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  #81  
Old January 26th 20, 12:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 1:23:43 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/25/2020 4:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/25/2020 2:59 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2020 8:54 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 13:58:40 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/24/2020 12:57 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:


The founders of this nation, thank God, were very
powerful thinkers. But to you they were dopes and you
know much better.

They were fairly sharp guys. Not gods, not saints, not
infallible, but
sharp guys.

They believed in well-regulated militias. That was
understood quite well
for about 200 years.

They believed in a militia quite simply because that is
all that they
there was in the 1700's and yes, they tossed in the word
"well
regulated", apparently in hope, as none of the state
militias of the
1700's were what one might call "well regulated" and yes,
there is
sufficient history availableÂ* to realize this. Read up on the
Penobscot Expedition.

It was only in very recent times that the firearms
industry and some gun
nuts got lawyers to convince activist judges that all
precedents and all
previous legal thought should be thrown into a trash can
and shot to
hell with an AR-15 fitted with a bump stock.

Read some history Frank. In the 1700's there was no
standing army in
the colonies and the only armed defense available was the
town/state
militia which by the mid 1700's were being viewed with
some dismay by
the colonial governments. When Washington tried to
mobilize the
Virginia Militia to fight against an Indian attack, in
1755, the
follow was written,
" he experienced all the evils of insubordination among
the troups,
perverseness in the militia, inactivity in the officers,
disregard of
orders, and reluctance in the civil authorities to render
a proper
support."

Thus, I suggest, the term "well regulated" might well have
more then a
cursory meaning.

As for AR-15's I might comment that contrary to popular
belief the
bulk of the "continental Army, and the militia before them
were armed
with smooth bore muskets - the rapid fire weapon of the
era. From all
the records I can find there were in the neighborhood of
1,500
riflemen, in total, in the Colonial army during the war.
However
rifles may have been a factor in the Colonial victory in
the battle of
The Battle of King's Mountain.

I can only assume due to the rapid acceptance of fully
automatic
weapons by various forces in modern times that had a
weapon like the
AR-15 been available in 1775 that both sides would have
adopted it :-)
Aft all both side had adopted cannon.

John, you haven't written anything new to me. And nothing
that you've written has rebutted what I said.

The Constitution was written in a time when militias with
muskets were the best insurance against an overseas power
taking control of the territory of the brand new United
States. Those militias needed to be well regulated, or they
themselves could turn the place into 1990s Mogadishu, but in
slow motion, with at least 15 seconds between shots.

We now have millions of fat Rambo wannabees buying guns not
to keep woodchucks out of the garden or put rabbits on the
table. They're choosing weapons with fantasy battles in
mind, outfitting them with magazines that have no practical
use outside a firefight, and pretending that they're going
to use them against anyone who demands their background be
checked. With funding from the industry supplying their
toys, they've gotten the courts to twist away from true
originalist interpretations of the 2nd amendment.

What these Rambos do is not what your family did in New
England. It's not what the Founders imagined in the 1700s.
It's not what happens in other economically advanced
countries. And our gun death stats and mass shooting stats
show the results.


You obviously do not know all that many firearms owners.


I just thought of eight firearm owning friends or relatives in less than
15 seconds. I could think of many more if given time.

Only two of those own AR-style guns. Both of them go to machine gun
shoots at least once per year, to blast things like dead refrigerators
in a field. One of them invited me to come along a couple times. I
turned him down.

The friend that I've shot with the most has a son who fears The Left is
going to come in and take his guns away. My friend says his son is nuts.

(I thought of three more friends with guns in the time I typed that.)
(Nope, four more.)


You need to spend more time watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH6UA_Zs3ho Get with it! The Doomsday Prepper show on Netflix is a fun watch.

In the event of a catastrophe, my strategy is to go on a shooting spree and then eat a lot of **** in cans -- and then die or become one of the zombies or maybe catch a bus to Tulsa. If there is some sort of invading horde, I'll join the horde -- maybe do wills and trusts for the horde or horde procurement contracts. I'm hoping to save up enough for a luxury doomsday bunker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftc6igmfWtk or maybe this lower budget model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4NU9KwpZog

Imagine spending all that money on guns and bunkers and canned food and then being at the shopping mall when the nuclear fire ball rolls through. You wouldn't even have time to shoot anyone before being reduced to ash. What a waste. And then the invading, radioactive hordes take all your stuff.

