Seoul Cycle Design Competition Winner

In article ,
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° " wrote:

On 12/10/2010 11:35 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/9/2010 9:11 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Michael wrote:

In ,
Tºm Shermªnâ≥¢ " wrote:

On 12/5/2010 12:06 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
TÃâ‰*ºm ShermÃâ‰*ªnââ•ı¢ Ãâ‰*°_Ãâ‰*°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$souths lope.net" wrote:

On 12/1/2010 8:48 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 11/29/2010 6:17 PM, James wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:55 am, TÃ∞â•˚Ãâ‰*ºm ShermÃ∞â•˚Ãâ‰*ªnÃ∞¢âââ‰*¬zË ΩÃâ‰*¢ Ã∞â•˚Ãâ‰*°_Ã∞â•˚Ãâ‰*°""twsh ermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:

If new persons older than their early to mid 20's are to be attracted to
cycling and stick to it in significant numbers, something more
comfortable than a narrow saddle and/or drop bars is needed.

They give at least three possible hand positions while seated, and the
hoods are excellent for use out of the seat.

Most people I've seen are uncomfortable with straight bars and their
variants, and start adding bar ends for extra hand position
flexibility - still coming short of the variety offered by drop bars.

The individual is at liberty to have the bars moved up or down and
closer or further away. The drop bars don't inhibit certain
locations.

They are made in a variety of widths.

What is uncomfortable about drop bars?

JS.

Well, aside from the hand numbness and neck strain, nothing really I guess.
~

vi?

If your back hurts and your neck hurts,
you are not pedaling hard enough.

How is the newer rider going to maintain hard pedaling until he/she gets
into shape? What about times when hard pedaling may not be appropriate?

Who said it was going to be easy?
Buy if Buick Lucerne and ditch
the bicycle if it hurts that much.

So Mr. Press is an elitist who does not want to expand the number of
cyclists?

Argumentum ad hominem and two unwarranted assumptions.

No reply.


Why reply to an unresponsive non-answer?

Why reply at all?

In all this time you did not address

"If your back hurts and your neck hurts,
you are not pedaling hard enough."

and you did not address

"Argumentum ad hominem and two unwarranted assumptions."

I will not follow your blind urls. If you can address
what I say then do so. So far you proved yourself unable to.

--
Michael Press

On 12/12/2010 9:04 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/10/2010 11:35 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/9/2010 9:11 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Michael wrote:

In ,
Tºm Shermªnâ≥¢ " wrote:

On 12/5/2010 12:06 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
TÃâ‰*ºm ShermÃâ‰*ªnââ•ı¢ Ãâ‰*°_Ãâ‰*°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$souths lope.net" wrote:

On 12/1/2010 8:48 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 11/29/2010 6:17 PM, James wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:55 am, TÃ∞â•˚Ãâ‰*ºm ShermÃ∞â•˚Ãâ‰*ªnÃ∞¢âââ‰*¬zË ΩÃâ‰*¢ Ã∞â•˚Ãâ‰*°_Ã∞â•˚Ãâ‰*°""twsh ermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:

If new persons older than their early to mid 20's are to be attracted to
cycling and stick to it in significant numbers, something more
comfortable than a narrow saddle and/or drop bars is needed.

They give at least three possible hand positions while seated, and the
hoods are excellent for use out of the seat.

Most people I've seen are uncomfortable with straight bars and their
variants, and start adding bar ends for extra hand position
flexibility - still coming short of the variety offered by drop bars.

The individual is at liberty to have the bars moved up or down and
closer or further away. The drop bars don't inhibit certain
locations.

They are made in a variety of widths.

What is uncomfortable about drop bars?

JS.

Well, aside from the hand numbness and neck strain, nothing really I guess.
~

vi?

If your back hurts and your neck hurts,
you are not pedaling hard enough.

How is the newer rider going to maintain hard pedaling until he/she gets
into shape? What about times when hard pedaling may not be appropriate?

Who said it was going to be easy?
Buy if Buick Lucerne and ditch
the bicycle if it hurts that much.

So Mr. Press is an elitist who does not want to expand the number of
cyclists?

Argumentum ad hominem and two unwarranted assumptions.

No reply.


Why reply to an unresponsive non-answer?

Why reply at all?

In all this time you did not address

"If your back hurts and your neck hurts,
you are not pedaling hard enough."

Pedaling hard all the time only works for experience riders who are used
to riding hard. Not a way to get more people to Ride Bike.

and you did not address

"Argumentum ad hominem and two unwarranted assumptions."

I will not follow your blind urls.

Which are?

If you can address
what I say then do so. So far you proved yourself unable to.


"Who said it was going to be easy?" - Implies that only those who are
tough enough to endure pain should Ride Bike, i.e. elitist. Same with
the snarky "Buy [a] Buick Lucerne and ditch the bicycle if it hurts that
much."

