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Car daytime running lights



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 21st 08, 10:29 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
David Hansen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,206
Default Car daytime running lights

A while ago I mentioned that the EU were trying to make things even
more dangerous for cyclists by introducing these things. I contacted
my MEP, who has discovered that this idea is being pushed by parts
of the UN, no doubt the same sort of people who are pushing bike
helmets.

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_traffic/un_collaboration/unrs2_appendices.pdf
is something which mentions both things. However, the UN is so
inpenetrable that it is difficult to know what is going on and then
lobby about it.

I suggest others take this up with their MEP.

Here is most of the reply I got from my MEP.

================================================== ==================

This is an idea which is soon likely to be given approval not by the
European Union, but by the United Nations. In anticipation of this
the European Union has started its own research as to how the idea
could be taken on board in the EU. The European Commission has done
this by launching a consultation with all groups involved in road
transport.

The consultation is still on going. The Department for Transport has
taken part in this and made it clear the UK is opposed to the idea.

For my part I am against DRLs for many reasons. Firstly, making cars
run with headlights on will increase fuel consumption. This makes no
sense at a time when we should be seriously trying to combat climate
change. It will also increase costs for motorists.

Daytime running lights on cars will also distract attention from
vulnerable road users such as cyclists, motorbikes and pedestrians
putting them at greater risk. This would compromise road safety
rather than improve it.

Finally, it makes no sense to have an EU law which would require
drivers in Cyprus to drive with head lights on in the same way as a
driver in Sweden for example.

It is not yet guaranteed that this consultation will result in an EU
law. However, I will continue to raise objections to this idea in
European Parliament discussions on road safety.

================================================== ==================




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
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  #2  
Old March 21st 08, 11:57 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
naked_draughtsman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default Car daytime running lights

On Mar 21, 9:29 am, David Hansen
wrote:
This is an idea which is soon likely to be given approval not by the
European Union, but by the United Nations. In anticipation of this
the European Union has started its own research as to how the idea
could be taken on board in the EU. The European Commission has done
this by launching a consultation with all groups involved in road
transport.


I guess what they mean is they're consulting with the DfT and
counterparts rather than people who this might affect such as cycling
and motoring groups.

peter
  #3  
Old March 21st 08, 12:35 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Just zis Guy, you know?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,612
Default Car daytime running lights

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:57:08 -0700 (PDT), naked_draughtsman
said in
:

I guess what they mean is they're consulting with the DfT and
counterparts rather than people who this might affect such as cycling
and motoring groups.


No, I think it's just the other definition of consulting, the one
used by governments. "Good, that's all settled, now we'll just
arrange the consultation to approve it".

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
  #4  
Old March 21st 08, 10:59 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
John Grove
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Car daytime running lights


"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:57:08 -0700 (PDT), naked_draughtsman
said in
:

I guess what they mean is they're consulting with the DfT and
counterparts rather than people who this might affect such as cycling
and motoring groups.


No, I think it's just the other definition of consulting, the one
used by governments. "Good, that's all settled, now we'll just
arrange the consultation to approve it".

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound


If the EU OJ says sidelights for running lights then the British Civil
service mandarins
will translate it to mean full headlights, spotlights and fog lights to be
on at all times.
and the Police will enforce this with a will to raise revenue.

The French Italians Spanish and Greeks will pass it into law and ignore it.
The Germans will act sensibly together with the other nations,

The EU OJ is the European Union Official Journal.
When a regulation is published in the EU OJ all member states have to take
it into their law,


  #5  
Old March 21st 08, 11:15 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Car daytime running lights

John Grove wrote:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
naked_draughtsman :


I guess what they mean is they're consulting with the DfT and
counterparts rather than people who this might affect such as cycling
and motoring groups.


No, I think it's just the other definition of consulting, the one
used by governments. "Good, that's all settled, now we'll just
arrange the consultation to approve it".


If the EU OJ says sidelights for running lights then the British Civil
service mandarins will translate it to mean full headlights, spotlights
and fog lights to be on at all times.
and the Police will enforce this with a will to raise revenue.


The French Italians Spanish and Greeks will pass it into law and ignore it.
The Germans will act sensibly together with the other nations


The EU OJ is the European Union Official Journal.
When a regulation is published in the EU OJ all member states have to take
it into their law,


The Italians already have this law (but only outside built-up areas).
The place it is most honoured is on the autostrada.
  #6  
Old March 21st 08, 11:55 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Jeff[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 83
Default Car daytime running lights

David Hansen wrote:
A while ago I mentioned that the EU were trying to make things even
more dangerous for cyclists by introducing these things. I contacted
my MEP, who has discovered that this idea is being pushed by parts
of the UN, no doubt the same sort of people who are pushing bike
helmets.

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_traffic/un_collaboration/unrs2_appendices.pdf
is something which mentions both things. However, the UN is so
inpenetrable that it is difficult to know what is going on and then
lobby about it.

