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bike to work, but bicycling commuters are seen, I think, as
ecologically aware now, whereas ten years ago they were probably just
thought of as "broke".

I'd like to think of myself as both. Mine is the kind of style that
spans a decade....

"Rangersfan" wrote in message
news:wwQ%d.10804$wL6.10216@trnddc03...

I've seen some excellent mom and pop coffee shops go out of business
because of charbucks.

I've seen several go out of business without any help from Starbucks. I know
of at least one Mom and Pop whose standard of living went up significantly
when they closed their own store and took store-management jobs with
Starbucks.

Charbucks succeeds were others fail because they have a superior business
model, not because they have a superior product.

Sez you. No disrespect intended, but it's a matter of taste.

The coffee at charbucks tastes insipid to me. As far as I'm concerned,
trying to get a great cup of coffee at charbucks is like trying to get a
great steak at McDonalds. I certainly can't knock their business model
though. They roast their coffee at central locations to save money. They
overroast their beans to add "flavor" because most of the real flavor is
lost in the 2-3 months that passes between when the beans are roasted and
when they find their way into your cup. They also overroast to give their
coffee a consistent "flavor". A charred coffee bean pretty much tastes
the same no matter where you go. The fact that charbucks succeeds so well
goes to show that most people who frequent them don't know what good
coffee is and are easily swayed by atmostphere and salesmanship.

Or the fact that you don't like their coffee shows that you're an arrogant
snob who resents success. Now I'm not saying that's true, but it's no more
provable than your opinion.

RichC

"Rich Clark" wrote in message
...

Charbucks succeeds were others fail because they have a superior business
model, not because they have a superior product.

Sez you. No disrespect intended, but it's a matter of taste.

Actually it's a matter of knowing the differences between what makes a good
cup of coffee and what doesn't.


The coffee at charbucks tastes insipid to me. As far as I'm concerned,
trying to get a great cup of coffee at charbucks is like trying to get a
great steak at McDonalds. I certainly can't knock their business model
though. They roast their coffee at central locations to save money.
They overroast their beans to add "flavor" because most of the real
flavor is lost in the 2-3 months that passes between when the beans are
roasted and when they find their way into your cup. They also overroast
to give their coffee a consistent "flavor". A charred coffee bean pretty
much tastes the same no matter where you go. The fact that charbucks
succeeds so well goes to show that most people who frequent them don't
know what good coffee is and are easily swayed by atmostphere and
salesmanship.

Or the fact that you don't like their coffee shows that you're an arrogant
snob who resents success. Now I'm not saying that's true, but it's no more
provable than your opinion.

I find it interesting that you would thumb your nose and DD coffee (who
actually has a very good cup these days) and then accuse me of being
arrogant. It sounds to me as if you're the type of person who truly
believes he's getting a better cup because he pays 3-4 times more from a
place that uses Italian to describe their cup sizes. If I went to a
restaraunt and paid $20 for a steak and then got a bad one, I wouldn't be
returning. It's the same with charbucks. If I pay $3 for a cup of coffee,
I expect the highest quality.

My experience with quality coffee started when I was in Europe and found out
what a quality coffee really was (years before charbucks was ever
conceived). I've since taken the time to learn how to roast my own coffee
and prepare a very good cup. You are right in that it is just my opinion.
However my opinion comes from many years of experience with a hobby that I
enjoy very much. If you read someone claimed a Huffy was superior to a
Trek, would you call the person that rebuffed them arrogant? It's still a
matter of opinion isn't it?

"Rangersfan" wrote in message
news:vVf0e.14451$GI6.10234@trnddc05...

I find it interesting that you would thumb your nose and DD coffee (who
actually has a very good cup these days) and then accuse me of being
arrogant. It sounds to me as if you're the type of person who truly
believes he's getting a better cup because he pays 3-4 times more from a
place that uses Italian to describe their cup sizes. If I went to a
restaraunt and paid $20 for a steak and then got a bad one, I wouldn't be
returning. It's the same with charbucks. If I pay $3 for a cup of
coffee, I expect the highest quality.

My experience with quality coffee started when I was in Europe and found
out what a quality coffee really was (years before charbucks was ever
conceived). I've since taken the time to learn how to roast my own coffee
and prepare a very good cup. You are right in that it is just my opinion.
However my opinion comes from many years of experience with a hobby that I
enjoy very much. If you read someone claimed a Huffy was superior to a
Trek, would you call the person that rebuffed them arrogant? It's still a
matter of opinion isn't it?

Yes it is, although there's a difference between things that can be proved
and things that can't that I should not have to point out to you. I also
know that people can convince themselves of anything, and the more they
invest themselves in something the more heavily entrenched they become in
defending it. So enjoy your expertise. That and a coupla bucks will buy
you... a cup of coffee.

RichC

"Rich Clark" wrote in message
...

Yes it is, although there's a difference between things that can be proved
and things that can't that I should not have to point out to you. I also
know that people can convince themselves of anything, and the more they
invest themselves in something the more heavily entrenched they become in
defending it. So enjoy your expertise. That and a coupla bucks will buy
you... a cup of coffee.

Not at charbucks. Enjoy your $3 cup of coffee too.

Rangersfan wrote:
"Rich Clark" wrote in message
...

Yes it is, although there's a difference between things that can be
proved
and things that can't that I should not have to point out to you. I
also
know that people can convince themselves of anything, and the more
they
invest themselves in something the more heavily entrenched they
become in
defending it. So enjoy your expertise. That and a coupla bucks
will buy
you... a cup of coffee.

Not at charbucks. Enjoy your $3 cup of coffee too.

Where do people get this ****? A 20-oz coffee is less than $2 at every
Starbucks I've ever been in, from Manhattan to Philadelphia to Chicago
to Anaheim. Few decent restaurants sell better coffee for less money
per ounce.

Making up cutesy mocking names and engaging in hyperbole is not
debating. It's schoolyard taunting.

RichC