright side. It makes your calculation accuracy even better!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 7:27:38 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/22/2020 12:58 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I think we'll do laps around the neighborhood cemetery this evening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg8X...nel=pdxwheeler Whiner! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXxZ...nel=MarkPalace River View is like its own little world. https://www.spinlister.com/blog/tryo...d-lake-oswego/

Cemeteries can be very beautiful. There are two near me that I regularly
ride through for the architecture, sculpture and tranquility. I'm told
by a historian friend that around Victorian times, people would picnic
in cemeteries. She claims cemeteries were the inspiration for city parks.

Several times I've led a club ride I call "Tour de Tombs," visiting
several historic cemeteries in our area, stopping at graves of local
historic figures.

River View is built on a hillside with canyons, and you can descend on foot into an old growth fairy kingdom with swamps and hip-high sword ferns. It needs some dinosaurs. The unused and less dramatic second-growth acreage next door used to be a great place to mountain bike, but it was purchased by the city and shut down to mountain biking -- which is a shame. I used to ride and crash my CX bike over there. https://www.brokenandcoastal.com/jou...w-natural-area

Meanwhile, there is a main thoroughfare for cyclists through the cemetery that is like a drag strip. https://tinyurl.com/y4t32hls Strava cut it as a segment because the danger created by descending cyclists.

So, I was climbing that on my commuter yesterday with my wife on her ebike, and we get passed by a couple of racer-ish guys, and my wife hits the gas, and there I am gasping to keep up. She needs to learn that with great power comes great responsibility -- to not kill me.

The dead people are interesting there, too, Henry Weinhardt and his family, https://tinyurl.com/yxbqyqsc Virgil Earp (Wyatt's brother) and some others.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil..._Headstone.jpg Like most things in the West, it is not nearly as old as things in the East. I'm sure you guys have dead people going way back.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 9/23/2020 1:52 PM, jbeattie wrote:

The dead people are interesting there, too, Henry Weinhardt and his family, https://tinyurl.com/yxbqyqsc Virgil Earp (Wyatt's brother) and some others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil..._Headstone.jpg Like most things in the West, it is not nearly as old as things in the East. I'm sure you guys have dead people going way back.

We do. This is the southeast corner of the Connecticut Western Reserve,
the portion of Ohio "reserved" or retained by Connecticut when the new
United States decided to settle conflicting claims to "western" land by
saying it belonged to the federal government and would eventually become
new states. We're "Town One, Range One" of the Western Reserve and one
of the first places settled in Ohio. One of our local cemeteries has
guys who fought in the Revolutionary War.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/22/2020 9:58 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 6:18:43 PM UTC-7, pH Steinbruner wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:45:42 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
I got my wife an eBike for her birthday via my son at Specialized. Box arrived yesterday, and I about herniated myself getting it into the garage. One of these: https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...o-vado-reivew/ I had no idea it was a Buycycling Editor's choice, but I'll go with it. Being family, I got employee pricing -- otherwise it would have been a harder choice. Even the bottom of the range is expensive, but it is a nice bike.

There were some odd-ball assembly issues, and I still have to update the firmware (which is like a huge thing because you want the latest performance advantages!), but it went together fine. Lots of bells (literally) and whistles.

My wife is 5'10" (or used to be), so my son sized her as a large, which is fine for saddle to pedal distance, but the tire height/BB makes the stand-over high, even with a sloping top-tube. The thing is like a mini-motorcycle. She has some neuro/ortho conditions that affect her mobility, but she seems to be fine swinging her leg over the saddle and off the bike. She doesn't complain, which is sometimes a problem. "Oh its fine [followed by catastrophe]." I do worry about the size of the thing, though.

On max setting, the bike is super fast with a top speed of 28mph. I'm going to throw on a QR seatpost clamp so I can use it for shopping. You would need a truck to steal it, and it has a kickstand and a really swanky little rack. The future is now! My son is trying to get me interested in the mega-zillion dollar 22lb stealth eBikes -- so I can keep up with him, but I would need a winning lottery ticket, even at employee pricing.

