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#1601
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 23, 12:13*pm, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/23/2010 2:00 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Dec 22, 10:01 pm, Frank *wrote: On Dec 23, 12:41 am, *wrote: On Dec 22, 9:41 pm, Frank *wrote: If you're responding to me, you'd do better to discuss what I've said, rather than what "some" have said. *And if you review, I've said I do share wide lanes, even though I've seen benefits to being further left. Sounds pretty wishy washy all the sudden. :-) *Really? *Compared to you? Robert, though this entire discussion, I'm the one who has been giving almost all numbers. *You and most others have been saying just "It depends," usually with no further explanation. *And I see you've ignored my last repeat request: *"To keep it simple, let's review the 8.5' truck trying to get by in a 10' lane. *Where do you ride, again?" In the street depicted in the video and graphic, where would you ride? If you're talking about the video athttp://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/11/29/helping-motorists-with... I'd probably be at lane center. *If it is ten feet wide (which I suspect) that would put me at about 5 feet. *As the first car and the school bus clearly show, there's not enough lane width to safely share. Now your turn. *Where would you ride in that lane? As far right as is practicable. *I don't see any danger of unsafe passing. *In fact, no one did pass unsafely, even when the rider was far right. Three open lanes with light traffic does not spell danger to me. Yeah that's the impression that I got as well. *3 open lanes with no traffic. This is a fair and realistic approach to narrow roads: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSVwhLMjBk This is typical of the type of road that I ride for fun. Twisty, narrow but not much traffic. *Even some of the obstacles look familiar. No other cyclists though. I tend to ride pretty much like the cyclist there under those conditions. *Move over and let them pass when I can. I like that better than having them behind me anyway. Ditto. Very familiar scenarios. However, I wouldn't be worrying too much about the formality of signaling when coming to a stop sign. Note the double yellow line which IIRC has not been discussed here among "it depends" factors. But, yes, staying to the right on the uphills, using the lane going down when moving faster, presumably at the speed of traffic anyhow. When I think of "safe passing" I think of exactly what is shown - the significance of oncoming traffic, not the distinction between whether the passing vehicle is 2.1 or 4.7 feet away from the cyclist. Perhaps what stands out in the video is the cooperative nature of the riding, working with and communicating with following drivers via hand signals as appropriate and helping them know when the road is clear ahead. It is not uncommon for a cyclist to be able to see farther ahead than a following driver can. Krygowski has never mentioned anything beyond his narrow minded "taking control" and dictating to them. A "road hog" mentality that is of little value to anyone. He did at some point conceded that "it depends" but nonetheless cannot fully embrace that concept. DR |
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#1602
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 23, 12:20 pm, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/23/2010 3:08 PM, Dan O wrote: On Dec 23, 10:29 am, Frank wrote: On Dec 23, 1:10 pm, Duane H wrote: On 12/23/2010 12:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: Seems you're pretending to know my thoughts, despite my statements like "And while there are times I'll share a 12 foot lane..." I've also stated that there are lanes I'll share with a small car, but not with a large truck. I've stated that we have some 15 foot lanes here, which I always share. I think you need to take notes. How do you "control the lane" when the truck driver is at the end of a red eye and lit up on Benzedrine? Duane, if that unlikely "Danger! Danger!" scenario scares you so much, you need to give up cycling. So you can't answer the question? The answer to the question is obvious: You ride in lane center. It works, despite your paranoia. Remember? 14 million miles ridden in Quebec between fatalities? And who the **** are you to tell someone whether or not they should ride a frigging bicycle? It's just advice. Take it or leave it. But in either case, riding a bike while whining about the danger is unseemly. PLEASE stop your fear mongering. It's not helping cyclists. "Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is... snip It doesn't work on me anymore. I'm not proud. (I am a jerk sometimes, too.) Even the exasperation has waned. I sincerely wish you free of this vitriol for your own good. Much more eloquent response than mine. Thanks. I have offered Frank the concise impolite response more than once. I've been actively trying to ignore this idiot but he has the ability to press buttons that I can't ignore. First it was his posting his anti helmet crap in threads about dead cyclist. Today it was his incredible arrogance at instructing a parent how to teach their child. My first encounter was making the mistake of mentioning the gnarly gouges in my hard shell helmet. Turned out I was not riding properly :-) But I think that this is part of his plan. He lives for his lording over lesser intelligences. If we ignore him, he has to find a way to get us back. If not, he'll go so far as to create a fictional character and post the same arguments. I have to try harder to ignore him. It burned me up until my immune system started catching up :-) snip |
#1603
