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#21
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
On Apr 18, 8:41 pm, jim beam wrote:
blackhead wrote: Are there any impartial tests that have been done on Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks? Some people say carbon absorbs vibration better than steel and Aluminium, others say it makes little difference... etc etc the best "impartial" test you can do is ride them yourself and compare. not something some people with mere opinions are prone to do. The best impartial test would be to take a given bike, and install various forks of identical geometry. Keep everything else exactly the same. Have several riders (say, at least five) ride the bike with each fork, and report on their impressions. BUT you must mix the order in which the forks are tested, and most important, you must cover the forks so the test is blind. Otherwise the rider will be swayed by his preconceptions. The placebo effect is powerful. Any test that hopes to remove bias, but relies on people's perceptions, has to account for the placebo effect and disable it as much as possible. - Frank Krygowski |
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#23
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
In article ,
Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote: On 4/19/2008 6:31 AM wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:58:51 -0800, agcou wrote: On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:55:23 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:23:53 -0700 (PDT), blackhead wrote: Are there any impartial tests that have been done on Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks? Some people say carbon absorbs vibration better than steel and Aluminium, others say it makes little difference... etc etc The differences of design, materials quality and manufacture are greater than the differences in the materials themselves. Even in weight there is an intersection between the three. I've got bikes with all three and they've all got something going for them. Really depends on what you're doing with the bike and which forks you're choosing from. Did you read the OP's question? Yeah, there are no impartial tests that establish the relative characteristics of forks made from different materials. Such a test would have to hold all other variables constant in a way that simply isn't possible. How come? Not arguing, just curious. Seems (to me, not a mechanical engineer nor wrench) that one could get three forks with same geometry, tilt at proper head tube angle, clamp dropouts to shaker table, add mass loading from above, hang some accelerometers on the stem and let 'er rip. Just to see, y'know? Let me know when carbon fibre forks are made in this geometry, or Al for that matter. http://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-international/index.html -- Michael Press |
#24
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
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#25
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
On Apr 17, 5:23 pm, blackhead wrote:
Are there any impartial tests that have been done on Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks? Some people say carbon absorbs vibration better than steel and Aluminium, others say it makes little difference... etc etc I prefer a composite made from the woven pubic hair of a virgin combined with celluloid. It's a thrilling ride with the liveliness of a ping pong ball. |
#26
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
On Apr 19, 10:18 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
wrote: On 4/19/2008 6:57 AM wrote: On Apr 19, 9:48 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote: On 4/19/2008 6:31 AM wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:58:51 -0800, agcou wrote: On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:55:23 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:23:53 -0700 (PDT), blackhead wrote: Are there any impartial tests that have been done on Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks? Some people say carbon absorbs vibration better than steel and Aluminium, others say it makes little difference... etc etc The differences of design, materials quality and manufacture are greater than the differences in the materials themselves. Even in weight there is an intersection between the three. I've got bikes with all three and they've all got something going for them. Really depends on what you're doing with the bike and which forks you're choosing from. Did you read the OP's question? Yeah, there are no impartial tests that establish the relative characteristics of forks made from different materials. Such a test would have to hold all other variables constant in a way that simply isn't possible. How come? Not arguing, just curious. Seems (to me, not a mechanical engineer nor wrench) that one could get three forks with same geometry, tilt at proper head tube angle, clamp dropouts to shaker table, add mass loading from above, hang some accelerometers on the stem and let 'er rip. Just to see, y'know? -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" That won't tell you much about the materials though. You could do the same test with three carbon forks with the same geometry and get vastly different results. I assume we're not saying that quality control is so poor that three forks of the same brand/model would not measure the same. More like small changes in fork shapes, cross-sections, etc., have a bigger influence on vibration transmission than the the material itself. So the chances of finding three forks of different materials which are built sufficiently similar that those other factors will not contribute to the results is slim to none. -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Right. Three forks of the same make and model should be exactly the same (although variance is likely to go up substantially at the bottom end of the market), but you can't just test one carbon fork next to one aluminum fork and say that the difference is the material. Whatever vibration parameter you're measuring is going to have a big enough range across different models of carbon forks that it's going to overlap with the range across different models of aluminum forks. |
#27
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
wrote:
On Apr 19, 10:18 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote: On 4/19/2008 6:57 AM wrote: On Apr 19, 9:48 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote: On 4/19/2008 6:31 AM wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:58:51 -0800, agcou wrote: On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:55:23 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:23:53 -0700 (PDT), blackhead wrote: Are there any impartial tests that have been done on Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks? Some people say carbon absorbs vibration better than steel and Aluminium, others say it makes little difference... etc etc The differences of design, materials quality and manufacture are greater than the differences in the materials themselves. Even in weight there is an intersection between the three. I've got bikes with all three and they've all got something going for them. Really depends on what you're doing with the bike and which forks you're choosing from. Did you read the OP's question? Yeah, there are no impartial tests that establish the relative characteristics of forks made from different materials. Such a test would have to hold all other variables constant in a way that simply isn't possible. How come? Not arguing, just curious. Seems (to me, not a mechanical engineer nor wrench) that one could get three forks with same geometry, tilt at proper head tube angle, clamp dropouts to shaker table, add mass loading from above, hang some accelerometers on the stem and let 'er rip. Just to see, y'know? -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" That won't tell you much about the materials though. You could do the same test with three carbon forks with the same geometry and get vastly different results. I assume we're not saying that quality control is so poor that three forks of the same brand/model would not measure the same. More like small changes in fork shapes, cross-sections, etc., have a bigger influence on vibration transmission than the the material itself. So the chances of finding three forks of different materials which are built sufficiently similar that those other factors will not contribute to the results is slim to none. -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Right. Three forks of the same make and model should be exactly the same (although variance is likely to go up substantially at the bottom end of the market), but you can't just test one carbon fork next to one aluminum fork and say that the difference is the material. but previously you were saying there would be "vastly different results" - which of these conflicting statements would you have us believe? Whatever vibration parameter you're measuring is going to have a big enough range across different models of carbon forks that it's going to overlap with the range across different models of aluminum forks. do you know that for fact? or are you simply presenting presumption as fact? [rhetorical] |
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
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#29
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
On Apr 20, 11:33 am, Ben C wrote:
... So it's better to compare complete forks as sold and then say something like "out of the 100 forks tested, the CF ones mostly absorbed vibration better than the Al ones". But only if that's actually true; and only if it's true to a degree beyond "negligible." I think enforcing those two points would eliminate most bicycle component advertising and hype. (Ceramic bearings, anyone?) - Frank Krygowski |
#30
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Comparison of Auminium, Steel and Carbon forks?
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