#81
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FLU
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 10:38:23 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 28, 2017 at 5:16:03 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote: snip Quite obviously you have never really lived in the country. Honking, screeching, indeed. What you have in the country is roosters that get up before daylight to proclaim their rights to the big manure pile that they claim as their fief. The cows bellowing to be milked... Good Lord, the pressures! If you do go to town you have the be careful to be back for milking time. No sleeping in on weekends the cows got to be milked and the chickens fed and the eggs gathered. ... All very regular patterns, unlike much of the stuff going in cities. You are making things up again. Being woken up at first rooster crow, before the sun comes up, may be a regular pattern but not particularly a pleasant one. Or not being able to leave the farm for more then twelve hours because you have to do the milking? You don't even want to stay up to watch the "Late Show" on the tellie as those damned roosters don't sleep late. ... No two weeks vacation either, you got to get the plowing done and the garden in or there won't be anything to eat next winter. Hint: Agricultural things have progressed quite well since you were a kid. Nowadays they have GPS controlled combines which can be operated by staff and not only the owner of the farm. Sure. Combine harvesting has been going on even longer then I've been around and they are expensive, which is why you seldom see one in the normal farmer's inventory. But what you don't think about is that to be economical combine harvesting can only be used in large fields that are relatively flat have straight boundaries. It isn't effective in fields that are irregular in shape or are not relatively flat. And sure studies are made of the pressures of city life... All you need to do is write up a good proposal and get the grant and away you go. A government funded study. We get them over here. Every few years you see an article in the Bangkok newspaper about someone that got yet another grant to study "Prostitution in Thailand". So ignoring the fact that prostitution have been studied innumerable times in the past some bloke gets a grant to study them once again. Having lived in the country and in the city, I don't need studies. I know and made my choices accordingly. Interestingly my wife who grew up in a huge city sees it the same way. She would never move back there. Well yes, the best of both worlds. Out of the built up areas and still close enough that one can drive into town for shows and shopping. One might call it the dilettante life style. The problem with this conversation is that Joerg oscillates between the abstract "country" and the reality of Cameron Park -- which is a golf-course community with an "airpark" in the Sierra foothills up the road from Sacramento. It's a fine place to live if you like suburban developments. It does put you near open space, but its not the wild west, the Mid West or anything like the "country" that I envision -- e.g. farm land or the mostly vacant land in eastern Oregon. https://traveloregon.com/wp-content/...ning_final.jpg I have no problem with bedroom communities or small towns near large towns. I'd live in one, and they can be quiet and relaxed -- unless they're filled with angry drunk drivers and mountain lions. For a sleepy bedroom community, Cameron Park seems more dangerous and stressful than NYC. And with planes buzzing around, it can't be that quiet close to town -- but who knows.. http://www.city-data.com/forum/sacra...sion-good.html -- Jay Beattie. where did the trees go ? Indians tell me the place was covered with mature juniper n fat deer |
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#82
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FLU
On 11/29/2017 8:01 PM, John B. wrote:
I'd have to point out that the average horse produces about 37 pounds of feces and 2.4 gallons of urine daily, which totals about 50 pounds of raw waste per day in feces and urine combined. About that: A few years ago, my wife and I were on a driving trip heading west and decided to head north through Michigan and camp at Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Along the way, we spontaneously decided to visit Mackinac Island, a small car-free resort island in Lake Huron. People get around the island by foot, by bike or by horse-drawn carriage. It sounded charming, and we'd never been there. We called ahead to reserve a hotel room, then loaded our bikes onto the ferry and disembarked at the island. Walking from the dock to the main street, we passed through a sort of long roofed arcade, and I got worried: Do they have lots of homeless bums here, who pee anywhere they want to? The smell of urine was _very_ strong! Once we got to the charming main street, I stopped worrying about bums. The problem was horses. The gutters were literally running with horse ****. And it occurred to me: This is probably how all cities smelled before the motor car arrived to remove the horse pollution. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#83
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FLU
