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#11
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Power Meter
Your riding position changes remarkably little if you are riding hard.
Ah, thanks for telling me. I guess I'm doing something wrong then, as I'm riding in different positions when going uphill compared to flat/downhill. |
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#12
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Power Meter
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 8:53:49 AM UTC-8, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Your riding position changes remarkably little if you are riding hard. Ah, thanks for telling me. I guess I'm doing something wrong then, as I'm riding in different positions when going uphill compared to flat/downhill. But the much lower speed reduces the aerodynamic drag which is logarithmic rather than linear. Again - can you explain why rear hub stress gauges do not find a remarkable difference between power output and speed compared to grade? Are you a Pro who can climb 12% at 15 mph? |
#13
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Power Meter
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:49:08 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: There are still a number of unanswered questions, which is why they don't have my money yet. Like all new product development projects, they're behind schedule, and they haven't provided enough real world test data to keep all the backers happy. However, the price point (160 Euro each, 260 Euro for a pair) is lower than any other direct measuring power meter out there. Sorry, but I have no delivery information or current interest in their business practices. I'm interested in the technology. As Jay has so eloquently noted, they're a Kickstarter startup and have a high probability of failings. A good clue is that they collected 10 times the money that they were trying to attract, which means they either don't understand the market, or have grossly underpriced their product. I suspect the latter. Methinks it maketh more sense to put the sensors in the riders shoes, rather than in the pedals. It would be easier to build, would indicate the power delivered by the riders feet instead of the pedals, and could be used for other power measurements, such as running. One would only need one power meter sensor pair for the shoes, not one for each bicycle. Something like this: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/lucks-cycling-power-meter-shoe.html Well, maybe not. No sign of a power meter on their web pile: https://luck-bike.es/en/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#14
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Power Meter
Are you a Pro who can climb 12% at 15 mph?
Which professional cyclist can climb 12% at 24 km/h? Do you mean for 1 minute? That seems to require about 10 W/kg Or maybe this calculator is wrong: BikePower-0.33: grade of hill = 12.0% headwind = 0.0 kph rolling friction coeff = 0.0047 BM rate = 1.40 W/kg air resistance coeff = (0.2670, 0) efficiency: transmission = 98.0% human = 24.9% What's the required W/kg based on your calculations (and which input data do you use)? -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers. |
#15
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Power Meter
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:49:08 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: There are still a number of unanswered questions, which is why they don't have my money yet. Like all new product development projects, they're behind schedule, and they haven't provided enough real world test data to keep all the backers happy. However, the price point (160 Euro each, 260 Euro for a pair) is lower than any other direct measuring power meter out there. Sorry, but I have no delivery information or current interest in their business practices. I'm interested in the technology. As Jay has so eloquently noted, they're a Kickstarter startup and have a high probability of failings. A good clue is that they collected 10 times the money that they were trying to attract, which means they either don't understand the market, or have grossly underpriced their product. I suspect the latter. Methinks it maketh more sense to put the sensors in the riders shoes, rather than in the pedals. It would be easier to build, would indicate the power delivered by the riders feet instead of the pedals, and could be used for other power measurements, such as running. One would only need one power meter sensor pair for the shoes, not one for each bicycle. Something like this: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/lucks-cycling-power-meter-shoe.html Well, maybe not. No sign of a power meter on their web pile: https://luck-bike.es/en/ Hell, Jeff, just get some strain gauges surgically inserted in your tibias, and you're halfway to the universal power meter. Tie some piezoelectric generators to your Achilles' tendon for power, add a bit of DSP and a BlueTooth stack and you're cooking with gas! Maybe run a power lead up to the chest to power the internal HRM for extra points. |
#16
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Power Meter
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 01:58:16 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: Hell, Jeff, just get some strain gauges surgically inserted in your tibias, and you're halfway to the universal power meter. Tie some piezoelectric generators to your Achilles' tendon for power, add a bit of DSP and a BlueTooth stack and you're cooking with gas! Maybe run a power lead up to the chest to power the internal HRM for extra points. The Bionic Bicyclist? I may already have some of that installed. I recently had to have a CT scan to locate two big kidney boulders that are currently trying to kill me. Among the medical terminology was mention of the electrodes that the surgeon left attached to my heart in 2003 after a triple heart bypass operation. All I need to do is locate the wires, and I might be able to monitor my heart performance and loading. Cyborgs-R-Us. Among my many predictions that never happened, I had somehow decided that wearable computing was going to be the next big thing. I don't recall the exact year, but I'll guess about 2008. Computers had become small and low power enough to be wearable. Like my mythical fully instrumented bicycle, all that was needed was a way for all the devices and sensors to communicate, and