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#131
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 7/13/2018 4:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:
The obvious premise is that "if you don't ride like me, you're a fanatical dope." "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#132
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 2:03:37 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-13 13:35, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 1:09:16 PM UTC-7, duane wrote: On 13/07/2018 3:49 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:29:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-11 13:47, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/10/2018 5:04 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-09 12:48, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/9/2018 12:12 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: European cities have some tendency to be more compact with shorter rides (1-2 km) for work and errands. American urban areas tend to be spread out so that we can all have our half acre of lawn or more. Where I live, a 2 km ride will get me to and from the library, our dentist, the post office, the pharmacy and one convenience/beer store. Hardware, groceries, restaurants, credit union or anything else is further. I'm fine with that, but most Americans (probably like most Europeans) will never ride 10 miles to get to and from their credit union. The Dutch and Belgians used to be different. 10mi, 20mi, big deal. But can't say about today as this was 30 years ago. Sorry, but if you mean that most Dutch and Belgians used to ride something like 20 miles per day, I don't believe you. Note that I didn't say "most of the population". Most of my friends, yes. Or rather, nearly all of them. Most of the population I can't say, of course. Very popular was the "kroegen tocht" (pub run) by road bike, especially among Belgians which is why I preferred to ride with them. 30-40mi with here and there a beer. Dutch road bikers were often too competitive and only concentrated on the sports aspects, many wouldn't ever consider visiting a pub because that cost "valuable minutes". Those Dutch guys should be stopping every five miles for a beer. What are they thinking? And when we're talking about "the Dutch and Belgians," the assumption is that we're talking about a country average and not your cohort of pub-crawlers. I could say Oregonians ride hundreds of miles a week because that's what my friends do, but it hardly describes the state average. Wait, I thought most people in northern California went to work on single track fighting saber tooth er mountain lions, equipped with only a largish rock and a roofing nail as tools but carrying multiple growlers of the local plonk. Isn't that what they do "out there?" I figured I was much too competitive to to be wasting "minutes" stopping for a beer. We usually do that after the 100k or so... Then you likely missed a lot of great pubs. We often plan our routes so we hit a brewpub towards the end of the ride. Like the Fair Oaks Brewpub yesterday: https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...SJMs97RQ/o.jpg Wow. A brew pub. http://www.portlandbeer.org/breweries This doesn't even cover the breweries with multiple locations, like the ten zillion McMenamins (two in walking distance from my house). I won't stop for a brew pub. I will stop for blackberries -- and sometimes coffee and pastry, usually on dreary winter rides. I stop at 7-11s and country stores for water and donettes. Food of the gods. BTW, speaking of abbeys, I've ridden down to the Mt. Angel Abbey, but never bothered getting beer. https://www.mountangelabbey.org/benedictine-brewery/ I placed in the Mt. Angel criterium one year and won a box of Kettle Chips -- two dozen giant bags. It was kind of bizarre. In fact, it was at the Octoberfest, and I did have a beer. https://www.travelsalem.com/sites/de...?itok=K4VH-G0O Makes you miss your lederhosen, eh? The little downtown is kind of hokey. Like Duane, I prefer not to drink beer until the end of a ride. My son and I tend to stop at the food carts and get lunch and ride home with it, bags swinging from the bars for the last mile home. https://noticingswportland.files.wor...0/p9304543.jpg The obvious premise is that "if you don't ride like me, you're a fanatical dope." I feel the same way now that I'm old and slow. When my son rides me off his wheel (every ride), I just say "oh, you only care about the sports aspects . . . I'm enjoying the scenery. Look, a flower!" The funny thing is that being super fit, he sees far more flowers than I do. I mostly see his rear wheel fading into the distance -- and that dark place just before heart failure. How is it that someone can get a two minute gap in about ten seconds? It's bizarre. I'm going out with the old guys this weekend. It will make me feel better about life. With them, "talking pace" means actually talking and not gasping for air. Admit to yourself that you, I and probably most others in this NG are now in the geezer category. Past prime, or whatever. No matter how hard we train we will plateau sooner than we hope for. So just enjoy that flower. When I ride with friends I always tell them that should I pull away from them not to redline themselves, I'll wait. Also to ask for a break anytime they feel it would be good. It's not a race. Sometimes it's not just the young whippersnappers who disappear in the distance. I have a client where the president cycles and he is well above 60. I rode with him. Once. He really puts on the coals and after going at 25mph for about 25mins my tongue almost hung on the handlebar. Yet he looked like he just did a walk in the park. So I politely bowed out and rode the rest of the trip by myself, slooowly. I was done. I ride with some fast old guys, but at least I'm in the hunt, and there is always time to recover after efforts. Not with my son. He's always trying to set Strava records. I hate Strava. -- Jay Beattie. |
