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#1
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
Without modern cyclocomputers, how could bicyclists know whether they
were obeying the proposed 8 mph law? Cheers, Carl Fogel *** Boulder May Put Brakes On Speeding Cyclists November 13, 2011 9:32 AM BOULDER, Colo. (CBS4)- Bicyclists in Boulder may have to watch how fast they coast. The City Council is considering an 8 mph speed limit for cyclists in certain locations. The council will consider the speed limit proposal at next week’s meeting. In the meantime, the ordinance has some cyclists pedaling their opposition. “The biking community wants to have consistent laws around the state. People travel from city to city every day,” said Bicycle Colorado Executive Director Dan Grunig. Grunig has been hearing mutterings of a bike speed limit in Boulder for a few months. The speed limit would only apply when cyclists are pedaling through a crosswalk. Grunig believes if that ordinance is approved, the law could do more harm than good. “The problem with an 8 mph speed limit is that it blames the victim if they are hit in the crosswalk. Now, if a cyclist is hit in a safety crosswalk they have to prove they were going under 8 mph and that’s not possible,” said Grunig. “It just seems kind of like a silly rule, honestly. I feel like as a cyclist we just obey the same rules as cars do. If they don’t have to do it, then we probably shouldn’t have to do it either,” said cyclist Aaron Barcheck. Some cyclists feel the 8 mph limit is too slow. Others said they would support the speed limit, including one man who was hit by another cyclist. “I don’t have a problem with that,” said cyclist Larry Ardito. “Sometimes people just don’t slow down or obey the signs.” http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/1...ding-cyclists/ *** |
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#2
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
On Nov 15, 5:58*am, wrote:
Without modern cyclocomputers, how could bicyclists know whether they were obeying the proposed 8 mph law? By taking not less than 7:30 between mileposts. Cheers, Carl Fogel *** Boulder May Put Brakes On Speeding Cyclists November 13, 2011 9:32 AM BOULDER, Colo. (CBS4)- Bicyclists in Boulder may have to watch how fast they coast. The City Council is considering an 8 mph speed limit for cyclists in certain locations. The council will consider the speed limit proposal at next week’s meeting. In the meantime, the ordinance has some cyclists pedaling their opposition. “The biking community wants to have consistent laws around the state. People travel from city to city every day,” said Bicycle Colorado Executive Director Dan Grunig. Grunig has been hearing mutterings of a bike speed limit in Boulder for a few months. The speed limit would only apply when cyclists are pedaling through a crosswalk. Grunig believes if that ordinance is approved, the law could do more harm than good. “The problem with an 8 mph speed limit is that it blames the victim if they are hit in the crosswalk. Now, if a cyclist is hit in a safety crosswalk they have to prove they were going under 8 mph and that’s not possible,” said Grunig. “It just seems kind of like a silly rule, honestly. I feel like as a cyclist we just obey the same rules as cars do. If they don’t have to do it, then we probably shouldn’t have to do it either,” said cyclist Aaron Barcheck. Some cyclists feel the 8 mph limit is too slow. Others said they would support the speed limit, including one man who was hit by another cyclist. “I don’t have a problem with that,” said cyclist Larry Ardito. “Sometimes people just don’t slow down or obey the signs.” http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/1...rakes-on-speed... *** |
#3
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
On Nov 15, 12:58*am, wrote:
Without modern cyclocomputers, how could bicyclists know whether they were obeying the proposed 8 mph law? There should be an electronic disabling mechanism installed in the hub, so if someone rides faster than 8 mph through a crosswalk the hub locks up. I would imagine that that would be pretty effective. Whether you were launched, or saw someone else get launched, you'd be damned sure to slower than the esc(r)ape velocity. What I didn't catch from that article was when a rider had to ride slower than 8 mph through a crosswalk. I'm not familiar with Boulder's setup - are all crosswalks yield-to-the pedestrian? Cars must stop for a pedestrian that's trying to cross the street? R |
#4
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
On Nov 14, 9:58*pm, wrote:
