#1
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OT - Obama
Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: "Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: [...] What a laugh the above is! The mass media is liberal to the core. They beat up on Bush for 8 years and now they are having a slobbering love affair with Obama no matter how inept he proves to be. What Ed conveniently ignores is that Obama's policies have been a mixture of neo-con and neo-feudal. Very little liberal, and nothing progressive about them. President Obama's actions are so far from what was promised by candidate Obama, the only honorable course left for him would be to resign. Obama is not a communist like you, but he is still plenty liberal. If he had any guts, he would insist on a public option for health care reform. But that would be against the corporate elite that rule the country. Some corporate elites are against a public option, others are in favor of it. The so-called Blue Dog Democrats do not exist. A Democrat is a Democrat is a Democrat. Obama is a weak-kneed pussy if truth be told. For once, Ed may be right (with the last part). However, he did the right thing about Afghanistan. Democrats are notoriously lax with regard to national security issues, so he had better watch himself as we conservatives are ready to pounce on him if he plays loose with American security. Oh Ed, now you are just being silly. Afghanistan has always been about Central Asian natural gas reserves, not terrorism. Besides, things are going so well: http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/serial-catastrophes-in-afghanistan.html. And the whole "War on Terror" was obviously always about manipulating public opinion, not fighting terrorism. Afghanistan belongs more to the subcontinent than Central Asia. What natural gas would that be? The best thing that could happen that would convince you that the war on terrorism is real is if some of them would show up in your neighborhood and blow your dumb ass sky high! al Qaeda in Iowa blows up a grain elevator! Whoo Hoo! /sarcasm Obama will now have to concentrate on getting the job numbers up or he will be just a one term president. Americans will not stand for high unemployment. The USians that count want high unemployment. Low unemployment gives the proletariat too much power - workers scared of unemployment are more compliant. In addition, high unemployment aids military recruitment to fight wars of imperial conquest. And there are always prisons for those who complain too much. http://www.openleft.com/diary/16774/why-democrats-are-trying-to-commit-electoral-suicide As always, you are so intent on looking behind the scenes that you miss the main scene, which is that of politicians wanting to get reelected to office. That depends on voters, not corporations. Prepare for a big turnover this midterm election if the economy does not pick up. Replace the old overseers with new overseers. If the USian people were informed, 95% of the members of Congress elected in 2010 would be Libertarian or Green. "To the elites, ordinary Americans are pretty much parasites. It's not the bankers, with their multi-trillion dollar bailouts who are the problem, it's old people with their Social Security and Medicare. The elites made it. They are rich and powerful. They believe that their success is due entirely to themselves (even if they inherited the money or position). If you didn't, then that means you don't deserve it." - Ian Welsh The trouble with the above is that the elites only number in a few hundreds of thousands, whereas everyone else numbers in the hundreds of millions. Numbers count more in the end than the wealth of the few. Really Ed? History says differently. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 "The last 35 years may have been a bad time to be an ordinary American, but the elite has seen their wealth and income soar to levels even greater than the gilded age. The rich, in America, have never, ever, been as rich as they are now." - Ian Welsh |
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#2
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OT - Obama
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: [...] The best thing that could happen that would convince you that the war on terrorism is real is if some of them would show up in your neighborhood and blow your dumb ass sky high! al Qaeda in Iowa blows up a grain elevator! Whoo Hoo! /sarcasm The purpose of Islamic terrorism is to sow fear among the populace, not necessarily to blow up anything that matters. How about a Muslim terrorist goes to an Iowa football game, blows himself up and takes several hundred Iowans with him. Think that might bring you to your senses? [...] The trouble with the above is that the elites only number in a few hundreds of thousands, whereas everyone else numbers in the hundreds of millions. Numbers count more in the end than the wealth of the few. Really Ed? History says differently. There is short run history and there is long run history. If and when things get bad enough, you can count on change. I refer you to the Bolshevik revolution in Czarist Russia of 1917, although the classic case for most of the rest of us is the French Revolution of 1789-1799. You must get over your envy of the wealthy. They can choke on their money for all I care as long as I have a modicum of freedom to live my life as I please. I think that is the attitude of most folks. Always remember, the best things in life are free! Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#3
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OT - Obama
Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: [...] The best thing that could happen that would convince you that the war on terrorism is real is if some of them would show up in your neighborhood and blow your dumb ass sky high! al Qaeda in Iowa blows up a grain elevator! Whoo Hoo! /sarcasm The purpose of Islamic terrorism is to sow fear among the populace, not necessarily to blow up anything that matters. "Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs to advance a heretical agenda. How about a Muslim terrorist goes to an Iowa football game, blows himself up and takes several hundred Iowans with him. Think that might bring you to your senses? [...] More likely an Iowa State fan being a suicide bomber at Kinnick Stadium. The trouble with the above is that the elites only number in a few hundreds of thousands, whereas everyone else numbers in the hundreds of millions. Numbers count more in the end than the wealth of the few. Really Ed? History says differently. There is short run history and there is long run history. If and when things get bad enough, you can count on change. I refer you to the Bolshevik revolution in Czarist Russia of 1917, although the classic case for most of the rest of us is the French Revolution of 1789-1799. In the Lenninist revolutions, the aristocracy is merely replaced by another authoritarian class. What Lenin, Mao, et al practiced was not true Communism/Marxism. You must get over your envy of the wealthy. See my other post to disabuse yourself of this false conclusion. They can choke on their money for all I care as long as I have a modicum of freedom to live my life as I please. I think that is the attitude of most folks. Always remember, the best things in life are free! Wealth is freedom in US society. Lack of wealth is servitude to the rich. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 "To the elites, ordinary Americans are pretty much parasites. It's not the bankers, with their multi-trillion dollar bailouts who are the problem, it's old people with their Social Security and Medicare. The elites made it. They are rich and powerful. They believe that their success is due entirely to themselves (even if they inherited the money or position). If you didn't, then that means you don't deserve it." - Ian Welsh |
