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OT - Obama



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 6th 10, 03:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]
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Posts: 2,312
Default OT - Obama

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
What a laugh the above is! The mass media is liberal to the core. They
beat up on Bush for 8 years and now they are having a slobbering love
affair with Obama no matter how inept he proves to be.

What Ed conveniently ignores is that Obama's policies have been a
mixture of neo-con and neo-feudal. Very little liberal, and nothing
progressive about them. President Obama's actions are so far from what
was promised by candidate Obama, the only honorable course left for him
would be to resign.
Obama is not a communist like you, but he is still plenty liberal. If he
had any guts, he would insist on a public option for health care reform.

But that would be against the corporate elite that rule the country.


Some corporate elites are against a public option, others are in favor of
it. The so-called Blue Dog Democrats do not exist. A Democrat is a Democrat
is a Democrat. Obama is a weak-kneed pussy if truth be told.

For once, Ed may be right (with the last part).

However, he did the right thing about Afghanistan. Democrats are
notoriously lax with regard to national security issues, so he had better
watch himself as we conservatives are ready to pounce on him if he plays
loose with American security.

Oh Ed, now you are just being silly. Afghanistan has always been about
Central Asian natural gas reserves, not terrorism. Besides, things are
going so well:
http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/serial-catastrophes-in-afghanistan.html.
And the whole "War on Terror" was obviously always about manipulating
public opinion, not fighting terrorism.


Afghanistan belongs more to the subcontinent than Central Asia. What natural
gas would that be? The best thing that could happen that would convince you
that the war on terrorism is real is if some of them would show up in your
neighborhood and blow your dumb ass sky high!

al Qaeda in Iowa blows up a grain elevator! Whoo Hoo! /sarcasm

Obama will now have to concentrate on getting the job numbers up or he
will be just a one term president.
Americans will not stand for high unemployment.

The USians that count want high unemployment. Low unemployment gives the
proletariat too much power - workers scared of unemployment are more
compliant. In addition, high unemployment aids military recruitment to
fight wars of imperial conquest. And there are always prisons for those
who complain too much.
http://www.openleft.com/diary/16774/why-democrats-are-trying-to-commit-electoral-suicide


As always, you are so intent on looking behind the scenes that you miss the
main scene, which is that of politicians wanting to get reelected to office.
That depends on voters, not corporations. Prepare for a big turnover this
midterm election if the economy does not pick up.

Replace the old overseers with new overseers.

If the USian people were informed, 95% of the members of Congress
elected in 2010 would be Libertarian or Green.

"To the elites, ordinary Americans are pretty much parasites.
It's not the bankers, with their multi-trillion dollar bailouts
who are the problem, it's old people with their Social Security
and Medicare. The elites made it. They are rich and powerful.
They believe that their success is due entirely to themselves
(even if they inherited the money or position). If you didn't,
then that means you don't deserve it." - Ian Welsh


The trouble with the above is that the elites only number in a few hundreds
of thousands, whereas everyone else numbers in the hundreds of millions.
Numbers count more in the end than the wealth of the few.

Really Ed? History says differently.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007

"The last 35 years may have been a bad time to be an ordinary
American, but the elite has seen their wealth and income soar
to levels even greater than the gilded age. The rich, in
America, have never, ever, been as rich as they are now."
- Ian Welsh
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  #2  
Old January 6th 10, 10:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default OT - Obama


"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
The best thing that could happen that would convince you that the war on
terrorism is real is if some of them would show up in your neighborhood
and blow your dumb ass sky high!

al Qaeda in Iowa blows up a grain elevator! Whoo Hoo! /sarcasm


The purpose of Islamic terrorism is to sow fear among the populace, not
necessarily to blow up anything that matters. How about a Muslim terrorist
goes to an Iowa football game, blows himself up and takes several hundred
Iowans with him. Think that might bring you to your senses?
[...]

The trouble with the above is that the elites only number in a few
hundreds of thousands, whereas everyone else numbers in the hundreds of
millions. Numbers count more in the end than the wealth of the few.

Really Ed? History says differently.


There is short run history and there is long run history. If and when things
get bad enough, you can count on change. I refer you to the Bolshevik
revolution in Czarist Russia of 1917, although the classic case for most of
the rest of us is the French Revolution of 1789-1799.

You must get over your envy of the wealthy. They can choke on their money
for all I care as long as I have a modicum of freedom to live my life as I
please. I think that is the attitude of most folks. Always remember, the
best things in life are free!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #3  
Old January 7th 10, 02:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,312
Default OT - Obama

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
The best thing that could happen that would convince you that the war on
terrorism is real is if some of them would show up in your neighborhood
and blow your dumb ass sky high!

al Qaeda in Iowa blows up a grain elevator! Whoo Hoo! /sarcasm


The purpose of Islamic terrorism is to sow fear among the populace, not
necessarily to blow up anything that matters.


"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs
to advance a heretical agenda.

How about a Muslim terrorist
goes to an Iowa football game, blows himself up and takes several hundred
Iowans with him. Think that might bring you to your senses?
[...]

More likely an Iowa State fan being a suicide bomber at Kinnick Stadium.

The trouble with the above is that the elites only number in a few
hundreds of thousands, whereas everyone else numbers in the hundreds of
millions. Numbers count more in the end than the wealth of the few.

Really Ed? History says differently.


There is short run history and there is long run history. If and when things
get bad enough, you can count on change. I refer you to the Bolshevik
revolution in Czarist Russia of 1917, although the classic case for most of
the rest of us is the French Revolution of 1789-1799.

In the Lenninist revolutions, the aristocracy is merely replaced by
another authoritarian class. What Lenin, Mao, et al practiced was not
true Communism/Marxism.