On 11/29/2017 8:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:18:13 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/29/2017 1:22 PM, Joerg wrote: It is correct that it is almost a bedroom community though we do have a business park right in the village. Airplane noise, yes, but a Cessna 172 purring off into the distance is something different than the din of traffic and other noise in a large city. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDWZkXjDYsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECGCoo3Ogxg Again, false dichotomy. You pretend the only choices are the din of a dense mega-city vs. a neighborhood so quiet you can hear the mountain lions tiptoeing by. My ride today was 47 miles. I was passed by maybe 100 cars the entire time, most of those because I wandered around some old suburbs at the end rather than riding directly home. There were several five mile stretches where no cars passed me at all. Yet if I'd chosen to ride northwest instead of southeast, I could have ridden through two decent sized cities and their government buildings, libraries, restaurants, entertainment venues, shopping malls and more. And since I know all the roads and streets, including the quiet ones, traffic would have been very easy for me to handle. I thank God I'm not so timid as to be afraid to ride the roads. Ohooo... but you must be some sort of daredevil. Why I've even heard that you often ride a bicycle without even the most basic safety feature, the bicycle helmet. There is that rumor! ;-) -- - Frank Krygowski |
#85
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FLU
On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:01:55 +0700, John B.
wrote: The radio programs advertising animal feed is obviously not germane when discussing your living accommodations. Not to mention that the vast majority of the horses in the United States are pets -- horse feed in the supermarket is a sure sign that you are *not* in farming country. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net |
#86
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:24:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 11/29/2017 8:01 PM, John B. wrote: I'd have to point out that the average horse produces about 37 pounds of feces and 2.4 gallons of urine daily, which totals about 50 pounds of raw waste per day in feces and urine combined. About that: A few years ago, my wife and I were on a driving trip heading west and decided to head north through Michigan and camp at Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Along the way, we spontaneously decided to visit Mackinac Island, a small car-free resort island in Lake Huron. People get around the island by foot, by bike or by horse-drawn carriage. It sounded charming, and we'd never been there. We called ahead to reserve a hotel room, then loaded our bikes onto the ferry and disembarked at the island. Walking from the dock to the main street, we passed through a sort of long roofed arcade, and I got worried: Do they have lots of homeless bums here, who pee anywhere they want to? The smell of urine was _very_ strong! Once we got to the charming main street, I stopped worrying about bums. The problem was horses. The gutters were literally running with horse ****. And it occurred to me: This is probably how all cities smelled before the motor car arrived to remove the horse pollution. Prior to the advent of motor vehicles it was estimated that there were 100,000 to 200,000 horses employed in New York City. At an average of, say 30 lbs of feces and perhaps 2 gallons of urine we are talking about, say 150,000 X 2 gallons or 300,000 gallons of urine and 2,250 tons of manure a day. Of course, there was a whole industry engaged in keeping New York clean but given that a large wagon, similar to the famous "Conestoga wagon" could carry about 6 tons and was pulled by a 4 to 6 horse team... well, 2250/6 X 6 X 30 lbs, etc. Strange as it may seem today the advent of the internal combustion engine was hailed as an "environmental savior." -- Cheers, John B. |
#87
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FLU
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:26:53 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 11/29/2017 8:28 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:18:13 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/29/2017 1:22 PM, Joerg wrote: It is correct that it is almost a bedroom community though we do have a business park right in the village. Airplane noise, yes, but a Cessna 172 purring off into the distance is something different than the din of traffic and other noise in a large city. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDWZkXjDYsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECGCoo3Ogxg Again, false dichotomy. You pretend the only choices are the din of a dense mega-city vs. a neighborhood so quiet you can hear the mountain lions tiptoeing by. My ride today was 47 miles. I was passed by maybe 100 cars the entire time, most of those because I wandered around some old suburbs at the end rather than riding directly home. There were several five mile stretches where no cars passed me at all. Yet if I'd chosen to ride northwest instead of southeast, I could have ridden through two decent sized cities and their government buildings, libraries, restaurants, entertainment venues, shopping malls and more. And since I know all the roads and streets, including the quiet ones, traffic would have been very easy for me to handle. I thank God I'm not so timid as to be afraid to ride the roads. Ohooo... but you must be some sort of daredevil. Why I've even heard that you often ride a bicycle without even the most basic safety feature, the bicycle helmet. There is that rumor! ;-) One assumes that your new signature block will read "Fearless Frank" :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#88
