#11
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Fear of Flying
On 2007-01-25 22:20:26 +0000, "chalo colina" said:
32GO wrote: Jeff and I got a bit off the topic in the TdPS. His last post there said: I have no problem piloting a trike in the mid to high 20's but when I go down a hill of any decent size, I'm very quickly in the 30's and the trike does not feel stable. I'm often intrigued at the conversations of 'bent bikers comparing their impressions of long wheel-base, short wheel-base and lowracers, and who feels safest at what speed on which machine. Trikes are probably a bit different in that they require almost nothing in the way of operator skill or training at speeds up to 'casual cruising', and some riders seem to be lulled into forgetting that as they push the limits, trikes begin to demand some of the same skills and heightened attention that it takes to ride a bike fast. Trikes as a rule have a natural "critical speed" that has more to do with vehicle dynamics than it does with the rider's fear and perceptions. I regularly decend hills at speeds in excess of 50mph, the only thing to be wary of is sudden steering or brake inputs although the brake issue is less so on the new 700 and Expedition. -- Three wheels good, two wheels ok www.catrike.co.uk |
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#12
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Fear of Flying
On 25 Jan 2007 14:20:26 -0800, "chalo colina"
wrote: So because 'bent bikes are (generally speaking) worse than upright bikes with regard to stability at speed, 'bent trikes are /more stable/ than upright trikes, and this makes two- and three-wheeled 'bents comparable to each other in their sure-footedness at high speed. I've raced diamond frames and ridden for some time a SWB Vision. I find taking the Vision down a curving downhill more stable than the diamond frames - and I've held my own in a decending pace line under race conditions. So I simply do not agree with your assumption. Yes, Armstrong or Merkx could out descend me - but the same would be true with me on a diamond frame. FWIW, a person that knows how to race an upright trike can make it do wonders in a turn - something I have observed but been unable to duplicate (and had the scars for a while to prove my lack of success - it wasn't as easy as it looked, and it didn't look easy in the first place). Not sure if they would try the same leaning process on a fast downhill though. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
#13
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Fear of Flying
On 26 Jan 2007 00:55:52 -0800, "32GO" wrote:
The front end geometry of a tadpole is pretty much the same as an automobile's, and as far as I know, there's no such thing as a "critical speed". That reminds me of the joke about what the critical speed was for the old Morgan three wheelers and the answer was any speed when the back tire blew out. But I rather doubt YOUR premise about a diamond frame rider making constant adjustments (except perhaps during hands off riding). At speed a DF is rather forgiving and you can actually work against the bike (within reason, like when removing a jacket) for some distance before things become truly dicey. OTOH, the Vision was completely stable when I removed my jacket. Of course, I was stopped and had both feet on the ground before I would attempt it. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
#14
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Fear of Flying
"32GO" wrote in message oups.com... [...] Tadpoles are very stable and simple to ride at low to medium speeds, and their braking ability may be the best available on any 'normal' road vehicle, but at some point, a trikey is exposed to the same real risks as any other cyclist. For me, that transition from carefree fun (in lower case) to gunfighter-eyed, yellow-alert, battle stations, play racer mentality usually comes somewhere between about 30 and 40 MPH. But hey, sometimes even a little rational fear is FUN! (upper case with exclamation point) Wayne is comfortable at those speeds on his tadpole because he rides such a bike exclusively. However, for the rest of us, a top speed of around 20 mph is more reasonable before the handling gets tricky. That is fast enough for any recumbent trike, even a well designed delta like the Kettwiesel. The truth is that tadpoles are not stable at the higher speeds. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
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Fear of Flying
"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS! You have made some interesting observations. One of mine is that back in the days when I rode DF's, I could easily ride without holding onto the handlebars. I have never had a recumbent bike where I could ride without holding on (I owned an Infinity LWB, Vision SWB, and Trek). The Trek, which I thought I would love, was the "twitchiest" steerer. The Infinity, which was the oldest and lowest end of the bikes I've owned was my favorite. No one has ever been able to ride any recumbent hands-off. Thus spake Zarathustra. What the hell was low end about the Infinity? I bought one new and one used. The one I bought new was quite expensive and there was nothing low end about it. I still think for a multiple tube frame recumbent that it is one of the best looking ones ever made. It always reminds me of the very early Avatar. [...] Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#16