You must get over your envy of the wealthy.


See my other post to disabuse yourself of this false conclusion.

They can choke on their money
for all I care as long as I have a modicum of freedom to live my life as I
please. I think that is the attitude of most folks. Always remember, the
best things in life are free!

Wealth is freedom in US society. Lack of wealth is servitude to the rich.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007

"To the elites, ordinary Americans are pretty much parasites.
It's not the bankers, with their multi-trillion dollar bailouts
who are the problem, it's old people with their Social Security
and Medicare. The elites made it. They are rich and powerful.
They believe that their success is due entirely to themselves
(even if they inherited the money or position). If you didn't,
then that means you don't deserve it." - Ian Welsh
  #4  
Old January 7th 10, 02:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default OT - Obama

-snip-
Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not

condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs
to advance a heretical agenda.


"the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws
near, the final war between the Muslims and the Jews will
take place. The Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the
Jews.

" 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the
Jews and kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be
patient. All the trees and all the stones will say: 'Oh
Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come
and kill him ...' "

Koran:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their
friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you
and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers
wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do,
then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as
guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
**
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
**
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights
against them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #5  
Old January 7th 10, 03:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default OT - Obama

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

-snip-
Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not

condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs
to advance a heretical agenda.


"the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws
near, the final war between the Muslims and the Jews will
take place. The Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the
Jews.

" 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the
Jews and kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be
patient. All the trees and all the stones will say: 'Oh
Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come
and kill him ...' "

Koran:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their
friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you
and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers
wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do,
then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as
guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
**
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
**
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights
against them.


"We're good, everybody else is bad." That's an underlying belief in
almost all religions and most "isms." Maybe not Buddhism.

--
"I wear the cheese, it does not wear me."
  #6  
Old January 7th 10, 04:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,312
Default Church of RANS

Tim McNamara wrote:

"We're good, everybody else is bad." That's an underlying belief in
almost all religions and most "isms." Maybe not Buddhism.

That is why I belong to the Church of RANS.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
  #7  
Old January 7th 10, 05:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Ron Wallenfang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 414
Default OT - Obama

On Jan 6, 8:57*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,





*AMuzi wrote:
-snip-
Tom Sherman _ wrote:
* "Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not
condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs
to advance a heretical agenda.


"the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws
near, the final war between the Muslims and the Jews will
take place. The Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the
Jews.


" 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the
Jews and kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be
patient. All the trees and all the stones will say: 'Oh
Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come
and kill him ...' *"


Koran:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their
friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you
and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers
wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do,
then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as
guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
**
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
**
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights
against them.


"We're good, everybody else is bad." *That's an underlying belief in
almost all religions and most "isms." *Maybe not Buddhism.

--
"I wear the cheese, it does not wear me."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may
I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents on ecumenism and
religious feedom, for official Catholic teaching on those subjects.

Regarding Islam, Andrew rightly went to the source and laid out many
citations to the Koran, to help focus the question: To what extent do
the foundational documents of Islam mandate the agenda of today's
radical Jahadists?? Or can there be a kinder, gentler Islam??

I dusted off my Koran and had a look at them, mindful that I can react
only to the language; I'm a stranger to the tradition. As far as I
can tell, the case is not hopeless for the ultimate intra-Muslim
condemnation of the radical Jihadists. Putting the best light on
their side of the case, I would argue:

1. The Chapter 2 cites only address what God will do to the
unbeliever. No mandate there for the faithful to play the role of the
avenging angel.

2. The Chapter 3 and 5 cites, 4.101, 4.144 and 6.106 are decidedly
unecumenical, but mandate separation, not violence. Still, there are
lots of cites, and it's difficult to reconcile them with the
achievement of a modern diverse society that recognizes, as the Koran
says elsewhere [2.256] that there can [and should] be no compulsion in
matters of religion. They are troubling.

3. It's difficult to see much hope for acceptable relationships in Ch.
9. The best I can come up with is that they are extravagant
exaggerations along the lines of Christ's sermon on the mount (e.g.
"if thy right eye is an occasion of sin, cut it out"), designed to
make a different point. Or perhaps that they are timebound to
Mohammed's day, such as St. Paul's "mandate" in I Cor that women must
cover their heads. Or maybe that they are overridden by other verses
demanding tolerance, e.g 2.256. After all, the Christian bible has a
goodly number of seemingly conflicting statements that have to be
reconciled with each other.

I want to believe that this civil war within Islam will end well for
everyone. I especially want to believe it because the alternative is
so unattractive. But I'm not expecting the day to come in my
lifetime, when I can bicycle between Mecca and Medina to worship
Christ.
  #8  
Old January 7th 10, 06:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,312
Default OT - Obama

Ron Wallenfang wrote:
[...]
Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may
I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents[...]


Are these online? It takes 6 monks and a mule to carry the hard copy around.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
  #9  
Old January 7th 10, 07:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Ron Wallenfang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 414
Default OT - Obama

On Jan 6, 11:40*pm, Tom Sherman °_°
wrote:
Ron Wallenfang wrote:
[...]
Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may
I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents[...]


Are these online? It takes 6 monks and a mule to carry the hard copy around.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007


It's on www.ewtn.com
  #10  
Old January 7th 10, 07:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Ron Wallenfang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 414
Default OT - Obama

On Jan 7, 12:19*am, Ron Wallenfang wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:40*pm, Tom Sherman °_°

wrote:
Ron Wallenfang wrote:
[...]
Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may
I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents[...]


Are these online? It takes 6 monks and a mule to carry the hard copy around.


--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007


*It's onwww.ewtn.com


Let's try more detail: www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V2ALL.HTM -
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