-- Jay Beattie
Ads
  #82  
Old January 26th 20, 01:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 12:42:05 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 11:12:16 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
In other words - go blow it out your ass. There has NEVER been a reduction in taxes that didn't more than pay for itself. What you like is the idea of holding a gun to the head of the American people and robbing them blind. Too bad it ain't going to happen. Maybe you're another Avenatti for all I know.


It appears that everyone disagrees with you, including the CBO. https://budget.house.gov/publication...-fiscal-future You can skip the political narrative and go right to the report: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/54918


Only you Democrats can possibly believe that the CBO which is what - a part of the Democrat controlled House would say that any benefits are slight and only temporary. I just rode with an investor that plays the market every single day and he says that practically since Trump entered office the market has risen. For a temporary and slight increase that is a very, very long time. Every day they say that the market is going to crash and every day they are wrong. He says that even when the market opens red that it is green before the end of the day. That is as is "green with envy".

I especially love the idea that you cutting your fees wouldn't increase your business enough to pay for the reduced income. For someone that thinks he understands micro-economics you most assuredly do not. People do not run out and hire a lawyer suddenly because the price has gone down. Exactly how are you connecting that with reducing taxes? How in he hell are you getting even close to any sort of connection between taxes and cost for services?
  #83  
Old January 26th 20, 01:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

Small point:
Da two o'yins have missed each other as regards GHWB's
second year and GWB's second term, which are two very
different eras.


That may have appeared that way but the history is clear - H.W. at the Republican Convention made the "Read my lips" statement. For the first 6 years of Clinton there were no changes in the tax cuts of Reagan and (including H..W.'s increases) but the second that Clinton got a Democrat Congress is was tax and spend all over again. Bush II did remarkably well with the budget considering 9/11 but again for his last two years they had a Democrat Congress that spent almost as much in two years as George W. spent in 8.
  #84  
Old January 26th 20, 01:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:30:34 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:

Errr... The Real World? Well, yes. During the 2016 presidential
campaign, Republican candidate Donald Trump promised he would
eliminate the nation's debt in eight years. So far he has increased it
by 5.088 trillion which seems to be a record among recent presidents.

(and the Great Wall is still not finished)


https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-debt-8-years/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...s-really-been/
  #85  
Old January 26th 20, 02:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 15:06:10 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/25/2020 2:59 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2020 8:54 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 13:58:40 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/24/2020 12:57 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:


The founders of this nation, thank God, were very
powerful thinkers. But to you they were dopes and you
know much better.

They were fairly sharp guys. Not gods, not saints, not
infallible, but
sharp guys.

They believed in well-regulated militias. That was
understood quite well
for about 200 years.

They believed in a militia quite simply because that is
all that they
there was in the 1700's and yes, they tossed in the word
"well
regulated", apparently in hope, as none of the state
militias of the
1700's were what one might call "well regulated" and yes,
there is
sufficient history available to realize this. Read up on the
Penobscot Expedition.

It was only in very recent times that the firearms
industry and some gun
nuts got lawyers to convince activist judges that all
precedents and all
previous legal thought should be thrown into a trash can
and shot to
hell with an AR-15 fitted with a bump stock.

Read some history Frank. In the 1700's there was no
standing army in
the colonies and the only armed defense available was the
town/state
militia which by the mid 1700's were being viewed with
some dismay by
the colonial governments. When Washington tried to
mobilize the
Virginia Militia to fight against an Indian attack, in
1755, the
follow was written,
" he experienced all the evils of insubordination among
the troups,
perverseness in the militia, inactivity in the officers,
disregard of
orders, and reluctance in the civil authorities to render
a proper
support."

Thus, I suggest, the term "well regulated" might well have
more then a
cursory meaning.

As for AR-15's I might comment that contrary to popular
belief the
bulk of the "continental Army, and the militia before them
were armed
with smooth bore muskets - the rapid fire weapon of the
era. From all
the records I can find there were in the neighborhood of
1,500
riflemen, in total, in the Colonial army during the war.
However
rifles may have been a factor in the Colonial victory in
the battle of
The Battle of King's Mountain.