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Fear of Flying
On one downhill run I got my Linear LWB up to 82 kph (50 mph). It felt
solid as a rock, and it was only my nerves that gave out. I started having brief thoughts like "hope the front wheel's QR skewer is done up tight enough", and then "what would happen if a tire blew out?". Well, potential road rash at that speed didn't sound like any fun, and I was already over the posted 60kph (40 mph) speed lilmit, so I was happy to stop pedaling and just coast until the road levelled out more. The next time I went down that hill I was happy to stay at only 70 kph. Mark |
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Fear of Flying
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#18
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Fear of Flying
In article , curtis@md-
bicycling.org says... FWIW, a person that knows how to race an upright trike can make it do wonders in a turn - something I have observed but been unable to duplicate (and had the scars for a while to prove my lack of success - it wasn't as easy as it looked, and it didn't look easy in the first place). Not sure if they would try the same leaning process on a fast downhill though. Though to do so like the /serious/ barrow boys requires enough flexibility to be able to get one's head down to knee level while still pedalling. That's me out, then. -- Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ Do not top-post like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning. |
#19
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Fear of Flying
"32GO" wrote in message ups.com... Hey folks - Who says we can't have interesting on-topic discussions here at ARBR? Well, yes, recumbent trikes are your business so of course we would expect that you would show some minimal interest. At least you are proving to me that you can write acceptable prose and not just verse about **** and **** and ass and ****. [...] The biggest single difference that I see between bikes and trikes is that anyone riding a two-wheeler has to constantly make minor steering and/or weight shift corrections to keep the bike upright AT ANY SPEED, and the process of making those continuous compensations becomes almost subconscious for him. The process is made a bit more appropriate to normal human aptitudes by the short-term stability provided by the precession effect of the wheels and the rounded profile of bike tires. Well, good grief, that is the whole fun of riding an upright bike! But on a trike, at low and medium speeds, there is absolutely no need for the rider to do anything but make minor steering corrections. Which is why it is quite dull to ride a trike at low and medium speeds for the average person. When the trike begins going fast enough to make it more of a challenge to control its direction with its sensitive steering, compensating and correcting for stiction, linkage slack and hysteresis, it begins to demand a lot more in the way of attention, precision and good reflexes. [...] In other words, a trike is not stable at speed and does not handle well. It is really only fun to ride a recumbent trike at fairly high speeds at which point it becomes dangerous to do so. The bottom line is that you can't win. Recumbent trikes are for going places in comfort and security at a medium speed at best and they are not for having much fun unless you like to live dangerously. A 2-wheel recumbent does not have any of the difficulties that trikes have. That is the main reason why trikes are so hard to sell in comparison. They look like they are more fun than they turn out to be. At least a 2-wheel recumbent is closer to an upright and it is possible to have some fun on them without getting yourself killed. [...] Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#20
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Fear of Flying
"Buck" wrote in message news:2007012610592850073-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk... [...] I regularly decend [descend] hills at speeds in excess of 50mph, the only thing to be wary of is sudden steering or brake inputs although the brake issue is less so on the new 700 and Expedition. You confounded moron, it is those steering inputs, not sudden but ever so gradual, which make recumbent trikes, especially tadpoles, so dangerous at speed. I hope to God Jeff is not listening to any of this foolishness. He is quite right to trust his instincts in this matter and does not need another bang-up crash to go along with all his other ailments. Besides, why are you lying about your downhill speeds? You must think we were all born yesterday. What a load of bull**** you peddle on a regular basis to this newsgroup. Have you no shame? Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
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