I suggest others take this up with their MEP.

Here is most of the reply I got from my MEP.

================================================== ==================

This is an idea which is soon likely to be given approval not by the
European Union, but by the United Nations. In anticipation of this
the European Union has started its own research as to how the idea
could be taken on board in the EU. The European Commission has done
this by launching a consultation with all groups involved in road
transport.

The consultation is still on going. The Department for Transport has
taken part in this and made it clear the UK is opposed to the idea.

For my part I am against DRLs for many reasons. Firstly, making cars
run with headlights on will increase fuel consumption. This makes no
sense at a time when we should be seriously trying to combat climate
change. It will also increase costs for motorists.

Daytime running lights on cars will also distract attention from
vulnerable road users such as cyclists, motorbikes and pedestrians
putting them at greater risk. This would compromise road safety
rather than improve it.

Finally, it makes no sense to have an EU law which would require
drivers in Cyprus to drive with head lights on in the same way as a
driver in Sweden for example.

It is not yet guaranteed that this consultation will result in an EU
law. However, I will continue to raise objections to this idea in
European Parliament discussions on road safety.

================================================== ==================




Some feedback on your arguments against DRLs.

1. Increased fuel consumption: the amount of power required for DRLs,
as compared to the power required to move the car, is very small.
Simply changing a few driving habits would easily save more fuel than
DRLs would consume.

2. Distracting attention from other road users: motorcycles and
bicycles can have DRLs too. Having driven amongst cars with DRLs, I
don't find them particularly distracting unless the lights are misaligned.

3. Cyprus v Sweden: This may have some merit (I suspect that Cyprus is
probably brighter during the day, on average, than is Sweden. However,
while Cypriots might not benefit as much as would Swedes, having a
common set of rules EU-wide simplifies life for everyone (no more "Oh
dear, what are the local rules?").
  #7  
Old March 22nd 08, 12:05 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Martin Dann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 907
Default Car daytime running lights

David Hansen wrote:
A while ago I mentioned that the EU were trying to make things even
more dangerous for cyclists by introducing these things. I contacted
my MEP, who has discovered that this idea is being pushed by parts
of the UN, no doubt the same sort of people who are pushing bike
helmets.



This (DLRs) has been discussed in Parliament a few times, and according
to the minister for something or other, this has already been passed
into car manufacturing regulations, such that all new cars from 2012
will have to be built with DLRs.

Martin.
  #8  
Old March 22nd 08, 01:13 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mark T[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 525
Default Car daytime running lights

Jeff writtificated

Some feedback on your arguments against DRLs.


2. Distracting attention from other road users: motorcycles and
bicycles can have DRLs too. Having driven amongst cars with DRLs, I
don't find them particularly distracting unless the lights are
misaligned.


This misses the point. Drivers will look for lights. A bicycle light will
be not be nearly as bright as car lights. Pedestrians will not have
lights. Motorcycles, instead of being more visible than cars will be half
as visible.

The effect is small, but there are a huge amount of journeys made.

having a common set of rules EU-wide simplifies life for everyone (no
more "Oh dear, what are the local rules?").


I'd prefer not to have extra deaths and serious injuries simply to save
tourists the embarrasment of forgetting to put their side lights on.
  #9  
Old March 22nd 08, 09:55 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nigel Cliffe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 62
Default Car daytime running lights

Martin Dann wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
A while ago I mentioned that the EU were trying to make things even
more dangerous for cyclists by introducing these things. I contacted
my MEP, who has discovered that this idea is being pushed by parts
of the UN, no doubt the same sort of people who are pushing bike
helmets.



This (DLRs) has been discussed in Parliament a few times, and
according to the minister for something or other, this has already
been passed into car manufacturing regulations, such that all new
cars from 2012 will have to be built with DLRs.


That was what I thought as well, though couldn't point to a definitive
reference on the topic.

C&U changes are not usually retrospective on existing vehicles.



- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/


  #10  
Old March 22nd 08, 08:55 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
naked_draughtsman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default Car daytime running lights

On Mar 21, 9:59 pm, "John Grove"
wrote:
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in messagenews:kb77u3l0c6pofle0c66bmlgrbpm8s39724@4ax .com...



On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:57:08 -0700 (PDT), naked_draughtsman
said in
:


I guess what they mean is they're consulting with the DfT and
counterparts rather than people who this might affect such as cycling
and motoring groups.


No, I think it's just the other definition of consulting, the one
used by governments. "Good, that's all settled, now we'll just
arrange the consultation to approve it".


Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk


85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound


If the EU OJ says sidelights for running lights then the British Civil
service mandarins
will translate it to mean full headlights, spotlights and fog lights to be
on at all times.
and the Police will enforce this with a will to raise revenue.


You'd like to think so, but they currently don't seem to be able to
enforce the mobile phone ban or the requirement to have working lights
at night (on cars or bikes).

peter
 




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