I can only assume due to the rapid acceptance of fully
automatic
weapons by various forces in modern times that had a
weapon like the
AR-15 been available in 1775 that both sides would have
adopted it :-)
Aft all both side had adopted cannon.


John, you haven't written anything new to me. And nothing
that you've written has rebutted what I said.

The Constitution was written in a time when militias with
muskets were the best insurance against an overseas power
taking control of the territory of the brand new United
States. Those militias needed to be well regulated, or they
themselves could turn the place into 1990s Mogadishu, but in
slow motion, with at least 15 seconds between shots.

We now have millions of fat Rambo wannabees buying guns not
to keep woodchucks out of the garden or put rabbits on the
table. They're choosing weapons with fantasy battles in
mind, outfitting them with magazines that have no practical
use outside a firefight, and pretending that they're going
to use them against anyone who demands their background be
checked. With funding from the industry supplying their
toys, they've gotten the courts to twist away from true
originalist interpretations of the 2nd amendment.

What these Rambos do is not what your family did in New
England. It's not what the Founders imagined in the 1700s.
It's not what happens in other economically advanced
countries. And our gun death stats and mass shooting stats
show the results.


You obviously do not know all that many firearms owners.


But I do believe that Frank's rants about AR-15 owners are at least
partially true.

In the 1960's I worked in a gunsmith shop for a while, in Shreveport,
La., and yes, semi-automatic weapons with big magazines were
available - the M1 carbine, for one - but I never saw or heard of
anyone trying to convert them to full automatic, or taking buckets
full of ammo to the range and shooting it off brrrrrrat.

Quite the opposite, in fact, the shop was well known for shotgun work
particularly trap and skeet guns and I was hired specifically to
enlarge the business into accurate varmint rifles. What appeared to be
the major desire in shooting, in those days, was to shoot accurately.

I would also add that the shop was on retainer to two pawn shops in
the city to inspect all firearms that they resold to ensure that they
were safe to use and also serviced the city police's weapons, so we
were exposed to a great deal of the gun business in that part of
Louisiana.

My own suspicion is that as the number of veterans in the U.S. is
rapidly declining there are fewer and fewer individuals that have ever
been in a situation where they might have had to fire a weapon in
anger. Or have even been trained to fire a gun in anger.

In 1980 18% of all U.S. adults were serving, or had served, in the
military. In 2014 the number had decreased to 8%. Among U.S. men the
numbers are even larger with 45% serving, or had served, in 1960 to
37% in 1980 to 16% in 2014.
https://tinyurl.com/wkwkshp

Another thing that may be relevant is that in 1950 some 36% of the
U.S. population lived in a rural area where guns might have been far
more common? Growing up in rural New England it seemed to me that many
families had an old shotgun in the corner in case a fox got into the
chicken house.

Today (2010) only 19% of the population reside in a rural area and
thus guns may be a strange and dangerous object to a much larger
percent of the population.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #86  
Old January 26th 20, 02:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 4:11:57 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 12:42:05 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 11:12:16 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
In other words - go blow it out your ass. There has NEVER been a reduction in taxes that didn't more than pay for itself. What you like is the idea of holding a gun to the head of the American people and robbing them blind. Too bad it ain't going to happen. Maybe you're another Avenatti for all I know.


It appears that everyone disagrees with you, including the CBO. https://budget.house.gov/publication...-fiscal-future You can skip the political narrative and go right to the report: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/54918


Only you Democrats can possibly believe that the CBO which is what - a part of the Democrat controlled House would say that any benefits are slight and only temporary. I just rode with an investor that plays the market every single day and he says that practically since Trump entered office the market has risen. For a temporary and slight increase that is a very, very long time. Every day they say that the market is going to crash and every day they are wrong. He says that even when the market opens red that it is green before the end of the day. That is as is "green with envy".

I especially love the idea that you cutting your fees wouldn't increase your business enough to pay for the reduced income. For someone that thinks he understands micro-economics you most assuredly do not.


Spoken like a man who has never run a business. I see more budgets and balance sheets in a month than you do in a lifetime.

People do not run out and hire a lawyer suddenly because the price has gone down. Exactly how are you connecting that with reducing taxes? How in he hell are you getting even close to any sort of connection between taxes and cost for services?

