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#11
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
In article ,
rooman wrote: (By the way I will ask JK about Shane Stanley and see what the perspective is about his claim to seek some balance. If it is entertaining and/or revealing I will publish.) Please do, and then I can tell you the rest of the story. It *is* entertaining, in an odd sort of way. Ask him if he keeps a pump in his shop. Or drop me a line and I'll buy you a coffee and tell you the whole story in person -- I'm only about a mile from his shop these days, and I gather you live locally too. -- Shane Stanley |
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#12
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
In article ,
byron27 wrote: Whats really rotten is bikeshops charging 150 odd bucks on top of the price of the bike to fit you to it. I thought that was included in buying a bike? As long as they say so up-front, I have no problem with that. In fact, I really like the idea of paying for a decent fitting service that's independent of any sales push (as it should be if you are paying). Finding it is another question. -- Shane Stanley |
#13
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
"rooman" wrote in message ... Having a chat to "you know who" this morn and he said in the past month & half, 15 different people have brought in mass produced "name" bikes to him for correction fitting, bikes they have bought from the LBS's around Melb. and new purchases had for about a month and all complain "I cant ride this bike- it hurts too much!". is it the LBS's who have no idea about fit, is it the production bikes that are being churned out and don't deliver value/pain free riding for hard earned bucks... I know my physiology dictates I need a custom. BUT this surely isnt the case for the bulk of riders OR IS IT.? I ask this in good faith as it concerns me that riders are getting sore, with debilitating aches and pains which affect concentration and thus safety. The comment was made that some of these people were told by their LBS's when they complained of sore backs and necks and hands - "You are supposed to get sore when you ride a bike, its normal!!!)...sheesh The value for money for mass produced bikes arguments I've heard, but here we are talking about not just the lower priced offerings in the market, but the "so-called" top end things, . These are $8-10,000+ bikes, these bikes just dont cut it either and the owners are saying to "you know who", 'I want a new frame, can we use use the running gear and salvage something from all this?'. so effectively they are tossing a piece of carbon or design marvel away that is around 60-70% or more of their original purchase outlay. I'm sure this isnt confined to Melb. If we ask the other bike fitters around the traps across Aus. (or the world, and there arnt too many,but enough) will they too have the same experience?. This is not a push for any particular approach other than ,I hope, manufacturers and LBS's can produce/sell bikes with strict guidlines of safety first , comfort, no pain and no long term injury potential from bad fit, before greedy profit taking from mass assembly & sly marketing. In this last decade there has been "mysterious" gradual move away from the classic design of relaxed larger frames to more smaller, compact frames , with upright forward seating positions and less relaxed angles. This has no doubt reduced production costs and maximised profit, It has also dictated that bikes are less suitable for the bulk of the market IMHO. The emphasis on lightness too has added to this, so a smaller size offering is a nice way of saying to a bigger rider, you can get up hills easier- not . "lose that gut and the excess 15kgs you have". I see many riders on the road on "little"bikes, that look very uncomfortable ( and probably are)... discussion...anyone...anyone it takes guts to admit your new purchase you have always dreamed about doesnt cut the mustard...so let us know...is there a case here? Feedback for the manufacturers, are you one of these souls who has second thoughts about your new purchase?... -- rooman I get a lot of people in my shop complaining about pain when they ride. Often it's knee pain (bum pain is expected by newbies). There are at least two bike shops that are selling bikes to newbies with the advice that the right sized bike is one that they can put both feet on the ground when sitting on the seat. Most of the time simply adjusting the seat height gives some relief, but I often see the same people a few weeks later complaining about being cramped up because the bike's too short. I always advise them that they will get to that point, so it's no surprise when they come back for a new stem. Again, I have to advise them that fiddling the fit like that is pretty well a bodgie fix - fact is that the bike is too small and they'll need to get another at a certain level of cycling. Quite a few have, some are content to stay at pootle pace and the fiddled bike is sufficient for them. I can't understand the ethics of flogging a bike that fits so badly (assuming the seller actually knows about bike fit). If the seller is unaware, what are they doing selling bikes?? Although it's good for my business from a sales point of view, it offends my moral sense that so many people are being ripped off either through ignorance or the desire for a fast buck. It's gaining me more custom, but why do other shops shoot themselves in the foot like that? me |
#14
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
The thing about this argument is though, that is not really the right place for this argument, I mean seriously who here on these forums bought their bike because it was for "w@nk" factor down at the local coffee shop. I don't even drink coffee for f@cks sake, let alone attend the coffee shop after a ride. It is always a case of you get what you pay for and if you go for an off the shelf bike you are probably going to be alright, but there are always going to be the few exceptions. And then you are going to have the "shops" who will claim to be able to magically fit you onto your bike if you don't quite fit, or then say, well we can't fit you properly on this one, ever thought of a custom bike *cha ching* ? There is always someone out there in every type of business happy to take your money from you in 1 way or another. LBS are not different to anyone else, there are the standout shops who have good reputations that they have becuase of the people in the shop and I have found when staff turnover happens the repuatation of a shop can change dramatically one way or the other. -- MikeyOz |
