Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

Look in this thread, and you will find multiple occasions where
"DirtRoadie" altered quotations - I pointed out several of them in
responses. No one else objects to this behavior, except for Phil W. Lee.


DR's crime of falsifying quotes is unquestionable.

But for the enjoyment of his parody and that it was clear that that was
his intent, I will pardon him this time.

JS.

On Dec 13, 4:36*pm, RobertH wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:59 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:

If there is oncoming traffic, and the trucker decides there's enough
room to squeeze by in your lane because you're at far right, you're in
a dangerous situation. *You'll have a truck literally brushing your
left shoulder. *You can't get more clearance by riding to the right;
that's likely to make you fall, and in that situation it could kill
you.

When Frank writes a paragraph like this, I paraphras it as "Danger!"
Danger!"

Actually this is about the most hysterical sounding warning that
anybody has written in the "Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009" thread or
threadlets.

Robert, IIRC you never did answer the question I asked. But I take it
from the above that if you were in a 10 foot lane being passed by an
8.5 foot truck, you would hug the curb. Is that correct?

Is that what you consider taking responsibility for your own safety?

- Frank Krygowski

On Dec 13, 5:55*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/13/2010 7:40 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:





On 12/11/2010 4:23 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 12/11/2010 12:29 PM, Duane Hebert wrote:
"T m Sherm nT _ " wrote in
...
On 12/11/2010 8:29 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:
"T?m Sherm?n? " wrote in
...
On 12/10/2010 11:28 PM, DirtRoadie WHO? ANONYMOUSLY SNIPES:

Hmm. Given your fears, I suppose Quebec must have special Ground
Meat
Crews to scrape away all the dead cyclists!

- Frank Krygowski

**** you.

+1
DR

Good to see the maturity and civility of the group being preserved..

/sarcasm

Calling me a coward is bad enough but making light
of the dead cyclists here, some of which were friends
and all of which were persons, was a bit much.

And lying/libel is not a bit much?

Are you talking to me?

No, it is a different Frank-Basher™ who hides behind a pseudonym while
lying and committing libel by falsifying quotations. However, for some
reason, this immoral behavior draws much less ire than Frank Krygowski's
above board argumentation.

Sorry Tom but just because Frank hasn't used profanity doesn't make
his personal attacks any less irksome. As to your reference to DR,
I'm not exactly sure which of his comments you're referring to.

Look in this thread, and you will find multiple occasions where
"DirtRoadie" altered quotations - I pointed out several of them in
responses. *No one else objects to this behavior, except for Phil W. Lee.

Bingo!
Tom has no grasp of parody (and does not even understand the word
"libel" which he erroneously uses frequently) and has taken it upon
himself to rid the world of his perceived moral outrage. He stalks the
"perpetrators" in support of his role model for truth and virtue,
Frank Krygowski.

Look through this thread for any of my posts followed by a post from
Tom. See if you see ANY suggestion of Tom offering substantive
discussion.
Some say he has a sense of humor. Perhaps he does, but I think he's
just a fat angry old man with nothing to do but complain about how
poorly the world treats him and those like him.

DR

On Dec 13, 5:51*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°

It IS astonishing that [Frank] just doesn't get that.
Poor Frank! He's so misunderstood!
But maybe not:

* * * *http://anse.rs/gqlwK

Again, the anonymous troll who shows up insulting others and falsifying
quotes, complains about the behavior of others.

Tom, it's so nice that you have found a purpose in life.
But it's a shame that you can provide nothing of substance other than
your constant mutterings to yourself about the same sad subject.

In any case thanks for providing the opportunity the reiterate what I
have already said in case it was missed by anyone.

DR

On 12/13/2010 8:55 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 13, 4:36 pm, wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:59 am, Frank wrote:

If there is oncoming traffic, and the trucker decides there's enough
room to squeeze by in your lane because you're at far right, you're in
a dangerous situation. You'll have a truck literally brushing your
left shoulder. You can't get more clearance by riding to the right;
that's likely to make you fall, and in that situation it could kill
you.

When Frank writes a paragraph like this, I paraphras it as "Danger!"
Danger!"

Actually this is about the most hysterical sounding warning that
anybody has written in the "Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009" thread or
threadlets.

Robert, IIRC you never did answer the question I asked. But I take it
from the above that if you were in a 10 foot lane being passed by an
8.5 foot truck, you would hug the curb. Is that correct?
[...]

http://www.labournet.net/other/0503/gispec5.jpg

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 12/13/2010 8:59 PM, DirtRoadie WHO? ANONYMOUSLY SNIPES:
On Dec 13, 5:55 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/13/2010 7:40 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

On 12/11/2010 4:23 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 12/11/2010 12:29 PM, Duane Hebert wrote:
"T m Sherm nT " wrote in
...
On 12/11/2010 8:29 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:
"T?m Sherm?n? " wrote in
...
On 12/10/2010 11:28 PM, DirtRoadie WHO? ANONYMOUSLY SNIPES:

Hmm. Given your fears, I suppose Quebec must have special Ground
Meat
Crews to scrape away all the dead cyclists!

- Frank Krygowski

**** you.

+1
DR

Good to see the maturity and civility of the group being preserved.

/sarcasm

Calling me a coward is bad enough but making light
of the dead cyclists here, some of which were friends
and all of which were persons, was a bit much.

And lying/libel is not a bit much?

Are you talking to me?

No, it is a different Frank-Basher™ who hides behind a pseudonym while
lying and committing libel by falsifying quotations. However, for some
reason, this immoral behavior draws much less ire than Frank Krygowski's
above board argumentation.