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 12/12/2010 3:55 PM, James Steward wrote:
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

butbutbut, the newbie is *not* used to riding a bicycle!!!


People should expect a little discomfort from a new activity. If I set
out to run 10,000m I would expect sore legs and feet. If I went kayaking
I would expect a numb ass, sore back, shoulders and arms.

"Little discomfort" does not describe how agonizing it can be for a
newer rider to sit on a conventional upright saddle for more than 20 or
30 minutes. And fingers that stay numb for more than a couple of
minutes are worrying in terms of potential nerve damage.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 12/12/2010 4:35 PM, James Steward wrote:
Duane Hebert wrote:
"James" wrote in message
...
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

Why do upright riders need padded gloves, multiple hand positions,
and spend time riding hands-off while wringing their hands to bring
back feeling and/or to relieve cramps?
I don't wear gloves, not even for 200km Audax events or 200+km road
races.

I wear gloves since I saw a buddy with no skin on his hands after
going over the bars.

BTDT.

No gloves = good incentive to not put your hands out. Tuck your head and
learn to roll. Less chance of a broken collar bone.


Did I ever mention that it is almost impossible to go over the bars on a
'bent?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 12/12/2010 4:35 PM, James Steward wrote:
Duane Hebert wrote:
"James" wrote in message
...
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

Why do upright riders need padded gloves, multiple hand positions,
and spend time riding hands-off while wringing their hands to bring
back feeling and/or to relieve cramps?
I don't wear gloves, not even for 200km Audax events or 200+km road
races.

I wear gloves since I saw a buddy with no skin on his hands after
going over the bars.

BTDT.

No gloves = good incentive to not put your hands out. Tuck your head and
learn to roll. Less chance of a broken collar bone.


Did I ever mention that it is almost impossible to go over the bars on a
'bent?


I'm sure it is.

"Like the moment when the brakes lock
And you slide towards the big truck
Oh no
You stretch the frozen moments with your fear
And you'll never hear their voices
Daddy, daddy
And you'll never see their faces
You have no recourse to the law anymore"

(Pink Floyd)

JS.

On 12/13/2010 7:08 PM, James Steward wrote:
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 12/12/2010 4:35 PM, James Steward wrote:
Duane Hebert wrote:
"James" wrote in message
...
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

Why do upright riders need padded gloves, multiple hand positions,
and spend time riding hands-off while wringing their hands to bring
back feeling and/or to relieve cramps?
I don't wear gloves, not even for 200km Audax events or 200+km road
races.

I wear gloves since I saw a buddy with no skin on his hands after
going over the bars.

BTDT.

No gloves = good incentive to not put your hands out. Tuck your head and
learn to roll. Less chance of a broken collar bone.


Did I ever mention that it is almost impossible to go over the bars on
a 'bent?


I'm sure it is.

"Like the moment when the brakes lock
And you slide towards the big truck
Oh no
You stretch the frozen moments with your fear
And you'll never hear their voices
Daddy, daddy
And you'll never see their faces
You have no recourse to the law anymore"

(Pink Floyd)

"Twelve o'clock, I gotta rock
There's a truck ahead, lights starin' at my eyes
Oh my God, no time to turn
I got to laugh 'cause I know I'm gonna die"

(Kiss)

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Dec 14, 12:42*am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/12/2010 4:35 PM, James Steward wrote:



Duane Hebert wrote:
"James" wrote in message
...
T m Sherm n _ wrote:

Why do upright riders need padded gloves, multiple hand positions,
and spend time riding hands-off while wringing their hands to bring
back feeling and/or to relieve cramps?
I don't wear gloves, not even for 200km Audax events or 200+km road
races.

I wear gloves since I saw a buddy with no skin on his hands after
going over the bars.

BTDT.

No gloves = good incentive to not put your hands out. Tuck your head and
learn to roll. Less chance of a broken collar bone.

Did I ever mention that it is almost impossible to go over the bars on a
'bent?


What, even when you've got your hands stuffed up your arse because
they're cold?


--
T m Sherm n - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 12/13/2010 8:20 PM, thirty-six aka Trevor Jeffery wrote:
On Dec 14, 12:42 am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/12/2010 4:35 PM, James Steward wrote:



Duane Hebert wrote:
wrote in message
...
T m Sherm n _ wrote:

Why do upright riders need padded gloves, multiple hand positions,
and spend time riding hands-off while wringing their hands to bring
back feeling and/or to relieve cramps?
I don't wear gloves, not even for 200km Audax events or 200+km road
races.

I wear gloves since I saw a buddy with no skin on his hands after
going over the bars.

BTDT.

No gloves = good incentive to not put your hands out. Tuck your head and
learn to roll. Less chance of a broken collar bone.