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 23, 1:20*pm, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/23/2010 3:08 PM, Dan O wrote: On Dec 23, 10:29 am, Frank *wrote: On Dec 23, 1:10 pm, Duane H *wrote: On 12/23/2010 12:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: Seems you're pretending to know my thoughts, despite my statements like "And while there are times I'll share a 12 foot lane..." *I've also stated that there are lanes I'll share with a small car, but not with a large truck. *I've stated that we have some 15 foot lanes here, which I always share. I think you need to take notes. How do you "control the lane" when the truck driver is at the end of a red eye and lit up on Benzedrine? Duane, if that unlikely "Danger! *Danger!" scenario scares you so much, you need to give up cycling. So you can't answer the question? The answer to the question is obvious: *You ride in lane center. *It works, despite your paranoia. *Remember? *14 million miles ridden in Quebec between fatalities? And who the **** are you to tell someone whether or not they should ride a frigging bicycle? It's just advice. *Take it or leave it. But in either case, riding a bike while whining about the danger is unseemly. *PLEASE stop your fear mongering. *It's not helping cyclists. "Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle" People have egos. *You tactically employ the natural aversion (fear, if you will) of ridicule in a continuous, repetitious pattern intended to counter any suggestion contrary to your specific end. *You are far and away the most obsessed person here with influencing the opinion and actions of others. *You employ wild exaggeration and hyperbole to deride the most ridiculous interpretation that you can conjure of the offending message. *You disregard (omit without indication) points that you don't have a smarmy and/or supercilious put down for (often to the point of addressing only ancillary aspects of the message). You do all this in a way deliberately calculated to suppress the *person* by manipulating their natural fear of apprearing foolish (or frightened or incompetent or incurious or innumerate or... ) You deal with dissent by obsessively smearing **** all over it as much as you can. *You are bent on "instructing" everyone in the right proper way - *your* way - and seem incapable of recognizing different perspectives, respecting different lifestyles, and acknowledging the validity of different views. *We're just expressing our thoughts and opinions. *You are apparently on some kind of crusade, which wouldn't be so bad in itself, except that it's long gone perversely off the rails. It doesn't work on me anymore. *I'm not proud. *(I am a jerk sometimes, too.) *Even the exasperation has waned. *I sincerely wish you free of this vitriol for your own good. Much more eloquent response than mine. *Thanks. I've been actively trying to ignore this idiot but he has the ability to press buttons that I can't ignore. *First it was his posting his anti helmet crap in threads about dead cyclist. *Today it was his incredible arrogance at instructing a parent how to teach their child. But I think that this is part of his plan. *He lives for his lording over lesser intelligences. *If we ignore him, he has to find a way to get us back. *If not, he'll go so far as to create a fictional character and post the same arguments. I have to try harder to ignore him. Fortunately, he is back to ignoring me and he hasn't even bothered to tell me that he's ignoring me. All is right with the world. But think of it this way - Frank Krygowski is the class clown. He is recording all his lunacy for posterity. While the thought of him having kids or grandkids is scary, I relish the thought of his descendants looking back someday at the record he is leaving behind and wondering how an ancestor of theirs could be so far out of touch and so caught up in his own little fantasy world. It still remains a complete mystery what he might hope to accomplish by his "One Note Johnny" presentation and badgering of many people in this group. He should be very proud;-) DR |
#1604
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
"Dan O" wrote in message ... My first encounter was making the mistake of mentioning the gnarly gouges in my hard shell helmet. Turned out I was not riding properly :-) LOL. My first was when I commented to (Pete Cresswell I think) commisserating with an accident that he had that was similar to one that I just had. I made the mistake of saying that my helmet was dented but not my head. Turns out that I was misguided because it was only the additional width of the helmet that caused it to be dented. With no helmet my neck would have miraculously stopped my head from wipping to the pavement. But I think that this is part of his plan. He lives for his lording over lesser intelligences. If we ignore him, he has to find a way to get us back. If not, he'll go so far as to create a fictional character and post the same arguments. I have to try harder to ignore him. It burned me up until my immune system started catching up :-) I'm trying Bushmills at the moment. |
#1605