Uh, Tom, that was my point. Simply giving up revenue does not mean you're going to get it back somehow. Reducing the corporate rate did not result in significant capital investment or other significant tax revenue generating activity. It resulted in stock buy-backs and some dividend payments (which are taxable at the individual level). Cutting the corporate rate was a giant gift that created a huge budget hole. It did not trickle down. Read this (which you won't, because you never read anything that undercuts your belief): https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...not-trickling/ or this, https://www.everycrsreport.com/files...d7 5d35f4.pdf


-- Jay Beattie.

  #87  
Old January 26th 20, 03:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 15:59:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/24/2020 8:54 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 13:58:40 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/24/2020 12:57 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:


The founders of this nation, thank God, were very powerful thinkers. But to you they were dopes and you know much better.

They were fairly sharp guys. Not gods, not saints, not infallible, but
sharp guys.

They believed in well-regulated militias. That was understood quite well
for about 200 years.


They believed in a militia quite simply because that is all that they
there was in the 1700's and yes, they tossed in the word "well
regulated", apparently in hope, as none of the state militias of the
1700's were what one might call "well regulated" and yes, there is
sufficient history available to realize this. Read up on the
Penobscot Expedition.

It was only in very recent times that the firearms industry and some gun
nuts got lawyers to convince activist judges that all precedents and all
previous legal thought should be thrown into a trash can and shot to
hell with an AR-15 fitted with a bump stock.


Read some history Frank. In the 1700's there was no standing army in
the colonies and the only armed defense available was the town/state
militia which by the mid 1700's were being viewed with some dismay by
the colonial governments. When Washington tried to mobilize the
Virginia Militia to fight against an Indian attack, in 1755, the
follow was written,
" he experienced all the evils of insubordination among the troups,
perverseness in the militia, inactivity in the officers, disregard of
orders, and reluctance in the civil authorities to render a proper
support."

Thus, I suggest, the term "well regulated" might well have more then a
cursory meaning.

As for AR-15's I might comment that contrary to popular belief the
bulk of the "continental Army, and the militia before them were armed
with smooth bore muskets - the rapid fire weapon of the era. From all
the records I can find there were in the neighborhood of 1,500
riflemen, in total, in the Colonial army during the war. However
rifles may have been a factor in the Colonial victory in the battle of
The Battle of King's Mountain.

I can only assume due to the rapid acceptance of fully automatic
weapons by various forces in modern times that had a weapon like the
AR-15 been available in 1775 that both sides would have adopted it :-)
Aft all both side had adopted cannon.


John, you haven't written anything new to me. And nothing that you've
written has rebutted what I said.

The Constitution was written in a time when militias with muskets were
the best insurance against an overseas power taking control of the
territory of the brand new United States. Those militias needed to be
well regulated, or they themselves could turn the place into 1990s
Mogadishu, but in slow motion, with at least 15 seconds between shots.


Actually a very well trained infantryman could fire 4 shots a minute,
but the standard in the British army was 3 rounds a minute, i.e. 20
seconds per shot, and other armies even slower... but the fact remains
that this was "rapid fire" in those days.


We now have millions of fat Rambo wannabees buying guns not to keep
woodchucks out of the garden or put rabbits on the table. They're
choosing weapons with fantasy battles in mind, outfitting them with
magazines that have no practical use outside a firefight, and pretending
that they're going to use them against anyone who demands their
background be checked. With funding from the industry supplying their
toys, they've gotten the courts to twist away from true originalist
interpretations of the 2nd amendment.

What these Rambos do is not what your family did in New England. It's
not what the Founders imagined in the 1700s. It's not what happens in
other economically advanced countries. And our gun death stats and mass
shooting stats show the results.



Ah but Frank. The original meaning of the 2nd amendment was to ensure
an armed citizenry in order that a militia could be formed.

A bit more history is beneficial:

Connecticut's 1650 law required everyone above the age of 16, with a
few exceptions, to own a good musket or other gun, fit for service....
A previous law, in 1636 law required every A 1636 law required every
militiaman, i.e., male 16 to 50 years of age, to have two pounds of
gunpowder and 20 bullets at home the end of August
next. The militia officer for each settlement was to take view of
their several Arms whether they be serviceable or no.