#133
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:49:26 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:29:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-11 13:47, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/10/2018 5:04 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-09 12:48, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/9/2018 12:12 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: European cities have some tendency to be more compact with shorter rides (1-2 km) for work and errands. American urban areas tend to be spread out so that we can all have our half acre of lawn or more. Where I live, a 2 km ride will get me to and from the library, our dentist, the post office, the pharmacy and one convenience/beer store. Hardware, groceries, restaurants, credit union or anything else is further. I'm fine with that, but most Americans (probably like most Europeans) will never ride 10 miles to get to and from their credit union. The Dutch and Belgians used to be different. 10mi, 20mi, big deal. But can't say about today as this was 30 years ago. Sorry, but if you mean that most Dutch and Belgians used to ride something like 20 miles per day, I don't believe you. Note that I didn't say "most of the population". Most of my friends, yes. Or rather, nearly all of them. Most of the population I can't say, of course. Very popular was the "kroegen tocht" (pub run) by road bike, especially among Belgians which is why I preferred to ride with them. 30-40mi with here and there a beer. Dutch road bikers were often too competitive and only concentrated on the sports aspects, many wouldn't ever consider visiting a pub because that cost "valuable minutes". Those Dutch guys should be stopping every five miles for a beer. What are they thinking? Drinking beer during a road bike ride? Ridiculous, one of Joerg's fantasies. Very few drink a beer afterwards. Lou |
#134
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 2018-07-13 21:10, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 2:03:37 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-13 13:35, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 1:09:16 PM UTC-7, duane wrote: On 13/07/2018 3:49 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:29:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-11 13:47, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/10/2018 5:04 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-09 12:48, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/9/2018 12:12 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: European cities have some tendency to be more compact with shorter rides (1-2 km) for work and errands. American urban areas tend to be spread out so that we can all have our half acre of lawn or more. Where I live, a 2 km ride will get me to and from the library, our dentist, the post office, the pharmacy and one convenience/beer store. Hardware, groceries, restaurants, credit union or anything else is further. I'm fine with that, but most Americans (probably like most Europeans) will never ride 10 miles to get to and from their credit union. The Dutch and Belgians used to be different. 10mi, 20mi, big deal. But can't say about today as this was 30 years ago. Sorry, but if you mean that most Dutch and Belgians used to ride something like 20 miles per day, I don't believe you. Note that I didn't say "most of the population". Most of my friends, yes. Or rather, nearly all of them. Most of the population I can't say, of course. Very popular was the "kroegen tocht" (pub run) by road bike, especially among Belgians which is why I preferred to ride with them. 30-40mi with here and there a beer. Dutch road bikers were often too competitive and only concentrated on the sports aspects, many wouldn't ever consider visiting a pub because that cost "valuable minutes". Those Dutch guys should be stopping every five miles for a beer. What are they thinking? And when we're talking about "the Dutch and Belgians," the assumption is that we're talking about a country average and not your cohort of pub-crawlers. I could say Oregonians ride hundreds of miles a week because that's what my friends do, but it hardly describes the state average. Wait, I thought most people in northern California went to work on single track fighting saber tooth er mountain lions, equipped with only a largish rock and a roofing nail as tools but carrying multiple growlers of the local plonk. Isn't that what they do "out there?" I figured I was much too competitive to to be wasting "minutes" stopping for a beer. We usually do that after