Without modern cyclocomputers, how could bicyclists know whether they were obeying the proposed 8 mph law? Cheers, Carl Fogel *** Boulder May Put Brakes On Speeding Cyclists November 13, 2011 9:32 AM BOULDER, Colo. (CBS4)- Bicyclists in Boulder may have to watch how fast they coast. The City Council is considering an 8 mph speed limit for cyclists in certain locations. The council will consider the speed limit proposal at next week’s meeting. In the meantime, the ordinance has some cyclists pedaling their opposition. “The biking community wants to have consistent laws around the state. People travel from city to city every day,” said Bicycle Colorado Executive Director Dan Grunig. Grunig has been hearing mutterings of a bike speed limit in Boulder for a few months. The speed limit would only apply when cyclists are pedaling through a crosswalk. Grunig believes if that ordinance is approved, the law could do more harm than good. “The problem with an 8 mph speed limit is that it blames the victim if they are hit in the crosswalk. Now, if a cyclist is hit in a safety crosswalk they have to prove they were going under 8 mph and that’s not possible,” said Grunig. “It just seems kind of like a silly rule, honestly. I feel like as a cyclist we just obey the same rules as cars do. If they don’t have to do it, then we probably shouldn’t have to do it either,” said cyclist Aaron Barcheck. Some cyclists feel the 8 mph limit is too slow. Others said they would support the speed limit, including one man who was hit by another cyclist. “I don’t have a problem with that,” said cyclist Larry Ardito. “Sometimes people just don’t slow down or obey the signs.” http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/1...rakes-on-speed... *** I assume that by "through," the ordinance refers to riding in the crosswalk from one side of a road to another and not just across a crosswalk that is perpendicular to traffic (?) If so, that is no different than similar laws requiring cyclists to ride at the speed of pedestrian traffic while in pedestrial facilities. If not, then it is bizarre. In PDX, pedestrians have the right of way the moment they step in to a crosswalk, and motorists downtown are compliant -- and I cross about a zillion crosswalks every morning and have to watch like a hawk because traffic will just stop. So, crossing at 8mph would be a benefit if there were someone in the crosswalk. Otherwise, it would be a bizarre hokey-pokey of unnecessary slowing down. -- Jay Beattie. |
#5
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
On Nov 15, 3:29*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Nov 14, 9:58*pm, wrote: Without modern cyclocomputers, how could bicyclists know whether they were obeying the proposed 8 mph law? Cheers, Carl Fogel *** Boulder May Put Brakes On Speeding Cyclists November 13, 2011 9:32 AM BOULDER, Colo. (CBS4)- Bicyclists in Boulder may have to watch how fast they coast. The City Council is considering an 8 mph speed limit for cyclists in certain locations. The council will consider the speed limit proposal at next week’s meeting. In the meantime, the ordinance has some cyclists pedaling their opposition. “The biking community wants to have consistent laws around the state. People travel from city to city every day,” said Bicycle Colorado Executive Director Dan Grunig. Grunig has been hearing mutterings of a bike speed limit in Boulder for a few months. The speed limit would only apply when cyclists are pedaling through a crosswalk. Grunig believes if that ordinance is approved, the law could do more harm than good. “The problem with an 8 mph speed limit is that it blames the victim if they are hit in the crosswalk. Now, if a cyclist is hit in a safety crosswalk they have to prove they were going under 8 mph and that’s not possible,” said Grunig. “It just seems kind of like a silly rule, honestly. I feel like as a cyclist we just obey the same rules as cars do. If they don’t have to do it, then we probably shouldn’t have to do it either,” said cyclist Aaron Barcheck. Some cyclists feel the 8 mph limit is too slow. Others said they would support the speed limit, including one man who was hit by another cyclist. “I don’t have a problem with that,” said cyclist Larry Ardito. “Sometimes people just don’t slow down or obey the signs.” http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/1...rakes-on-speed... *** I assume that by "through," the ordinance refers to riding in the crosswalk from one side of a road to another and not just across a crosswalk that is perpendicular to traffic (?) *If so, that is no different than similar laws requiring cyclists to ride at the speed of pedestrian traffic while in pedestrial facilities. *If not, then it is bizarre. In PDX, pedestrians have the right of way the moment they step in to a crosswalk, and motorists downtown are compliant -- and I cross about a zillion crosswalks every morning and have to watch like a hawk because traffic will just stop. *So, crossing at 8mph would be a benefit if there were someone in the crosswalk. *Otherwise, it would be a bizarre hokey-pokey of unnecessary slowing down. -- Jay Beattie. In UK, we must (by law) give precedence to the pedestrian on a crossing whatever carriage or beast we ride upon. Speed is irrelevant, we stop (mostly). |