Rhode Island told its militia officers to go to
every inhabitant [in Portsmouth and] see whether every one of them has
powder and bullets.
Rhode Island also ordered that no man shall go two miles from the
Towne unarmed, either with Gun or Sword; and that none shall come to
any public Meeting without his weapon.There was a fine of five
shillings for failing to be armed
..
New Haven Colony, legislature, ordered every man from 16 to 60 to be
armed with a good gun, a sword, a pound of good powder, 4 fathom [24
feet] of match for a matchlock, 5 or 6 good flints fitted for every
fire lock, and 4 pound of pistol bullets, or 24 bullets fitted for
every gun.

Additionally, In New Haven Colony, the militia (all males from 16 to
60) were called by the beating of a drum to the public worship of
God....\Members of the militia were required to attend with their arms
complete, their guns ready charged,with their match for their
matchlocks and flints ready fitted in their firelocks. (A Mathew
Camfield was fined twelve pence for want of some powder last viewing
day..., and for not bringing his arms to meeting one lecture day, 2s.
6d.)

So, in fact, the 2nd amendment was nothing new, or strange, or unique.
It was simply adding to the new country's set of laws a law that
paralleled existing state or colony laws.

Yes, one might argue that the 2nd amendment is no longer required...
after all an estimated 10,000 ran away rather than serve in the
"militia" last time they tried to draft them... and according to the
Nation's laws it can be changed.

Unfortunately, it requires a vote to change and apparently to date no
one has been able to convince a majority of the citizenry to vote for
the change.

So, you can wave your arms in the air, and rant and rave, to your
heart's content but unless you can convince 2/3rds of the citizenry to
agree with you there isn't going to be any change.

By the way, a number of states have gun laws regarding possession of
"assault weapons". Ohio doesn't seem to be in that group, in fact a
casual reading seems to show that one can carry a rifle or pistol
openly. Right down the main street :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

  #88  
Old January 26th 20, 04:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 09:21:03 +0700, John B. wrote:


A bit more history is beneficial:


So, in fact, the 2nd amendment was nothing new, or strange, or unique.
It was simply adding to the new country's set of laws a law that
paralleled existing state or colony laws.


You've described a few "laws" in a few towns that could just as easily
been laws f oppression and get the fritz out of townn as we do not want
the poor here.


Yes, one might argue that the 2nd amendment is no longer required...
after all an estimated 10,000 ran away rather than serve in the
"militia" last time they tried to draft them... and according to the
Nation's laws it can be changed.

Unfortunately, it requires a vote to change and apparently to date no
one has been able to convince a majority of the citizenry to vote for
the change.

So, you can wave your arms in the air, and rant and rave, to your
heart's content but unless you can convince 2/3rds of the citizenry to
agree with you there isn't going to be any change.


Isn't the issue the number of arms concentrate in the hands of a few
unstable individuals?

If maintaining the militia was the real need, the laws should specify the
arms and ammunition, for a few specific needs, that should be kept, thus
providing reliability by part canabalism and the holding of useful caches
in central storage. instead you have a rolling circus carrying a smorgas
board of iron mongery of dubious reliabiity or usefulness.
  #89  
Old January 26th 20, 04:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 16:11:54 -0800, Tom Kunich wrote:


Only you Democrats can possibly believe that the CBO which is what - a
part of the Democrat controlled House would say that any benefits are
slight and only temporary. I just rode with an investor that plays the
market every single day and he says that practically since Trump entered
office the market has risen.


tThat is of SFA use to the general poplation. Massive bushfire and
massive hail storms is going to see our economy boom, in rebuilting and
repair work. that doesn't help the people that lost a house or a car and
are going to wait for up to 3 months) for the assesor to turn up to look
at the damage.
  #90  
Old January 26th 20, 04:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Bicycle Parts in the News

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 16:38:56 -0800, Tom Kunich wrote:


Tell us what this farm welfare is.


wild guesses, since I don't live there, but;
rebates on fuel for agricultural purposes,
import tarrifs protecting inefficent farms from global competition (The
USA is a biggie on that one),
rebates of all sorts of taxes, licences, registration.
import tarrif relief for agricultural inputs.

 




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