Did I ever mention that it is almost impossible to go over the bars on a
'bent?


What, even when you've got your hands stuffed up your arse because
they're cold?

I have sat on one hand at a time while riding for warmth - try that on
an upright!

In the recumbent position, the rider's legs are in a position to resist
braking forces, unlike an upright. I have several bikes with hinge
mounted handlebars to allow easier mounting and dismounting by simply
pushing the bars forward, and have no problems with moving forward while
braking. My trike has side sticks for steering, yet I can lock up both
front wheels without moving forward since my legs brace me.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Dec 14, 2:33*am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/13/2010 8:20 PM, thirty-six aka Trevor Jeffery wrote:



On Dec 14, 12:42 am, T m Sherm n _ ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" *wrote:
On 12/12/2010 4:35 PM, James Steward wrote:

Duane Hebert wrote:
*wrote in message
...
T m Sherm n _ *wrote:

Why do upright riders need padded gloves, multiple hand positions,
and spend time riding hands-off while wringing their hands to bring
back feeling and/or to relieve cramps?
I don't wear gloves, not even for 200km Audax events or 200+km road
races.

I wear gloves since I saw a buddy with no skin on his hands after
going over the bars.

BTDT.

No gloves = good incentive to not put your hands out. Tuck your head and
learn to roll. Less chance of a broken collar bone.

Did I ever mention that it is almost impossible to go over the bars on a
'bent?

What, even when you've got your hands stuffed up your arse because
they're cold?

I have sat on one hand at a time while riding for warmth - try that on
an upright!

In the recumbent position, the rider's legs are in a position to resist
braking forces, unlike an upright. *I have several bikes with hinge
mounted handlebars to allow easier mounting and dismounting by simply
pushing the bars forward, and have no problems with moving forward while
braking. *My trike has side sticks for steering, yet I can lock up both
front wheels without moving forward since my legs brace me.

--
T m Sherm n - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

But I heard the whacky backy makes your legs weak, what if you take
too much again, arn't you scared of rolling the trike?

In article ,
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° " wrote:

On 12/12/2010 9:04 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/10/2010 11:35 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/9/2010 9:11 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Michael wrote:

In ,
Tºm Shermªnâ≥¢ " wrote:

On 12/5/2010 12:06 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
TÃâ‰*ºm ShermÃâ‰*ªnââ•ı¢ Ãâ‰*°_Ãâ‰*°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$souths lope.net" wrote:

On 12/1/2010 8:48 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 11/29/2010 6:17 PM, James wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:55 am, TÃ∞â•˚Ãâ‰*ºm ShermÃ∞â•˚Ãâ‰*ªnÃ∞¢âââ‰*¬zË ΩÃâ‰*¢ Ã∞â•˚Ãâ‰*°_Ã∞â•˚Ãâ‰*°""twsh ermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:

If new persons older than their early to mid 20's are to be attracted to
cycling and stick to it in significant numbers, something more
comfortable than a narrow saddle and/or drop bars is needed.

They give at least three possible hand positions while seated, and the
hoods are excellent for use out of the seat.

Most people I've seen are uncomfortable with straight bars and their
variants, and start adding bar ends for extra hand position
flexibility - still coming short of the variety offered by drop bars.

The individual is at liberty to have the bars moved up or down and
closer or further away. The drop bars don't inhibit certain
locations.

They are made in a variety of widths.

What is uncomfortable about drop bars?

JS.

Well, aside from the hand numbness and neck strain, nothing really I guess.
~

vi?

If your back hurts and your neck hurts,
you are not pedaling hard enough.

How is the newer rider going to maintain hard pedaling until he/she gets
into shape? What about times when hard pedaling may not be appropriate?

Who said it was going to be easy?
Buy if Buick Lucerne and ditch
the bicycle if it hurts that much.

So Mr. Press is an elitist who does not want to expand the number of
cyclists?

Argumentum ad hominem and two unwarranted assumptions.

No reply.


Why reply to an unresponsive non-answer?

Why reply at all?

In all this time you did not address

"If your back hurts and your neck hurts,
you are not pedaling hard enough."

Pedaling hard all the time only works for experience riders who are used
to riding hard.

What bicyclist does not prefer to be experienced?

Not a way to get more people to Ride Bike.

One of the unwarranted assumptions at work here.


and you did not address

"Argumentum ad hominem and two unwarranted assumptions."

I will not follow your blind urls.

Which are?

You know very well.


If you can address
what I say then do so. So far you proved yourself unable to.


"Who said it was going to be easy?" - Implies that only those who are
tough enough to endure pain should Ride Bike, i.e. elitist. Same with
the snarky "Buy [a] Buick Lucerne and ditch the bicycle if it hurts that
much."

What worth doing well is easy?
Who does not want to work hard at any undertaking?

--
Michael Press