the 100k or so... Then you likely missed a lot of great pubs. We often plan our routes so we hit a brewpub towards the end of the ride. Like the Fair Oaks Brewpub yesterday: https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...SJMs97RQ/o.jpg Wow. A brew pub. http://www.portlandbeer.org/breweries This doesn't even cover the breweries with multiple locations, like the ten zillion McMenamins (two in walking distance from my house). Folsom, Rancho Cordova and Placerville don't have to hide themselves here. The density of brew pubs per 10,000 people is probably similar. On Friday's ride we came by three other brew pubs but the problem was the usual, they won't open before 4pm. ... I won't stop for a brew pub. I will stop for blackberries -- and sometimes coffee and pastry, usually on dreary winter rides. I stop at 7-11s and country stores for water and donettes. Food of the gods. Yuck. On long rides I carry my own food. Sandwiches, bread made from the trub of beer, with a generous layer of cold cuts and cheeses inbetween. The good stuff like Pecorino cheese. Blackberries are great but for some reason there are still not ripe along our bike trails. When they are I have become careful. Once on an MTB trail I ate probably between a pound or two. I had to return home. Fast. BTW, speaking of abbeys, I've ridden down to the Mt. Angel Abbey, but never bothered getting beer. In this area they'd take away your man card for that :-) https://www.mountangelabbey.org/benedictine-brewery/ I placed in the Mt. Angel criterium one year and won a box of Kettle Chips -- two dozen giant bags. It was kind of bizarre. In fact, it was at the Octoberfest, and I did have a beer. https://www.travelsalem.com/sites/de...?itok=K4VH-G0O Makes you miss your lederhosen, eh? The little downtown is kind of hokey. I am not much into ethnic cultural stuff, never was. Maybe I moved too much. Like Duane, I prefer not to drink beer until the end of a ride. My son and I tend to stop at the food carts and get lunch and ride home with it, bags swinging from the bars for the last mile home. https://noticingswportland.files.wor...0/p9304543.jpg We try to always stop at a brew pub towards the end of the ride, along the way. I never eat there but one of my friends does. During rides he eats candy-bar style snacks and then at the Fair Oaks brew pub he ate a big pretzel. We ride about the same number of miles/year yet he is thin as a rail and I am not. Not fair! The obvious premise is that "if you don't ride like me, you're a fanatical dope." I feel the same way now that I'm old and slow. When my son rides me off his wheel (every ride), I just say "oh, you only care about the sports aspects . . . I'm enjoying the scenery. Look, a flower!" The funny thing is that being super fit, he sees far more flowers than I do. I mostly see his rear wheel fading into the distance -- and that dark place just before heart failure. How is it that someone can get a two minute gap in about ten seconds? It's bizarre. I'm going out with the old guys this weekend. It will make me feel better about life. With them, "talking pace" means actually talking and not gasping for air. Admit to yourself that you, I and probably most others in this NG are now in the geezer category. Past prime, or whatever. No matter how hard we train we will plateau sooner than we hope for. So just enjoy that flower. When I ride with friends I always tell them that should I pull away from them not to redline themselves, I'll wait. Also to ask for a break anytime they feel it would be good. It's not a race. Sometimes it's not just the young whippersnappers who disappear in the distance. I have a client where the president cycles and he is well above 60. I rode with him. Once. He really puts on the coals and after going at 25mph for about 25mins my tongue almost hung on the handlebar. Yet he looked like he just did a walk in the park. So I politely bowed out and rode the rest of the trip by myself, slooowly. I was done. I ride with some fast old guys, but at least I'm in the hunt, and there is always time to recover after efforts. Not with my son. He's always trying to set Strava records. I hate Strava. I'll probably never sign up for that. Actually can't right now because I don't use a smart phone. It's also too competitive. As one rider (actually the 25mph guy above) said, "It's supposed to be fun". -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#136
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Making America into Amsterdam
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#137
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 20:48:15 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 7/14/2018 3:06 AM, wrote: Drinking beer during a road bike ride? Ridiculous, one of Joerg's fantasies. Very few drink a beer afterwards. It's vanishingly rare among the people I ride with. There was one guy I knew well, but not as a cyclist. One day he invited me to do a short (maybe 15 mile) ride with him, the only one we ever did together. To my surprise, at about 10 miles he stopped to go into a bar. The barmaid said "Hi, Sam [not his real name], the usual?" He said yes, and she served him a shot in a beer. As he put it "I need to get my blood octane up for that hill on the way home." After he finished that, he had another round. He did make it up the hill, but I was waiting quite a long time at the top. And years later, he was ticketed for drunk driving. I understand he's officially an alcoholic now, and his health has nosedived as a result. He's no longer able to ride at all. But think how romantic it sounds. Rather like attending the Oktoberfest with your leather pants. On the other hand as The Bay Area Bicycle Law group reports that as many as 19% of bike deaths, in the area in 2014, had blood alcohol levels of 0.08 or higher, perhaps drunken cyclists aren't really aren't really any different than any other drunken oaf. |
