"Geeze, unclip already!"

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
gds wrote:
:: wrote:
::: Hi gds:
::: Working on one's trackstand is one thing -- but it seems a dumb
::: thing to do out on Miramar International Speedway. I am
::: hypersensitive about that particular intersection because I have
::: seen a sheet-covered body there before (motorcyclist ran a red
::: light on his way to work....)
:::
:: I guess being stopped at red lights is my idea of exactly where one
:: would choose to do a track stand. (Of course not counting track
:: racing) Why is that dumb? Like most things in an activity like
:: cycling it is a skill to be mastered and can be fun when
:: accomplished.
::
:: To me it seems a bit of a stretch to compare a motorcyclist running a
:: red light with a bicyclist doing a track stand while obeying the red
:: light. There could be circumstances where the track stand might be a
:: bad idea, for example if the cyclist was blocking a lane of traffic,
:: but usually the situation is that the cyclist is off to the side. And
:: since there is a red light and thus vehicular traffic was stopped
:: even the fall should have done nothing to create a dangerous
:: situation--not at all like blowing through a red light.

I think falling over at a light and making motorist wait unnecessarily is
not acceptable. And if the lane are narrow so that cars can't get by, it
can
be dangerous. Furthermore, it's unncessary. It makes more energy than
simply unclipping.


Oh, puh-leaze!! I've done a trackstand at every light and stop sign I've
encountered for years...when I can't hold it, I unclip and put a foot down,
but most of the time I just stand there till the light changes.

It certainly doesn't seem to me to take any more energy, and if I'm in a
regular traffic lane (as in this example), it allows me to accelerate much
more quickly. This, in turn, allows me to clear the intersection without
inconveniencing the motorists for any more time than necessary.

Plus, it's cool.

As for making motorist "wait unecessarily"...you could say the same thing
about radiators overheating, engines dying, drivers stalling their vehicles
when they release the clutch too quickly, etc., etc. **** happens...no need
to get all ****y about it.

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

"GaryG" wrote: Oh, puh-leaze!! I've done a trackstand at every light and
stop sign I've encountered for years...when I can't hold it, I unclip and
put a foot down,(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly, Gary. Based on the subject heading of this thread, that was the
whole point.

Roger Zoul wrote:

I think falling over at a light and making motorist wait
unnecessarily is not acceptable.

Not to mention being run over.

And if the lane are narrow so that
cars can't get by, it can be dangerous

OK then.

Furthermore, it's
unncessary. It makes more energy than simply unclipping.

I'm impressed when people do it -- a show's a show! (As long as it's
appropriate and safe to "perform".)

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"GaryG" wrote: Oh, puh-leaze!! I've done a trackstand at every light and
stop sign I've encountered for years...when I can't hold it, I unclip and
put a foot down,(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly, Gary. Based on the subject heading of this thread, that was the
whole point.


Yes, but there's also been a whole lot of whining about how it's an
inherently dangerous practice and shouldn't be attempted in traffic.

As with any skill, developing it will typically entail a few failures. And
while it's better to practice such skills in areas without other roadway
users, the fact is that our skills will fail us on occasion (whether they're
well-honed or not).

But that's no reason to whine and get judgmental towards the cyclist
involved, or assert that motorists will think less of all cyclists because
of it. I don't think less of all motorists when I see one stall their car
at a light.

~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

I'm going to bet that all this negativity comes mostly from folks who
have tried track stands and can't do them. To some of us they are just
another cycling skill to be mastered.

I think the negativity comes from cyclists who ride in a predictable
and law abiding manner who are sick of being lumped with the morons by
motorists. Here's another example: about an hour after writing my
post above, I'm riding home from work. I'm passed on my way into a T
intersection by a cyclist in full lycra, etc. The T intersection has a
left turn lane, and a right turn lane. The guy rides up to the red
light, unclips and waits to make his left turn. (so far so good).
There is a car behind him in the left turn lane, and a car on his right
in the right turn lane, waiting for a clear spot in the traffic to make
a legal right turn. There are also cars that have the green light
waiting to make a left turn, out in the middle of the intersection. So
the light for the moving traffic lanes turns yellow, the traffic from
the left stops, and the two cars waiting to make a left turn start to
complete their turns and clear the intersection. While the light is
still yellow, the cyclist mounts up, swerves to the right directly in
front of the car waiting to make a right turn, and cuts between the
first and second cars trying to complete their left turns. Everyone
honks and swears at him - he rides off the left without looking back.
All he had to do was wait another 1 or 2 seconds and make his left turn
and no one would have been bothered. If this was the only time I had
ever seen this kind of thing then I wouldn't bother to write about it,
but we all know that there are many cyclists who treat traffic laws and
etiquette with utter disregard, and that this heavily influences
motorist behavior.

