OT - Obama

On Jan 6, 7:01*pm, Tom Sherman °_°
wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

"We're good, everybody else is bad." *That's an underlying belief in
almost all religions and most "isms." *Maybe not Buddhism.

That is why I belong to the Church of RANS.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007

I believe in the Church of Common Sense, thus I'm the Tibetan Monkey.

"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
The best thing that could happen that would convince you that the war
on terrorism is real is if some of them would show up in your
neighborhood and blow your dumb ass sky high!

al Qaeda in Iowa blows up a grain elevator! Whoo Hoo! /sarcasm

The purpose of Islamic terrorism is to sow fear among the populace, not
necessarily to blow up anything that matters.

"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs to
advance a heretical agenda.

Islam actually does condone terrorism. In fact, it is a religion of war, not
peace. Anyone but me ever notice how silent the so-called Muslim majority is
about Muslims killing Christians?

How about a Muslim terrorist goes to an Iowa football game, blows himself
up and takes several hundred Iowans with him. Think that might bring you
to your senses?
[...]

More likely an Iowa State fan being a suicide bomber at Kinnick Stadium.


You cannot compare an individual killer with a group dedicated to killing
another group. It is apples and oranges.

The trouble with the above is that the elites only number in a few
hundreds of thousands, whereas everyone else numbers in the hundreds of
millions. Numbers count more in the end than the wealth of the few.

Really Ed? History says differently.

There is short run history and there is long run history. If and when
things get bad enough, you can count on change. I refer you to the
Bolshevik revolution in Czarist Russia of 1917, although the classic case
for most of the rest of us is the French Revolution of 1789-1799.

In the Lenninist revolutions, the aristocracy is merely replaced by
another authoritarian class. What Lenin, Mao, et al practiced was not true
Communism/Marxism.

You are quite wrong about that. It was the most serious attempt ever in the
history of mankind to have the proletariat rule. Too bad for you that they
turned out to be nothing but thugs and killers. But that is the proletariat
for you. Union leaders mostly fall into this type also - thugs and killers.

You must get over your envy of the wealthy.

See my other post to disabuse yourself of this false conclusion.

You should know by now that I never go to any other posts. Each and every
post must be complete in and of itself.

They can choke on their money for all I care as long as I have a modicum
of freedom to live my life as I please. I think that is the attitude of
most folks. Always remember, the best things in life are free!

Wealth is freedom in US society. Lack of wealth is servitude to the rich.

You do need enough income so that you are not constantly thinking about it
all the time. But that is an easy threshold to meet. It is not the rich that
is the source of our troubles, but rather ourselves.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

AMuzi wrote:
-snip-
Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false
beliefs to advance a heretical agenda.

"the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws near, the final
war between the Muslims and the Jews will take place. The Prophet said
that the Muslims would kill the Jews.

" 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and kill
them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be patient. All the trees and all
the stones will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew
behind me, come and kill him ...' "

Koran:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in
preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to
ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find
them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah
will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
**
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
**
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them.


I'm disappointed that you would cut & paste such propaganda from some
hate-mongering source without vetting it.

That's low even by the standards of this group.

"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Tim McNamara wrote:

"We're good, everybody else is bad." That's an underlying belief in
almost all religions and most "isms." Maybe not Buddhism.

Tim McNamara could not sum up his own ass!

That is why I belong to the Church of RANS.

Mr. Sherman, instead of resorting to idiotic quips, needed to answer the
post of AMuzi. But Mr. Sherman is always out to lunch when challenged. It is
ever the hallmark of a coward.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Jan 6, 9:01*pm, * Still Just Me *
wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:53:17 -0800 (PST), Ron Wallenfang

wrote:
But I'm not expecting the day to come in my
lifetime, when I can bicycle between Mecca and Medina to worship
Christ.

You'll have to wait for the third crusade, when the knights make
pilgrimage through the Holy Lands safe again. I say we deploy the New
Templars at Tyre, and work from there.

We just launch wars to take back the oil from the infidels. But they
are welcome to work with us.

On Jan 7, 7:35*am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:

Islam actually does condone terrorism. In fact, it is a religion of war, not
peace. Anyone but me ever notice how silent the so-called Muslim majority is
about Muslims killing Christians?

It may be that they are a religion of war and we are a religion of
business.

"Peter Cole" wrote in message
...
AMuzi wrote:
-snip-
Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs
to advance a heretical agenda.