#138
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 7/14/2018 7:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip Fantasies? With two of my riding buddies there has hardly been a ride where we didn't stop at a brew pub. The next ride will be on very remote MTB turf and there won't even be a water spigot anywhere. So, I am going to carry a pre-cooled stainless thermos with homemade IPA. We'll probably be enjoying it here, like last time: http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/SouthFork1.JPG IPA travels remarkably well on the rack of an MTB. When I poured it there was a good head on it and it was almost too cold so I had to warm the cup with my hands. Some of the Belgian groups in the 80's topped that. A few riders had a demi-bouteille in the 2nd bottle holder. Du vin rouge, with a loose cork in there. They let that circle once in a while. Drinking wine out of a bottle may be bad style but it sure tasted good. Here in the US they'd arrest you if a cop saw that. Last year I went on a benefit ride, "Ride for Diabetes" and they served beer at the end, and it was actually decent beer https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/140/3558/. |
#139
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 7/14/2018 9:46 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 20:48:15 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/14/2018 3:06 AM, wrote: Drinking beer during a road bike ride? Ridiculous, one of Joerg's fantasies. Very few drink a beer afterwards. It's vanishingly rare among the people I ride with. There was one guy I knew well, but not as a cyclist. One day he invited me to do a short (maybe 15 mile) ride with him, the only one we ever did together. To my surprise, at about 10 miles he stopped to go into a bar. The barmaid said "Hi, Sam [not his real name], the usual?" He said yes, and she served him a shot in a beer. As he put it "I need to get my blood octane up for that hill on the way home." After he finished that, he had another round. He did make it up the hill, but I was waiting quite a long time at the top. And years later, he was ticketed for drunk driving. I understand he's officially an alcoholic now, and his health has nosedived as a result. He's no longer able to ride at all. But think how romantic it sounds. Rather like attending the Oktoberfest with your leather pants. On the other hand as The Bay Area Bicycle Law group reports that as many as 19% of bike deaths, in the area in 2014, had blood alcohol levels of 0.08 or higher, perhaps drunken cyclists aren't really aren't really any different than any other drunken oaf. And a few years ago, a Dr. Crocker of Austin Texas did a study of all bike injuries in Austin hospitals. His objective was to show that bike helmets were effective, as part of his long-time efforts in favor of mandatory bike helmet laws for all ages. Instead, his paper showed that helmets did not correlate with a reduction in head injuries at a statistically significant level. But his study was one of the very first to also track blood alcohol levels in injured cyclists, and it showed statistically significant correlation between alcohol and head injury - or maybe brain injury, I forget which. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#140
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 2018-07-14 22:03, sms wrote:
On 7/14/2018 7:53 AM, Joerg wrote: snip Fantasies? With two of my riding buddies there has hardly been a ride where we didn't stop at a brew pub. The next ride will be on very remote MTB turf and there won't even be a water spigot anywhere. So, I am going to carry a pre-cooled stainless thermos with homemade IPA. We'll probably be enjoying it here, like last time: http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/SouthFork1.JPG IPA travels remarkably well on the rack of an MTB. When I poured it there was a good head on it and it was almost too cold so I had to warm the cup with my hands. Some of the Belgian groups in the 80's topped that. A few riders had a demi-bouteille in the 2nd bottle holder. Du vin rouge, with a loose cork in there. They let that circle once in a while. Drinking wine out of a bottle may be bad style but it sure tasted good. Here in the US they'd arrest you if a cop saw that. Last year I went on a benefit ride, "Ride for Diabetes" and they served beer at the end, and it was actually decent beer https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/140/3558/. Once I saw a photo from a Paris-Brest-Paris race and a rider was coming out of a pub, Belgian beer in hand, all smiles. Savoir vivre. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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