#6
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 06:05:02 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
wrote: On Nov 15, 12:58*am, wrote: Without modern cyclocomputers, how could bicyclists know whether they were obeying the proposed 8 mph law? There should be an electronic disabling mechanism installed in the hub, so if someone rides faster than 8 mph through a crosswalk the hub locks up. I would imagine that that would be pretty effective. Whether you were launched, or saw someone else get launched, you'd be damned sure to slower than the esc(r)ape velocity. What I didn't catch from that article was when a rider had to ride slower than 8 mph through a crosswalk. I'm not familiar with Boulder's setup - are all crosswalks yield-to-the pedestrian? Cars must stop for a pedestrian that's trying to cross the street? R Dear R, Another article: "Kurt Weiler, a Boulder police commander who helped draft the rules going before the council, said officers soon could be clocking the speed of pedestrians and cyclists in the city's crosswalks. He said it would be up to the municipal court to determine fine amounts or penalties for those who exceed the 8 mph limit or fail to activate flashing lights." http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-c...ws/ci_19311115 As for the nature of the Boulder crosswalks and the law, here's part of 2006 comment: "A couple of years ago, the city of Boulder, Colorado decided to install new crosswalks for pedestrians to accommodate the large number of student-pedestrians who walk from local neighborhoods to the University of Colorado campus. These were no ordinary crosswalks, however, because the city of Boulder decided not to place these new crosswalks at intersections where one would expect pedestrians to cross streets. They also decided against erecting pedestrian bridges or digging pedestrian tunnels over or under the streets. Instead, in a fit of bureaucratic idiocy worthy of Bismarck, the city of Boulder decided to construct crosswalks across the middle of the busy streets surrounding campus." "Here’s how Boulder’s new crosswalks work. Pedestrians who want to cross one of the busy streets surrounding campus approach one of the new crosswalks. As they approach, traffic whizzes by at 30 miles per hour, because there are neither stop signs nor traffic lights at the crosswalk. When the pedestrian reaches the crosswalk, he presses a button on a sign which lights up three flashing yellow light bulbs on the crosswalk sign. These flashing yellow lights are meant to signal to drivers that a pedestrian is crossing, and that they must immediately stop in the middle of the road to allow the pedestrian to cross. The pedestrian then crosses the road after having (hopefully) stopped both directions of traffic." "The extreme absurdity and danger of these crosswalks is hard to convey in words. You really need to see them in action (or, better still, cross one of them) in order to grasp how idiotic and reckless the city of Boulder really was in constructing them. These crosswalks are extremely dangerous, in the first place, because they employ flashing yellow lights rather than red lights to stop drivers. I hate to break it to the anti-car tree-huggers in Boulder, but red lights mean 'stop' to drivers in this country, whereas yellow only means 'slow' or 'caution.' Drivers who have never been to Boulder surely cannot be expected to know a priori that three flashing yellow lights mean 'Stop: people are walking into moving traffic.'" http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/crovelli3.html The author predicted accidents at these peculiar Boulder crosswalks, and the new 8 mph proposal appears to be based on his prediction being correct. Slowing cross-traffic to 8 mph seems unlikely to stop people from being hit in crosswalks in the middle of the block by 30 mph traffic when their only protection is strange non-standard blinking yellow lights. A yellow light followed by a red light and a walk/don't walk light would seem to be more sensible. We have them here in Pueblo. Cheers, Carl Fogel |
#7
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
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#8
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
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#9
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
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#10
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Thank heavens for super-accurate cyclocomputers!