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 23, 2:00*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Dec 22, 10:01*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Dec 23, 12:41*am, RobertH wrote: On Dec 22, 9:41 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: If you're responding to me, you'd do better to discuss what I've said, rather than what "some" have said. *And if you review, I've said I do share wide lanes, even though I've seen benefits to being further left. Sounds pretty wishy washy all the sudden. :-) *Really? *Compared to you? Robert, though this entire discussion, I'm the one who has been giving almost all numbers. *You and most others have been saying just "It depends," usually with no further explanation. *And I see you've ignored my last repeat request: *"To keep it simple, let's review the 8.5' truck trying to get by in a 10' lane. *Where do you ride, again?" In the street depicted in the video and graphic, where would you ride? If you're talking about the video athttp://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/11/29/helping-motorists-with... I'd probably be at lane center. *If it is ten feet wide (which I suspect) that would put me at about 5 feet. *As the first car and the school bus clearly show, there's not enough lane width to safely share. Now your turn. *Where would you ride in that lane? As far right as is practicable. *I don't see any danger of unsafe passing. *In fact, no one did pass unsafely, even when the rider was far right. Three open lanes with light traffic does not spell danger to me. Actually, the rider never was at far right. The video illustrates the difference between riding in the right tire track or riding at lane center, or a bit further left. And it does seem like motorists sorted things out more quickly when the cyclist was further left. No? I don't like their title: "Lane Control vs. Right Tire Track." If you really wanted to see an alternative to lane control, you'd have to record the results of riding down the fog line. But I can see why the cyclist wouldn't want to try that, even if some posting here might. This is a fair and realistic approach to narrow roads:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSVwhLMjBk That's pretty good. There are a few times I'd be a bit further left than that rider. But again, I know cyclists who would be on the fog line whenever a car passed. I suppose we could ask everyone where they would ride in the lane at different time points in that video. Unfortunately, I doubt we'd get much more light on this subject. :-( Anyone interested can find more videos at http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/...ident-cyclist/ - Frank Krygowski |
#1606
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 23, 1:21*pm, Duane Hébert wrote:
You just got through telling someone that they shouldn't let their child wear a ski helmet. *Who the **** are you to do that? I did?? What was that exact quote? Seriously, you _do_ need to take notes! - Frank Krygowski |
#1607
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 23, 1:41*pm, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/23/2010 1:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Dec 23, 1:10 pm, Duane H *wrote: On 12/23/2010 12:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: Seems you're pretending to know my thoughts, despite my statements like "And while there are times I'll share a 12 foot lane..." *I've also stated that there are lanes I'll share with a small car, but not with a large truck. *I've stated that we have some 15 foot lanes here, which I always share. I think you need to take notes. How do you "control the lane" when the truck driver is at the end of a red eye and lit up on Benzedrine? Duane, if that unlikely "Danger! *Danger!" scenario scares you so much, you need to give up cycling. So you can't answer the question? The answer to the question is obvious: *You ride in lane center. *It works, despite your paranoia. *Remember? *14 million miles ridden in Quebec between fatalities? None of which can legally be ridden in the lane center unless there's an obstruction that forces them there. *Quebec Highway Code section 488. *Remember: 487. Subject to section 492, every person on a bicycle must ride on the extreme right-hand side of the roadway in the same direction as traffic, except where that space is obstructed or when he is about to make a left turn. and just for completeness, this is section 492 sighted above: 492. Where the public highway includes a cycle lane, persons riding a bicycle other than a power-assisted bicycle must use the cycle lane. So basically, La Belle Provence n'a pas te besoin ni tes id es. Ah well. You'll just have to let that sleep-deprived, drug-addled trucker skim by your shoulder, should he choose to. My sympathies, once again. Good luck! - Frank Krygowski |
#1608
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 23, 4:34*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 23, 2:00*pm, Jay Beattie wrote: On Dec 22, 10:01*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Dec 23, 12:41*am, RobertH wrote: On Dec 22, 9:41 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: If you're responding to me, you'd do better to discuss what I've said, rather than what "some" have said. *And if you review, I've said I do share wide lanes, even though I've seen benefits to being further left. Sounds pretty wishy washy all the sudden. :-) *Really? *Compared to you? Robert, though this entire discussion, I'm the one who has been giving almost all numbers. *You and most others have been saying just "It depends," usually with no further explanation. *And I see you've ignored my last repeat request: *"To keep it simple, let's review the 8.5' truck trying to get by in a 10' lane. *Where do you ride, again?" In the street depicted in the video and graphic, where would you ride? If you're talking about the video athttp://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/11/29/helping-motorists-with... I'd probably be at lane center. *If it is ten feet wide (which I suspect) that would put me at about 5 feet. *As the first car and the school bus clearly show, there's not enough lane width to safely share. Now your turn. *Where would you ride in that lane? As far right as is practicable. *I don't see any danger of unsafe passing. *In fact, no one did pass unsafely, even when the rider was far