So back to gds and his track stands: I'm very glad you have mastered
this essential skill. I hope that you employ it often during your
match sprints ON THE TRACK. It has no place in road riding, as
motorists don't have the foggiest idea what you are up to. Just unclip
and stop - every car can understand that. It's not that hard, dude.
Unclip the shoe. Stop the bike. Clip in and pedal when the light
turns green. You can do it.

Mort

"mort" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm going to bet that all this negativity comes mostly from folks who
have tried track stands and can't do them. To some of us they are just
another cycling skill to be mastered.

I think the negativity comes from cyclists who ride in a predictable
and law abiding manner who are sick of being lumped with the morons by
motorists. Here's another example: about an hour after writing my
post above, I'm riding home from work. I'm passed on my way into a T
intersection by a cyclist in full lycra, etc. The T intersection has a
left turn lane, and a right turn lane. The guy rides up to the red
light, unclips and waits to make his left turn. (so far so good).
There is a car behind him in the left turn lane, and a car on his right
in the right turn lane, waiting for a clear spot in the traffic to make
a legal right turn. There are also cars that have the green light
waiting to make a left turn, out in the middle of the intersection. So
the light for the moving traffic lanes turns yellow, the traffic from
the left stops, and the two cars waiting to make a left turn start to
complete their turns and clear the intersection. While the light is
still yellow, the cyclist mounts up, swerves to the right directly in
front of the car waiting to make a right turn, and cuts between the
first and second cars trying to complete their left turns. Everyone
honks and swears at him - he rides off the left without looking back.
All he had to do was wait another 1 or 2 seconds and make his left turn
and no one would have been bothered. If this was the only time I had
ever seen this kind of thing then I wouldn't bother to write about it,
but we all know that there are many cyclists who treat traffic laws and
etiquette with utter disregard, and that this heavily influences
motorist behavior.

So back to gds and his track stands: I'm very glad you have mastered
this essential skill. I hope that you employ it often during your
match sprints ON THE TRACK. It has no place in road riding, as
motorists don't have the foggiest idea what you are up to. Just unclip
and stop - every car can understand that. It's not that hard, dude.
Unclip the shoe. Stop the bike. Clip in and pedal when the light
turns green. You can do it.

Mort


There's a big difference between an intentional and dangerous violation, and
falling over accidentally while the light's red.

As for track stands having "no place in road riding"...that's laughable.
Many thousands of cyclists use that technique every day without incident,
and without befuddling anyone (other than sanctimonious nannies).

GG

Sorni wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: I think falling over at a light and making motorist wait
::: unnecessarily is not acceptable.
::
:: Not to mention being run over.
::
::: And if the lane are narrow so that
::: cars can't get by, it can be dangerous
::
:: OK then.
::
::: Furthermore, it's
::: unncessary. It makes more energy than simply unclipping.
::
:: I'm impressed when people do it -- a show's a show! (As long as it's
:: appropriate and safe to "perform".)

Hey, I didn't say I wasn't impressed.

wrote:

Hiya:
While walking about on Miramar Road saw one commuter cyclist take a
self-induced fall. Actor: Relatively young roadie on old lugged Trek
(chrome/replacement fork) wearing helmet and with goods in backpack (no
rack, no fenders), clipless pedals. Dude stopped for the light (which
had just turned red on him) in the appropriate lane, but didn't unclip.
He kept balancing and fighting wheelflop for a good fifteen seconds
until he fell over. I asked, he said he was fine.
Yeah, he's fine, but what does that steel cager who was hanging
thirty feet back (the typical "you can't trust cyclists in front of
you/let's not activate the induction coils for the traffic signal"
distance, I believe) now think about road cyclists' and commuters' bike
handling skills. What's with not wanting to unclip, anyway? I could see
it being a bigger deal with straps and buckles to yank on and slip out
of, but isn't one of the selling points of clipless easy entry and
exit?

Robert Leone

My guess ... only a guess.... is that he thought he had mastered the
jiggle-squirm-and-balance trick but proved himself wrong.

