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#21
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Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
NetWiz wrote: Dear all, I've spent most of the day hunting the net on informations on those bikes. While positive feedback is plenty for the trek madone 5.9 (everyone loves it), Orbea Orca's is another story. Some articles put it above the trek, some put it under. Whatever, I need to make a choice ;-) Practically, I'm a heavy rider (85 kgs), enjoying comfort on distances in the 50-100kms range. I'm looking at longer distances too. I'm planning to move my Ksyrium elites and Shimano group to the new frame. So far, I'd be tempted to look at it and think they're the same quality. Therefore the best design wins (and here Orbea wins all the time over Trek). Are there other feedbacks ? Any reason why I should prefer one vs the other ? yep, easy, which one fits you the best? Also look at some other carbon frames out there. All have goods and others. Calfee, Merckx, Look, to same just a few. Also ride the two examples as well as others. We try to not say how anything rides, but have some demo bikes so that the rider can decide. Ride it for an hour or so, NOT a ride around the block. Some have said the Treks are somewhat unlively, some like them but YOU decide. Thanks ! NetWiz. |
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#22
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Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: Trek also has an advantage over most others in that they build the frames themselves, rather than contract it out to someone else (very rare in the bicycle industry; most carbon frames are built by one of three facilities in China & Taiwan). Presently, the advantage Chinese manufacturing has is cost, while the advantage Trek has is technology. The chief technology engineer at Trek tells me that, as long as they can keep a 3-4 year lead on technology, I guess that's true of frames such as Giant and Specialized but most 'high end' carbon frames that are 'competative' with the Mad-One, are not from Taiwan or China, rather from small makers that also hand build their frames, in the US, many using the same tubeset maker as Trek. they can remain competitive despite cost advantages overseas. The tough part is maintaining that lead, since the Chinese can reverse-engineer just about anything. The day Trek can't will mark the end of their domestic carbon production, which is something they hope not to see. Do keep in mind that anything I say is to be regarded as highly-suspect, since we're the largest Trek carbon-fiber road bike dealer in the US. :) --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com "NetWiz" wrote in message oups.com... Dear all, I've spent most of the day hunting the net on informations on those bikes. While positive feedback is plenty for the trek madone 5.9 (everyone loves it), Orbea Orca's is another story. Some articles put it above the trek, some put it under. Whatever, I need to make a choice ;-) Practically, I'm a heavy rider (85 kgs), enjoying comfort on distances in the 50-100kms range. I'm looking at longer distances too. I'm planning to move my Ksyrium elites and Shimano group to the new frame. So far, I'd be tempted to look at it and think they're the same quality. Therefore the best design wins (and here Orbea wins all the time over Trek). Are there other feedbacks ? Any reason why I should prefer one vs the other ? Thanks ! NetWiz. |
#23
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:43:07 -0700, jim beam wrote: it's not a matter of faith - it's a matter of intrumentation. if the rate of transmission is reduced, as is unarguably the case with composites, so is the acceleration and therefore the force tranmitted to whatever you touch your bike with. having taken the trouble to buy, fit & ride no less than 5 carbon forks into the same steel frame so i could make reasonable comparison with the original steel fork, even without instrumentation, i can tell you that all 5 carbon forks transmit noticably less road buzz than the steel. But forks are not trusses and behave completely differently than frames in terms of vertical flex so you troublesome high-cost experiement says nothing about frames. don't be a victim of misinformation john: axial transmission is axial transmission. JT PS -- on your fork test, I assume you ran it blind somehow. No? Hmmm. **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#24
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
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#25
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 06:51:37 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: JT PS -- on your fork test, I assume you ran it blind somehow. No? Hmmm. Let me guess, you don't trust your senses, and only believe that blind, preferably double blind, testing is relevant. I personally trust my senses. Life is Good! Jeff |
#26
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:35:42 GMT, Jeff Starr
wrote: On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 06:51:37 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: JT PS -- on your fork test, I assume you ran it blind somehow. No? Hmmm. Let me guess, you don't trust your senses, and only believe that blind, preferably double blind, testing is relevant. I personally trust my senses. I trust my senses when I have no pre-conceptions. And I trust them when they contradict my biases. But when they merely confirm them I need other information befor deciding something. JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#27
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
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#28
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
Let me guess, you don't trust your senses, and only believe that
blind, preferably double blind, testing is relevant. I personally trust my senses. I'm sure your senses are real good. Especially your sense of sight. Your sense of sight will heavily influence what your other senses tell you. ------------- Alex Alex: I'll bet you're incorrect in assuming that "sight" is the most-important sense in terms of comparing bike frames. I vote for sound. People fail to appreciate the degree to which acoustics comes into play when saying they prefer one frame over another. Frame material changes how things sound when you're shifting, when you hit bumps, probably even noises coming from the wheels. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA "Alex Rodriguez" wrote in message ... In article , says... Let me guess, you don't trust your senses, and only believe that blind, preferably double blind, testing is relevant. I personally trust my senses. I'm sure your senses are real good. Especially your sense of sight. Your sense of sight will heavily influence what your other senses tell you. ------------- Alex |
#29
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
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#30
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[Frame question] Orbea Orca or Madone 5.9 ?
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:35:42 GMT, Jeff Starr wrote:
Let me guess, you don't trust your senses, and only believe that blind, preferably double blind, testing is relevant. I personally trust my senses. So do the people who say they can hear the difference between $10 worth of lamp wire and $1000+ worth of speaker cable. Who, surprise surprise, cannot manage anything more than random luck even in single blind AB or ABX testing, let alone doubleblind. Jasper |
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