Sorry Tom but just because Frank hasn't used profanity doesn't make
his personal attacks any less irksome. As to your reference to DR,
I'm not exactly sure which of his comments you're referring to.

Look in this thread, and you will find multiple occasions where
"DirtRoadie" altered quotations - I pointed out several of them in
responses. No one else objects to this behavior, except for Phil W. Lee.

Bingo!
Tom has no grasp of parody (and does not even understand the word
"libel" which he erroneously uses frequently) and has taken it upon
himself to rid the world of his perceived moral outrage. He stalks the
"perpetrators" in support of his role model for truth and virtue,
Frank Krygowski.

In the US, parody is libel unless it is of a public figure. No public
figures post to rec.bicycles.tech (at least under their real names).

Look through this thread for any of my posts followed by a post from
Tom. See if you see ANY suggestion of Tom offering substantive
discussion.

"DirtRoadie" does not make posts which deserve substantive discussion in
response.

Some say he has a sense of humor. Perhaps he does, but I think he's
just a fat angry old man with nothing to do but complain about how
poorly the world treats him and those like him.

You are confusing me with Ed Dolan.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Dec 13, 5:22*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Dec 13, 9:59*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:

So Jay, if you have an 8.5 foot truck (as I postulated) and you "hold
your line," where is your line? *Are you riding 6" from the dropoff?
One foot? *Two feet, or what? * And how close do wide trucks pass?

I ride as far right as is practicable, meaning where there are no
giant pot holes (not many on that road), gravel, etc.

Here's the problem: I ride as far right as practicable, as
specifically defined in Ohio law. I've explained where that is. In a
ten foot lane with an 8.5 foot truck passing, that would be near lane
center.

You would ride where? Maybe a foot from the right? Two feet?

I certainly don't make a point of "controlling
traffic" on that road.

OK. But do you realize every legitimate, recognized "how to ride"
teaching resource seems to differ with you?


OTOH, there is one ex-country road near here that now handles lots of
suburban "short cut" traffic. *Because of terrain, the county hasn't
been able to widen it. *So it's narrow, 35 mph and usually busy. *I
avoid it when I can, which is almost always. *The last time I had to
ride it, since there was NO safe way to allow passing, I pulled off to
let traffic by whenever it was reasonable.

I ride on those kinds of roads all the time because of our idiotic
development of suburbs without developing infrastructure. *I play it
by ear. *The problem is lack of sight lines. *You ride out in the
middle of the road on the other side of a blind turn, and you get
whacked -- there is no room for correction by the cars.

Not in real life, Jay. You're echoing Duane's worries about the road
he showed in the street view - the one that looked like our metro
park, or like the ones my club members and I seek out for rides in the
country.

Super-curvy roads have lower speed limits, both legally and
practically. Motorists can't drive very fast, and the sharper the
curve, the slower they have to drive. The speed differential between
a bike and a car decreases, which gives the motorist more time to
respond to the cyclist's presence. (And incidentally, if it's a bend
to the right, the cyclist is visible sooner when he's further left.)

I've spent lots of time driving and noting when I would be able to see
a cyclist on the road. Try it.

But let's remember, at least in Ohio, I _do_ have a right to ride that
road, and I _do_ have a specific right to ride far enough out to
prevent unsafe passing. * To me, doing so comes under the heading of
"taking responsibility for my own safety."

It sometimes comes under the heading of "hall monitor," too.

Can you find any book, any reference on proper riding, that does NOT
say to take the lane in that situation? Can you find one that says
"Ride as close to the edge as you can"?

- Frank Krygowski

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 12/13/2010 8:55 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 13, 4:36 pm, wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:59 am, Frank wrote:

If there is oncoming traffic, and the trucker decides there's enough
room to squeeze by in your lane because you're at far right, you're in
a dangerous situation. You'll have a truck literally brushing your
left shoulder. You can't get more clearance by riding to the right;
that's likely to make you fall, and in that situation it could kill
you.

When Frank writes a paragraph like this, I paraphras it as "Danger!"
Danger!"

Actually this is about the most hysterical sounding warning that
anybody has written in the "Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009" thread or
threadlets.

Robert, IIRC you never did answer the question I asked. But I take it
from the above that if you were in a 10 foot lane being passed by an
8.5 foot truck, you would hug the curb. Is that correct?
[...]

http://www.labournet.net/other/0503/gispec5.jpg


You civil engineers invited that, having built so many targets.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Dec 13, 8:18*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:

Some say he has a sense of humor. Perhaps he does, but I think he's
just a fat angry old man with nothing to do but complain about how
poorly the world treats him and those like him.

You are confusing me with Ed Dolan.

Perhaps. But probably not. I have never heard him whine about how
poorly the world treats him and he has never stalked me.

DR

On Dec 13, 8:31*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

It sometimes comes under the heading of "hall monitor," too.

Can you find any book, any reference on proper riding, that does NOT
say to take the lane in that situation? *


Yes, Frank all books pretty much say the same thing (wink, wink).
Here's one excerpt:
"If you are obsessed with 'hall monitor syndrome' take the lane until
your symptoms subside. If your symptoms last more than four hours,
seek psychiatric help."

Can you find one that says
"Ride as close to the edge as you can"?

And why would that be relevant to Jay? He never said that. Why would
you even suggest that he said that? Why is that relevant to you?
Oh never mind. http://anse.rs/gqlwK
And in any case, Jay is probably old enough and experienced enough to
make such decisions without referring to a book. And if you are still
relying solely on books, you have no business telling anyone here how
to ride.

DR