Falling over from a dead stop must be mortifying. Anyone remember Artie Johnson
toppling over? ... on a tricycle.

--
Michael
Who removed the toe clips before ever riding the bike.

mort wrote:

I'm going to bet that all this negativity comes mostly from folks who
have tried track stands and can't do them. To some of us they are just
another cycling skill to be mastered.

I think the negativity comes from cyclists who ride in a predictable
and law abiding manner who are sick of being lumped with the morons by
motorists. Here's another example: about an hour after writing my
post above, I'm riding home from work. I'm passed on my way into a T
intersection by a cyclist in full lycra, etc. The T intersection has a
left turn lane, and a right turn lane. The guy rides up to the red
light, unclips and waits to make his left turn. (so far so good).
There is a car behind him in the left turn lane, and a car on his right
in the right turn lane, waiting for a clear spot in the traffic to make
a legal right turn. There are also cars that have the green light
waiting to make a left turn, out in the middle of the intersection. So
the light for the moving traffic lanes turns yellow, the traffic from
the left stops, and the two cars waiting to make a left turn start to
complete their turns and clear the intersection. While the light is
still yellow, the cyclist mounts up, swerves to the right directly in
front of the car waiting to make a right turn, and cuts between the
first and second cars trying to complete their left turns. Everyone
honks and swears at him - he rides off the left without looking back.
All he had to do was wait another 1 or 2 seconds and make his left turn
and no one would have been bothered. If this was the only time I had
ever seen this kind of thing then I wouldn't bother to write about it,
but we all know that there are many cyclists who treat traffic laws and
etiquette with utter disregard, and that this heavily influences
motorist behavior.

So back to gds and his track stands: I'm very glad you have mastered
this essential skill. I hope that you employ it often during your
match sprints ON THE TRACK. It has no place in road riding, as
motorists don't have the foggiest idea what you are up to. Just unclip
and stop - every car can understand that. It's not that hard, dude.
Unclip the shoe. Stop the bike. Clip in and pedal when the light
turns green. You can do it.

Mort

Still awfully judgemental. Your example starts out with the implication
that because the cyclist was wearing lycra he was already prone to
doing something stupid.

Here's the problem from my point of view. I have no argument tht
cyclists who do dangerous things on the road not only create specific
dangerous situations but their actions also serve to diminish the
status od all cyclists. OK, we all agree on that.

But the current topic is about a cyclist perhaps doing a track stand,
perhaps having difficulty unclipping, but in any case this happened
while stopped at a red light while in the proper lane. He happened to
fall.

My argument is that whatever the cause that this was not a horribly
unsafe event and is not a good example of irresponsible cycling. Others
are comparing it (by implication) to running a red light, weaving in
and out of traffic lanes, cutting people off, etc. There is a real
qualitative difference between the OP's eaxample and all the others.
As some other posters have mentioned folks regularly use track stands
on the road without mishap. It is NOT intrinsically unsafe. If you feel
that they are unsafe you simply don't have experience with them. What I
am reading in this thread is some sort of anger that is being
generalized to folks who don't do exactly as some posters want. Roger
goes so far as imply that because of my opinion of track stands that if
I get hurt no one should care.

I suggest therapy.

wrote:
:: mort wrote:
::
::: So back to gds and his track stands: I'm very glad you have
::: mastered this essential skill. I hope that you employ it often
::: during your match sprints ON THE TRACK. It has no place in road
::: riding, as motorists don't have the foggiest idea what you are up
::: to. Just unclip and stop - every car can understand that. It's
::: not that hard, dude. Unclip the shoe. Stop the bike. Clip in and
::: pedal when the light turns green. You can do it.
::
::
:: Every road rider should be able to at least fake
:: a track stand. If they can do that, they will also be able to control
:: the bike at low speeds, which is an important skill in congested
:: traffic. I would be dubious about the overall handling skill
:: and balance of anyone who feels that a track stand is
:: way out of their league.

It doesn't matter if you can do one not, it's not a good idea on a road
filled with lots of traffic at a stop light. I routinely "hover" near stop
signs if I'm the only one there or if there is only one car that I'm waiting
on so I can get through an intersection.

I'm don't seee how it matters if you're dubious of someone else's handling
skills, if those skills serve the person in question. Surely you're not
suggesting that doing a track stand in traffic on a busy road is a necessary
skill, right?