#15
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
On Apr 17, 10:21 pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:53:17 +1000 rooman wrote: The comment was made that some of these people were told by their LBS's when they complained of sore backs and necks and hands - "You are supposed to get sore when you ride a bike, its normal!!!)...sheesh It's the mantra of the 'bent rider of course, "No pain!". Which is bull****. I've done a few hours in/on a 'bent, and been unable to walk for a day afterwards. I've done 2 Melbourne to Warrnabools and been fine afterwards, but 90 mins in a racing 'bent and I was a cripple. They are different, but they are not perfect. For some people, they're a good option, but they are not for everyone. |
#16
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
In aus.bicycle on 17 Apr 2007 18:07:29 -0700
Bleve wrote: On Apr 17, 10:21 pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote: In aus.bicycle on Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:53:17 +1000 rooman wrote: The comment was made that some of these people were told by their LBS's when they complained of sore backs and necks and hands - "You are supposed to get sore when you ride a bike, its normal!!!)...sheesh It's the mantra of the 'bent rider of course, "No pain!". Which is bull****. I've done a few hours in/on a 'bent, and been unable to walk for a day afterwards. *grin* racing bikes that you do lots of work on occasionally are a bugger aren't they! Why you'd think that a runner who gets on a racing upright and does a few hours riding and hurts is a really good reason that no one should ride uprights.... Zebee |
#17
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
Shane Stanley Wrote: In article , rooman wrote: (By the way I will ask JK about Shane Stanley and see what the perspective is about his claim to seek some balance. If it is entertaining and/or revealing I will publish.) Please do, and then I can tell you the rest of the story. It *is* entertaining, in an odd sort of way. Ask him if he keeps a pump in his shop. Or drop me a line and I'll buy you a coffee and tell you the whole story in person -- I'm only about a mile from his shop these days, and I gather you live locally too. -- Shane StanleyShane , I spoke to JK. Seems he never gave you a full bike-fit, you came in for a measure, which is not a bike-fit ( which is a start to establishing tube dimensions and angles for riding aspirations and physiology and is only part of the bike fit equation)... and it was incomplete as your bar height and seat position couldnt be determined at that time. He never sold you a bike, and if you did get a bike from some where else you didnt bring it in for a "fit", at which time your bar height and seat position would have been established. So not sure what you see as "rotten", or how it fits in context here other than you two didnt see eye to eye on things ( and your budget wouldnt allow it -you admit that was "tight") ... were you just tire kicking then...and now nitpicking for the sake of it? He still has your measures and would be happy to talk to you about whatever you believe is an issue and your attempts to first "fit" yourself and then correct your own fit when you couldnt do it. No doubting JK is a character and in his own inimitable way doesnt see eye to eye with some folk, we all have that experIEnce as we go through life.... it makes things interesting. -- rooman |
#18
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
On Apr 18, 12:23 pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on 17 Apr 2007 18:07:29 -0700 Bleve wrote: On Apr 17, 10:21 pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote: In aus.bicycle on Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:53:17 +1000 rooman wrote: The comment was made that some of these people were told by their LBS's when they complained of sore backs and necks and hands - "You are supposed to get sore when you ride a bike, its normal!!!)...sheesh It's the mantra of the 'bent rider of course, "No pain!". Which is bull****. I've done a few hours in/on a 'bent, and been unable to walk for a day afterwards. *grin* racing bikes that you do lots of work on occasionally are a bugger aren't they! Why you'd think that a runner who gets on a racing upright and does a few hours riding and hurts is a really good reason that no one should ride uprights.... Read what I wrote again, Zebee. They are *not* 'no pain'. They are a solution for some people, but not everyone. They may suit *you*, and that's good, but they are not for everyone and they are not 'no pain' for everyone. My personal experience of riding one for ~1:15 at an average of around 200 watts (bugger-all) was very painful. It certainly didn't work for me. |
#19
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
In aus.bicycle on 18 Apr 2007 00:17:42 -0700
Bleve wrote: Read what I wrote again, Zebee. They are *not* 'no pain'. They are a solution for some people, but not everyone. They may suit *you*, and that's good, but they are not for everyone and they are not 'no pain' for everyone. I know they aren't no pain, and I know they aren't for everyone. But hey, light hearted raillery ain't your thing? Zebee |
#20
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Is there something rotten in the world of mass produced bicycles?
On 2007-04-17, Plodder (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: I can't understand the ethics of flogging a bike that fits so badly Ethics doesn't come into it. Only ignorance -- too many of them, not enough of us. (assuming the seller actually knows about bike fit). Of course they don't. Not too many people do. I found myself giving bike fit advice to a few colleagues in Melbourne[1] -- I was doing at least as well as the non-bike shops they bought off, because I have read a couple of articles about bike fit -- a couple of more articles than them. If the seller is unaware, what are they doing selling bikes?? Making money. You can make money without knowing every detail of the field you are selling in, as long as your customers are at least as ignorant as you. [1] Huzzah, and I got a local off his clunker "dual" suspension. -- TimC Shame on you! Don't you love her? Girls don't want Kmart specials, they want carbon - either as diamonds or as CF bikes! -- Tamyka in aus.bicycle |
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