In another small bicycle-world twist, my son tells me I'll need a hitch rack tray that my wife can roll the bike onto -- made by Yakima. So I walk down the street and ask my neighbor and best bicycling buddy -- who is head of products for Yakima and happened to be working in his yard, for a rack. Its on the way. Life is good.

-- Jay Beattie.

Hey, Jay...
I'm sure you're aware of the BaFang mid-drive motor kits and their 250W, 500W, 750W and 1KW offerings;

I see they now have a competitor--CYC--that looks pretty slick and claims 3KW and 5KW models.
https://www.cycmotor.com/

seems like chain-snapping time, to me. I had always daydreamed about the 1KW bafang, mainly for its robustness, me being a Clydesdale and all.

I have my 250W elation up at my mom's in flat old Napa, CA. Don't see any more motors in my immedfiate future.

I've seen an Easy Racer (recumbent) that was BaFang equipped...maybe the whiff would like a recumbent? (I like mine.)

pH in Aptos

No recumbent for the wife. Her issues were actually worsened by a recumbent, and she tried and rejected one years ago. Another gift sold!

She slaughtered me on the Vado last night doing ad hoc hill repeats around the neighborhood. I was on my now incredibly quiet, non-motorized commuter bike. She would come by me laughing, which brought back memories of our racing days when we would go training after work, and she would attack when I wasn't paying attention. I was paying attention last night but don't have the watts to beat a class 3 ebike after about three hill sprints.

I think we'll do laps around the neighborhood cemetery this evening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg8X...nel=pdxwheeler Whiner! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXxZ...nel=MarkPalace River View is like its own little world. https://www.spinlister.com/blog/tryo...d-lake-oswego/

-- Jay Beattie.

Your experience is similar to mine. The last 1/4 mile to our house on
most rides involves a tiny back street with very short, very steep
pitches - granny gear stuff when I'm tired. First time up it with her
new E bike, the wife is giggling as she blows by me. I wasn't paying
attention until too late. Enjoy!

Mark J.

On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 22:27:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Cemeteries can be very beautiful. There are two near me that I regularly
ride through for the architecture, sculpture and tranquility. I'm told
by a historian friend that around Victorian times, people would picnic
in cemeteries. She claims cemeteries were the inspiration for city parks.

I must read the tombstones the next time I stop in a cemetary.
Usually, my reaction is "Great! I can stop for a rest without
attracting ambulances!"

When I was a small child, on one occasion an event at the church ended
before our parents came to get us, and the children went for a walk in
the cemetary. There were an incredible number of mother-and-newborn
graves.

Twenty-first century medicine is wonderful, but twentieth-century
medicine *rocks*!

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/23/2020 1:52 PM, jbeattie wrote:
The dead people are interesting there, too, Henry Weinhardt and his
family, https://tinyurl.com/yxbqyqsc Virgil Earp (Wyatt's brother)
and some
others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil..._Headstone.jpg
Like most things in the West, it is not nearly as old as things in
the East. I'm sure you guys have dead people going way back.

We do. This is the southeast corner of the Connecticut Western
Reserve, the portion of Ohio "reserved" or retained by Connecticut
when the new United States decided to settle conflicting claims to
"western" land by saying it belonged to the federal government and
would eventually become new states. We're "Town One, Range One" of the
Western Reserve and one of the first places settled in Ohio. One of
our local cemeteries has guys who fought in the Revolutionary War.

Not long ago I found myself in center Concord, MA. Needing water, and
having found the fountains at Walden pond to be out of service, I went
to the visitor center. Being in a very crunchy town this facility has a
map of local water fountains so that visitors can limit their use of
ecociding disposable water bottles. Naturally their own water fountain
was disabled, perhaps as an anti-covid measure.

So I went to Sleepy Hollow cemetery, a few blocks away. Who knew that
Washington Irving didn't make it up? Their water taps are reliable and
refreshing, and I availed myself.

Like most cemeteries in New England, it's built on a hilly site,
presumably one that no one wanted to farm. Lots of literary names on
the stones.

The funny thing about America is that everybody and his great aunt Mabel
think it's natural that their remains should take up space in a cemetery
somewhere *forever*. In places with more history this is obviously just
silly. One has to be really famous to camp on a burial plot for more
than a few hundred years.

--