a safe way to power those that need power. Never mind what the result looked like. The early bicycles, automobiles, and airplanes were also rather odd looking. So, I ran a few experiments, did some paper designs, tried to sell a few ideas, but mostly waited for something to happen. Nothing happened. Nobody wanted to wear a computer. The demise of Google Glass and the luke warm reception of the various smar****ches largely ended my optimism. When I tried to raise the "wired bicycle" concept in rec.bicycles.tech, the general reception was dismal. When I tried to minimize the involvement to just making measurements and data logging, most of the comments were something like "we don't need no stinkin numbers. Just go for a ride and try it. If it's any good, I'll let you know". The next logical step after wearable computing would have been cybernetic attachments, such as the implants you describe. However, without the aid of the intermediate step of wearable computers, it will never happen. Drivel: I just got out of the hospital after a failed laser lithotripsy trying to remove a rather large kidney stone. We try again in 3 weeks. After I recover, we do the stone on the other side. I'm ok, no pain, but also no bicycle riding. Bah Humbug (T'is the season). -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#17
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Power Meter
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 01:58:16 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: Hell, Jeff, just get some strain gauges surgically inserted in your tibias, and you're halfway to the universal power meter. Tie some piezoelectric generators to your Achilles' tendon for power, add a bit of DSP and a BlueTooth stack and you're cooking with gas! Maybe run a power lead up to the chest to power the internal HRM for extra points. The Bionic Bicyclist? I may already have some of that installed. I recently had to have a CT scan to locate two big kidney boulders that are currently trying to kill me. Among the medical terminology was mention of the electrodes that the surgeon left attached to my heart in 2003 after a triple heart bypass operation. All I need to do is locate the wires, and I might be able to monitor my heart performance and loading. Cyborgs-R-Us. Among my many predictions that never happened, I had somehow decided that wearable computing was going to be the next big thing. I don't recall the exact year, but I'll guess about 2008. Computers had become small and low power enough to be wearable. Like my mythical fully instrumented bicycle, all that was needed was a way for all the devices and sensors to communicate, and a safe way to power those that need power. Never mind what the result looked like. The early bicycles, automobiles, and airplanes were also rather odd looking. So, I ran a few experiments, did some paper designs, tried to sell a few ideas, but mostly waited for something to happen. Nothing happened. Nobody wanted to wear a computer. The demise of Google Glass and the luke warm reception of the various smar****ches largely ended my optimism. When I tried to raise the "wired bicycle" concept in rec.bicycles.tech, the general reception was dismal. When I tried to minimize the involvement to just making measurements and data logging, most of the comments were something like "we don't need no stinkin numbers. Just go for a ride and try it. If it's any good, I'll let you know". The next logical step after wearable computing would have been cybernetic attachments, such as the implants you describe. However, without the aid of the intermediate step of wearable computers, it will never happen. Drivel: I just got out of the hospital after a failed laser lithotripsy trying to remove a rather large kidney stone. We try again in 3 weeks. After I recover, we do the stone on the other side. I'm ok, no pain, but also no bicycle riding. Bah Humbug (T'is the season). Good luck with the kidney stone, Jeff. Mine was the absolute best case scenario, but it still wasn't fun. |
#18
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Power Meter
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 5:48:04 PM UTC-8, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Are you a Pro who can climb 12% at 15 mph? Which professional cyclist can climb 12% at 24 km/h? Do you mean for 1 minute? That seems to require about 10 W/kg Or maybe this calculator is wrong: BikePower-0.33: grade of hill = 12.0% headwind = 0.0 kph rolling friction coeff = 0.0047 BM rate = 1.40 W/kg air resistance coeff = (0.2670, 0) efficiency: transmission = 98.0% human = 24.9% What's the required W/kg based on your calculations (and which input data do you use)? -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.. I don't think you understood what I was saying - your position climbing on a bike is pretty much irrelevant to the aerodynamic drag because that is a logarithmic growth curve. Until you get over 13 mph or so the rolling resistance is the major drag on a drop bar road bike. If you don't like the design of these devices by all means do not buy them. But also do not argue with me that inconsequential details make them unusable if you don't mind. |
#19
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Power Meter
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 5:48:04 PM UTC-8, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Are you a Pro who can climb 12% at 15 mph? Which professional cyclist can climb 12% at 24 km/h? Do you mean for 1 minute? That seems to require about 10 W/kg Or maybe this calculator is wrong: BikePower-0.33: grade of hill = 12.0% headwind = 0.0 kph rolling friction coeff = 0.0047 BM rate = 1.40 W/kg air resistance coeff = (0.2670, 0) efficiency: transmission = 98.0% human = 24.9% What's the required W/kg based on your calculations (and which input data do you use)? -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.. By the way Claus please don't take my comments too seriously. I'm on several forums with total idiots and I come over here after getting really irritated by people who throw around words like Stefan-Bo9ltzmann Constant and then say that you can't measure the temperature of a body by looking at it's spectroscopic cross section. Uh, that is what the Stefan-Boltzmann law is about. So when I get here I'm often too harsh with people. I should have just said that I pulled those numbers out of the air just as an example. |
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