On Nov 15, 12:34*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 06:05:02 -0800 (PST), RicodJour wrote: On Nov 15, 12:58*am, wrote: Without modern cyclocomputers, how could bicyclists know whether they were obeying the proposed 8 mph law? There should be an electronic disabling mechanism installed in the hub, so if someone rides faster than 8 mph through a crosswalk the hub locks up. *I would imagine that that would be pretty effective. Whether you were launched, or saw someone else get launched, you'd be damned sure to slower than the esc(r)ape velocity. What I didn't catch from that article was when a rider had to ride slower than 8 mph through a crosswalk. *I'm not familiar with Boulder's setup - are all crosswalks yield-to-the pedestrian? *Cars must stop for a pedestrian that's trying to cross the street? R Dear R, Another article: "Kurt Weiler, a Boulder police commander who helped draft the rules going before the council, said officers soon could be clocking the speed of pedestrians and cyclists in the city's crosswalks. He said it would be up to the municipal court to determine fine amounts or penalties for those who exceed the 8 mph limit or fail to activate flashing lights." *http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-c...ws/ci_19311115 As for the nature of the Boulder crosswalks and the law, here's part of 2006 comment: "A couple of years ago, the city of Boulder, Colorado decided to install new crosswalks for pedestrians to accommodate the large number of student-pedestrians who walk from local neighborhoods to the University of Colorado campus. These were no ordinary crosswalks, however, because the city of Boulder decided not to place these new crosswalks at intersections where one would expect pedestrians to cross streets. They also decided against erecting pedestrian bridges or digging pedestrian tunnels over or under the streets. Instead, in a fit of bureaucratic idiocy worthy of Bismarck, the city of Boulder decided to construct crosswalks across the middle of the busy streets surrounding campus." "Here’s how Boulder’s new crosswalks work. Pedestrians who want to cross one of the busy streets surrounding campus approach one of the new crosswalks. As they approach, traffic whizzes by at 30 miles per hour, because there are neither stop signs nor traffic lights at the crosswalk. When the pedestrian reaches the crosswalk, he presses a button on a sign which lights up three flashing yellow light bulbs on the crosswalk sign. These flashing yellow lights are meant to signal to drivers that a pedestrian is crossing, and that they must immediately stop in the middle of the road to allow the pedestrian to cross. The pedestrian then crosses the road after having (hopefully) stopped both directions of traffic." "The extreme absurdity and danger of these crosswalks is hard to convey in words. You really need to see them in action (or, better still, cross one of them) in order to grasp how idiotic and reckless the city of Boulder really was in constructing them. These crosswalks are extremely dangerous, in the first place, because they employ flashing yellow lights rather than red lights to stop drivers. I hate to break it to the anti-car tree-huggers in Boulder, but red lights mean 'stop' to drivers in this country, whereas yellow only means 'slow' or 'caution.' Drivers who have never been to Boulder surely cannot be expected to know a priori that three flashing yellow lights mean 'Stop: people are walking into moving traffic.'" *http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/crovelli3.html The author predicted accidents at these peculiar Boulder crosswalks, and the new 8 mph proposal appears to be based on his prediction being correct. Slowing cross-traffic to 8 mph seems unlikely to stop people from being hit in crosswalks in the middle of the block by 30 mph traffic when their only protection is strange non-standard blinking yellow lights. A yellow light followed by a red light and a walk/don't walk light would seem to be more sensible. We have them here in Pueblo. Wow. What a cluster**** of bureaucrats! I'm sure they'll eventually dumb the whole thing down to the point that a blind three year old will be free to wander the streets without any danger of being run over by a bike car or sprinting pedestrian. You know those local news Shame On You! type of programs? There should be one solely devoted to self-righteous traphic ungineers and their stupid solutions to standard problems. R |
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