Safety warning.

Getting back on topic: is Western plastic really all
that much better than Chinese plastic? I mean, really?
Is there a Rolls Royce of plastic?

=v= No, not really. Lexan(R) was at one point considered the
"Rolls Royce of plastic," at least for water bottles, but more
recent research uncovered health problems with it. As for the
other plastics, again, here's that website:

http://www.ecologycenter.org/ptf/

That's a joint project of Greenpeace and the Ecology Center.
They developed a matrix of plastics and their known problems.

=v= For my own part, I'd probably have a stainless steel Kleen
Kanteen if I didn't already have a thrift-shop brass bottle
that matches my bike. I have a squeezable bottle (LDPE) with
a filter in the cap, and another insulated one for my visits
to cold places, but of course both of these have problems.

Having a $30 water bottle means you'd have to pack it with
you when you parked your bike. Carrying water bottles and
sippy cups looks moronic when people are walking down the
street, IMO.

=v= Well, they obviate the use of disposable cups. Personally
I think nothing's more moronic-looking than a disposable paper
cup with a disposable paper insulated cupholder and a plastic
cap on top.

=v= Also, there's a West Coast outdoors aesthetic where that
fits in just fine. Unfortunately it's largely been expressed
through Lexan(R) canteens, GoreTex(R)-treated Cordura(R) jackets
rated for a zillion degrees below zero, and, worst case, SUVs
with Sierra Club bumper stickers. A much-improved "feral"
version utilizes nondisposable stainless steel containers (and
utensils), hempen fibers, dreadlocks, and pocket-mulching.
_Jym_

ObFullDisclosu I was on the Ecology Center's board of
directors when the Plastics Task Force got underway. Also,
I confess that I think ferals with dreadlocks are mighty hot.

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:11:05 -0700, Zoot Katz
wrote:

[water bottles]

I've a couple of aluminium ones too. A Zefal with a good spout design

If it's this one you mean:

http://www.decathlon.fr/FR/700ml-alu-bouchon-visse-17137170/

I have a couple of them, and a 6 euros a piece, they're excellent
value for money.

"Paul O" wrote: (clip)!(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
More to the point.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:56:02 +0200, Andrew Price
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:11:05 -0700, Zoot Katz
wrote:

[water bottles]

I've a couple of aluminium ones too. A Zefal with a good spout design

If it's this one you mean:

http://www.decathlon.fr/FR/700ml-alu-bouchon-visse-17137170/

I have a couple of them, and a 6 euros a piece, they're excellent
value for money.

I don't know whether it's coincidence or just bad luck but I think
that bottle is responsible for breaking two aluminium bottle cages.
Its being rigid and slightly oversize might have contributed to their
failure. Though both, different brands they broke at the weld joining
the rod ends on the mounting plate.

The spout mechanism and vent works perfectly. The inside coating of
mine is still unstained and intact though I wonder how it would hold
up if the bottle got dented.
--
zk

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:20:24 -0700, Jym Dyer wrote:
\
=v= For my own part, I'd probably have a stainless steel Kleen
Kanteen if I didn't already have a thrift-shop brass bottle
that matches my bike. I have a squeezable bottle (LDPE) with
a filter in the cap, and another insulated one for my visits
to cold places, but of course both of these have problems.

A found plastic lined SS handle-less sippy mug, with the lining
removed and lightly shimmed with neoprene. discretely holds a half
litter of Holsten in a bottle cage. The top lip of the can is held
sipping distance above the edge of the holder. It's basically a
hard-shell brown bag that passes for a coffee mug.

Having a $30 water bottle means you'd have to pack it with
you when you parked your bike. Carrying water bottles and
sippy cups looks moronic when people are walking down the
street, IMO.

=v= Well, they obviate the use of disposable cups. Personally
I think nothing's more moronic-looking than a disposable paper
cup with a disposable paper insulated cupholder and a plastic
cap on top.

One of my latest finds was a SS Starbucks branded mug. Problem is
that it has a handle. (and a logo) The handle appears to be removable
and I'm guessing its mounting studs can be ground flush. The design
of the plastic sippy lid makes it easily cleaned.

=v= Also, there's a West Coast outdoors aesthetic where that
fits in just fine. Unfortunately it's largely been expressed
through Lexan(R) canteens, GoreTex(R)-treated Cordura(R) jackets
rated for a zillion degrees below zero, and, worst case, SUVs
with Sierra Club bumper stickers. A much-improved "feral"
version utilizes nondisposable stainless steel containers (and
utensils), hempen fibers, dreadlocks, and pocket-mulching.

Those hot looking dreaded freegan moms need all that patchouli to
keep from stinking like garbage.

Walking around with any kind of ready beverage in hand is so
declassé. I try to avoid being photographed holding a drink.

Coaster brakes are best for drinking while riding. You can even have
a hand free for signalling.
--
zk

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:41:34 -0700, Zoot Katz
wrote:

If it's this one you mean:

http://www.decathlon.fr/FR/700ml-alu-bouchon-visse-17137170/

I have a couple of them, and a 6 euros a piece, they're excellent
value for money.

I don't know whether it's coincidence or just bad luck but I think
that bottle is responsible for breaking two aluminium bottle cages.
Its being rigid and slightly oversize might have contributed to their
failure. Though both, different brands they broke at the weld joining
the rod ends on the mounting plate.

Almost certainly not a coincidence. As you noted, the bottles are
slightly larger than average size, and are meant to be used in
conjunction with a Zéfal cage like one of these:

http://www.zefal.com/AAA/page.php?nom=produits&sousFamille=2007porteBidonAl u&langue=an

which is what I use, and they fit perfectly. But I experienced your
problem in reverse (although with not such catastrophic consequences)
when I tried to carry an old Sigg bottle I had in one of the Zéfal
cages - the cage was too large and the Sigg bottle rattled abominably.

http://www.decathlon.fr/FR/700ml-alu...isse-17137170/

I have a couple of them, and a 6 euros a piece, they're
excellent value for money.
I don't know whether it's coincidence or just bad luck but I
think that bottle is responsible for breaking two aluminium
bottle cages.

=v= Yeah, I switched from metal bottle cages for plastic bottles
to plastic bottle cages for metal bottles.

The spout mechanism and vent works perfectly. The inside
coating of mine is still unstained and intact though I wonder
how it would hold up if the bottle got dented.

=v= Mine got dented, the inner enamel got chipped, and my water
was exposed to aluminum. :-( Alzheimer's ensues.
_Jym_

Personally I think nothing's more moronic-looking than
a disposable paper cup with a disposable paper insulated
cupholder and a plastic cap on top.

=v= I just discovered yesterday that *$$ has an additional
accoutrement to go with all of the above: a coffee-stirrer
that doubles as a stopper for the plastic sippy lid, keeping
the heat in. I've never quite figured out the whole "hands
of kleenex, lips of iron" anatomy implied by this ensemble.

One of my latest finds was a SS Starbucks branded mug.
Problem is that it has a handle. (and a logo)

=v= Probably discarded to make way for the new *$$ schwag,
featuring the "retro" logo, which shows more of the mermaid.
Actually, they cleaned her up a little, removing her nipples
and making her freegan dreads a bit more tidy:

http://www.deadprogrammer.com/starbucks-logo-mermaid

Even so, the denippled sigh-reen has rankled the ire of some
Xian nutcases, on account of her spread legs:

http://gawker.com/388550/slutty-star...ffends-crazies

_Jym_