right. Three open lanes with light traffic does not spell danger to me. Actually, the rider never was at far right. *The video illustrates the difference between riding in the right tire track or riding at lane center, or a bit further left. *And it does seem like motorists sorted things out more quickly when the cyclist was further left. *No? I don't like their title: *"Lane Control vs. Right Tire Track." *If you really wanted to see an alternative to lane control, you'd have to record the results of riding down the fog line. *But I can see why the cyclist wouldn't want to try that, even if some posting here might. This is a fair and realistic approach to narrow roads:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSVwhLMjBk That's pretty good. *There are a few times I'd be a bit further left than that rider. *But again, I know cyclists who would be on the fog line whenever a car passed. I suppose we could ask everyone where they would ride in the lane at different time points in that video. *Unfortunately, I doubt we'd get much more light on this subject. *:-( Anyone interested can find more videos athttp://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/on-the-road/the-confident-cyclist/ - Frank Krygowski Hey, Frank! Who cares? Others are discussing, you're micromanaging. DR |
#1609
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On 12/23/2010 4:27 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:20 pm, Duane wrote: On 12/23/2010 3:08 PM, Dan O wrote: On Dec 23, 10:29 am, Frank wrote: On Dec 23, 1:10 pm, Duane H wrote: On 12/23/2010 12:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: Seems you're pretending to know my thoughts, despite my statements like "And while there are times I'll share a 12 foot lane..." I've also stated that there are lanes I'll share with a small car, but not with a large truck. I've stated that we have some 15 foot lanes here, which I always share. I think you need to take notes. How do you "control the lane" when the truck driver is at the end of a red eye and lit up on Benzedrine? Duane, if that unlikely "Danger! Danger!" scenario scares you so much, you need to give up cycling. So you can't answer the question? The answer to the question is obvious: You ride in lane center. It works, despite your paranoia. Remember? 14 million miles ridden in Quebec between fatalities? And who the **** are you to tell someone whether or not they should ride a frigging bicycle? It's just advice. Take it or leave it. But in either case, riding a bike while whining about the danger is unseemly. PLEASE stop your fear mongering. It's not helping cyclists. "Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle" People have egos. You tactically employ the natural aversion (fear, if you will) of ridicule in a continuous, repetitious pattern intended to counter any suggestion contrary to your specific end. You are far and away the most obsessed person here with influencing the opinion and actions of others. You employ wild exaggeration and hyperbole to deride the most ridiculous interpretation that you can conjure of the offending message. You disregard (omit without indication) points that you don't have a smarmy and/or supercilious put down for (often to the point of addressing only ancillary aspects of the message). You do all this in a way deliberately calculated to suppress the *person* by manipulating their natural fear of apprearing foolish (or frightened or incompetent or incurious or innumerate or... ) You deal with dissent by obsessively smearing **** all over it as much as you can. You are bent on "instructing" everyone in the right proper way - *your* way - and seem incapable of recognizing different perspectives, respecting different lifestyles, and acknowledging the validity of different views. We're just expressing our thoughts and opinions. You are apparently on some kind of crusade, which wouldn't be so bad in itself, except that it's long gone perversely off the rails. It doesn't work on me anymore. I'm not proud. (I am a jerk sometimes, too.) Even the exasperation has waned. I sincerely wish you free of this vitriol for your own good. Much more eloquent response than mine. Thanks. I've been actively trying to ignore this idiot but he has the ability to press buttons that I can't ignore. First it was his posting his anti helmet crap in threads about dead cyclist. Today it was his incredible arrogance at instructing a parent how to teach their child. But I think that this is part of his plan. He lives for his lording over lesser intelligences. If we ignore him, he has to find a way to get us back. If not, he'll go so far as to create a fictional character and post the same arguments. I have to try harder to ignore him. Fortunately, he is back to ignoring me and he hasn't even bothered to tell me that he's ignoring me. All is right with the world. But think of it this way - Frank Krygowski is the class clown. He is recording all his lunacy for posterity. While the thought of him having kids or grandkids is scary, I relish the thought of his descendants looking back someday at the record he is leaving behind and wondering how an ancestor of theirs could be so far out of touch and so caught up in his own little fantasy world. It still remains a complete mystery what he might hope to accomplish by his "One Note Johnny" presentation and badgering of many people in this group. He should be very proud;-) DR Now we have the gang together congratulating each other. -- Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
#1610
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
Now we have the gang together congratulating each other. And Tom, as usual, not contributing anything of worth. JS |
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