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FLU
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 14:38:31 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 05:50:19 -0000 (UTC), dave wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:15:59 +0700, John B. wrote: epic snip ... No two weeks vacation either, you got to get the plowing done and the garden in or there won't be anything to eat next winter. Hint: Agricultural things have progressed quite well since you were a kid. Nowadays they have GPS controlled combines which can be operated by staff and not only the owner of the farm. Sure. Combine harvesting has been going on even longer then I've been around and they are expensive, which is why you seldom see one in the normal farmer's inventory. But what you don't think about is that to be economical combine harvesting can only be used in large fields that are relatively flat have straight boundaries. It isn't effective in fields that are irregular in shape or are not relatively flat. Have you read " The Grapes of Wrath"? Certainly. It was a lot of years ago but I don't remember anything about Combine Harvesters. I remember that the harvests had failed and everyone left for California. The harvests were down. But the main focus was the industrialisation of farming and people being run off the land by banks buying up small farms. These were then joined together into easily tractorable long straight lines. -- davethedave |
#89
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FLU
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:44:55 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote: On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:01:55 +0700, John B. wrote: The radio programs advertising animal feed is obviously not germane when discussing your living accommodations. Not to mention that the vast majority of the horses in the United States are pets -- horse feed in the supermarket is a sure sign that you are *not* in farming country. Back when we had horses I never saw horse feed in a sack small enough that you could carry it out of the supermarket :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#90
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FLU
On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:19:20 -0000 (UTC), dave
wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 14:38:31 +0700, John B. wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 05:50:19 -0000 (UTC), dave wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:15:59 +0700, John B. wrote: epic snip ... No two weeks vacation either, you got to get the plowing done and the garden in or there won't be anything to eat next winter. Hint: Agricultural things have progressed quite well since you were a kid. Nowadays they have GPS controlled combines which can be operated by staff and not only the owner of the farm. Sure. Combine harvesting has been going on even longer then I've been around and they are expensive, which is why you seldom see one in the normal farmer's inventory. But what you don't think about is that to be economical combine harvesting can only be used in large fields that are relatively flat have straight boundaries. It isn't effective in fields that are irregular in shape or are not relatively flat. Have you read " The Grapes of Wrath"? Certainly. It was a lot of years ago but I don't remember anything about Combine Harvesters. I remember that the harvests had failed and everyone left for California. The harvests were down. But the main focus was the industrialisation of farming and people being run off the land by banks buying up small farms. These were then joined together into easily tractorable long straight lines. Not to get into a big argument but I seem to remember that the main point in the first part of the book was the fact that the rains had failed and turned that part of the country into a "dust bowl" and that there was no work, no food, no nothing. And yes, people lost their land when they didn't pay their bills, but that was hardly a practice restricted to Oklahoma. But worse, as the farmers defaulted on their loans banks failed at a high rate and there was simply no credit available at all. But yes, there were underlying reasons. The common use of tractors allowed plowing much wider areas than a man and a horse could plow, tractors were far more powerful and allowed deep plowing which destroyed the deep root structures of the prairie grasses but the basic reason was a series of droughts during most of the 1930's. It created what was quite literally a dust bowl with 75% of the top soil blown away. Over an area of 100,000,000 acres. It also triggered (I believe) the largest immigration in U.S. history with something like approximately 3.5 million people moved out of the area in the period from approximately 1930 - 1940. -- Cheers, John B. |
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