"the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws near, the final
war between the Muslims and the Jews will take place. The Prophet said
that the Muslims would kill the Jews.

" 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and kill
them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be patient. All the trees and all
the stones will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew
behind me, come and kill him ...' "

Koran:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in
preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to
ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find
them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah
will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
**
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
**
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them.


I'm disappointed that you would cut & paste such propaganda from some
hate-mongering source without vetting it.

That's low even by the standards of this group.

Nonsense! Both AMuzi and I have read the complete Koran in the original
Arabic. Only Mr. Sherman spouts off without ever knowing what he is talking
about.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Tim McNamara wrote:
"We're good, everybody else is bad." That's an underlying belief in
almost all religions and most "isms." Maybe not Buddhism.

Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
That is why I belong to the Church of RANS.

Oh yeah?
The Flying Spaghetti Monster thinks you are a heretic!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ron Wallenfang wrote:
On Jan 6, 8:57 pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,





AMuzi wrote:
-snip-
Tom Sherman _ wrote:
"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not
condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false beliefs
to advance a heretical agenda.
"the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws
near, the final war between the Muslims and the Jews will
take place. The Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the
Jews.
" 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the
Jews and kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be
patient. All the trees and all the stones will say: 'Oh
Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come
and kill him ...' "
Koran:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their
friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you
and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers
wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do,
then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as
guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
**
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
**
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights
against them.
"We're good, everybody else is bad." That's an underlying belief in
almost all religions and most "isms." Maybe not Buddhism.

--
"I wear the cheese, it does not wear me."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Regarding the "We're good, everybody else is bad" generalization, may
I commend to your attention the Vatican 2 documents on ecumenism and
religious feedom, for official Catholic teaching on those subjects.

Regarding Islam, Andrew rightly went to the source and laid out many
citations to the Koran, to help focus the question: To what extent do
the foundational documents of Islam mandate the agenda of today's
radical Jahadists?? Or can there be a kinder, gentler Islam??

I dusted off my Koran and had a look at them, mindful that I can react
only to the language; I'm a stranger to the tradition. As far as I
can tell, the case is not hopeless for the ultimate intra-Muslim
condemnation of the radical Jihadists. Putting the best light on
their side of the case, I would argue:

1. The Chapter 2 cites only address what God will do to the
unbeliever. No mandate there for the faithful to play the role of the
avenging angel.

2. The Chapter 3 and 5 cites, 4.101, 4.144 and 6.106 are decidedly
unecumenical, but mandate separation, not violence. Still, there are
lots of cites, and it's difficult to reconcile them with the
achievement of a modern diverse society that recognizes, as the Koran
says elsewhere [2.256] that there can [and should] be no compulsion in
matters of religion. They are troubling.

3. It's difficult to see much hope for acceptable relationships in Ch.
9. The best I can come up with is that they are extravagant
exaggerations along the lines of Christ's sermon on the mount (e.g.
"if thy right eye is an occasion of sin, cut it out"), designed to
make a different point. Or perhaps that they are timebound to
Mohammed's day, such as St. Paul's "mandate" in I Cor that women must
cover their heads. Or maybe that they are overridden by other verses
demanding tolerance, e.g 2.256. After all, the Christian bible has a
goodly number of seemingly conflicting statements that have to be
reconciled with each other.

I want to believe that this civil war within Islam will end well for
everyone. I especially want to believe it because the alternative is
so unattractive. But I'm not expecting the day to come in my
lifetime, when I can bicycle between Mecca and Medina to worship
Christ.

Here you go:
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qw...*listing*title


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Peter Cole wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
-snip-
Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
"Islamic terrorism" is an oxymoron, since Islam does not condone
terrorism. Like all religions, there are those who preach false
beliefs to advance a heretical agenda.

"the Prophet Muhammad said that when Judgment Day draws near, the
final war between the Muslims and the Jews will take place. The
Prophet said that the Muslims would kill the Jews.

" 'Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and
kill them.' The Muslims will kill the Jews. Be patient. All the trees
and all the stones will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is
a Jew behind me, come and kill him ...' "

Koran:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in
preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to
ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you
find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah
will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
**
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
**
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them.


I'm disappointed that you would cut & paste such propaganda from some
hate-mongering source without vetting it.

That's low even by the standards of this group.

Sir, do you mean to insult the koran's actual text?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971