#4
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OT - Obama
-snip-
Tom Sherman °_° wrote: "Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs to advance a heretical agenda. "the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws near, the final war between the Muslims and the Jews will take place. The Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the Jews. " 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be patient. All the trees and all the stones will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him ...' " Koran: 2:10 Disbelievers are diseased. 2:99 Disbelievers are evil people. 2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind. 3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers. 3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51 Jews and Christians are losers. 5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine. 5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people. 5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 6:106 Stay away from disbelievers. 8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. ** 9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them. ** 9:28 Disbelievers are unclean. 9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#5
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OT - Obama
In article ,
AMuzi wrote: -snip- Tom Sherman °_° wrote: "Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs to advance a heretical agenda. "the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws near, the final war between the Muslims and the Jews will take place. The Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the Jews. " 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be patient. All the trees and all the stones will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him ...' " Koran: 2:10 Disbelievers are diseased. 2:99 Disbelievers are evil people. 2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind. 3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers. 3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51 Jews and Christians are losers. 5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine. 5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people. 5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 6:106 Stay away from disbelievers. 8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. ** 9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them. ** 9:28 Disbelievers are unclean. 9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them. "We're good, everybody else is bad." That's an underlying belief in almost all religions and most "isms." Maybe not Buddhism. -- "I wear the cheese, it does not wear me." |
#6
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Church of RANS
Tim McNamara wrote:
"We're good, everybody else is bad." That's an underlying belief in almost all religions and most "isms." Maybe not Buddhism. That is why I belong to the Church of RANS. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 |
#7
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OT - Obama
On Jan 6, 8:57*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , *AMuzi wrote: -snip- Tom Sherman _ wrote: * "Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs to advance a heretical agenda. "the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws near, the final war between the Muslims and the Jews will take place. The Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the Jews. " 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be patient. All the trees and all the stones will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him ...' *" Koran: 2:10 Disbelievers are diseased. 2:99 Disbelievers are evil people. 2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind. 3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers. 3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51 Jews and Christians are losers. 5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine. 5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people. 5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 6:106 Stay away from disbelievers. 8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. ** 9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them. ** 9:28 Disbelievers are unclean. 9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them. "We're good, everybody else is bad." *That's an underlying belief in almost all religions and most "isms." *Maybe not Buddhism. -- "I wear the cheese, it does not wear me."- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents on ecumenism and religious feedom, for official Catholic teaching on those subjects. Regarding Islam, Andrew rightly went to the source and laid out many citations to the Koran, to help focus the question: To what extent do the foundational documents of Islam mandate the agenda of today's radical Jahadists?? Or can there be a kinder, gentler Islam?? I dusted off my Koran and had a look at them, mindful that I can react only to the language; I'm a stranger to the tradition. As far as I can tell, the case is not hopeless for the ultimate intra-Muslim condemnation of the radical Jihadists. Putting the best light on their side of the case, I would argue: 1. The Chapter 2 cites only address what God will do to the unbeliever. No mandate there for the faithful to play the role of the avenging angel. 2. The Chapter 3 and 5 cites, 4.101, 4.144 and 6.106 are decidedly unecumenical, but mandate separation, not violence. Still, there are lots of cites, and it's difficult to reconcile them with the achievement of a modern diverse society that recognizes, as the Koran says elsewhere [2.256] that there can [and should] be no compulsion in matters of religion. They are troubling. 3. It's difficult to see much hope for acceptable relationships in Ch. 9. The best I can come up with is that they are extravagant exaggerations along the lines of Christ's sermon on the mount (e.g. "if thy right eye is an occasion of sin, cut it out"), designed to make a different point. Or perhaps that they are timebound to Mohammed's day, such as St. Paul's "mandate" in I Cor that women must cover their heads. Or maybe that they are overridden by other verses demanding tolerance, e.g 2.256. After all, the Christian bible has a goodly number of seemingly conflicting statements that have to be reconciled with each other. I want to believe that this civil war within Islam will end well for everyone. I especially want to believe it because the alternative is so unattractive. But I'm not expecting the day to come in my lifetime, when I can bicycle between Mecca and Medina to worship Christ. |
#8
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OT - Obama
Ron Wallenfang wrote:
[...] Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents[...] Are these online? It takes 6 monks and a mule to carry the hard copy around. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 |
#9
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OT - Obama
On Jan 6, 11:40*pm, Tom Sherman °_°
wrote: Ron Wallenfang wrote: [...] Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents[...] Are these online? It takes 6 monks and a mule to carry the hard copy around. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 It's on www.ewtn.com |
#10
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OT - Obama
On Jan 7, 12:19*am, Ron Wallenfang wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:40*pm, Tom Sherman °_° wrote: Ron Wallenfang wrote: [...] Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents[...] Are these online? It takes 6 monks and a mule to carry the hard copy around. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 *It's onwww.ewtn.com Let's try more detail: www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V2ALL.HTM - Cached |
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