Seoul Cycle Design Competition Winner

On Nov 27, 12:28*pm, Doc O'Leary
wrote:

*Most "comfort" innovations I see seem to be ways
to get people on a bike who don't really want to be biking.

i.e., to give a bicycle the attributes of a sofa, including, but not
limited to, the physical effort necessary to operate it.
DR

On 11/27/2010 1:28 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:

There is a big difference between making it a contact point for a
person's full weight as they lazily sit back and barely pedal, and it
being a contact point for a fraction of that weight for someone who is
really biking. .......


Except that it's not how typical (non-racing) people bicycle ride. Only
racing enthusiasts pretend that it's normal.

If you go look at photos of any typical street scenes from Amsterdam or
similar Nether-regions, you'll see pretty much everybody sitting fully
upright, resting all their torso weight right on top of their bicycle
saddles.
,,,,
Of course, as it has been pointed out--they rarely ride more than a few
miles at once, for most trips.

I don't disagree about control and handling at all but, for me at least,
that is not about weight on top of the seat. The first thing I thought
about when I saw noseless saddles was how much I actually *use* the side
of nose when I ride. ....


Trials bicylists don't seem to need seats at all to do a number of
things that I would bet you cannot do on your saddled bike.
~

On 11/27/2010 1:28 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:

There is a big difference between making it a contact point for a
person's full weight as they lazily sit back and barely pedal, and it
being a contact point for a fraction of that weight for someone who is
really biking. .......


Except that it's not how typical (non-racing) people bicycle ride. Only
racing enthusiasts pretend that it's normal.

If you go look at photos of any typical street scenes from Amsterdam or
similar Nether-regions, you'll see pretty much everybody sitting fully
upright, resting all their torso weight right on top of their bicycle
saddles.
,,,,
Of course, as it has been pointed out--they rarely ride more than a few
miles at once, for most trips.

I don't disagree about control and handling at all but, for me at least,
that is not about weight on top of the seat. The first thing I thought
about when I saw noseless saddles was how much I actually *use* the side
of nose when I ride. ....


Trials bicylists don't seem to need seats at all to do a number of
things that I would bet you cannot do on your saddled bike.
~

On Nov 27, 2:07 pm, DougC wrote:
On 11/27/2010 1:28 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:



There is a big difference between making it a contact point for a
person's full weight as they lazily sit back and barely pedal, and it
being a contact point for a fraction of that weight for someone who is
really biking. .......

Except that it's not how typical (non-racing) people bicycle ride. Only
racing enthusiasts pretend that it's normal.


I guess if I go through life getting these sudden urges in my loins to
pitch a bike over on its side and skid both wheels over some wet clay
as I start putting power to the back wheel again to get going the
other way that sort of qualifies me a racing enthusiast :-)

If you go look at photos of any typical street scenes from Amsterdam or
similar Nether-regions, you'll see pretty much everybody sitting fully
upright, resting all their torso weight right on top of their bicycle
saddles.
,,,,
Of course, as it has been pointed out--they rarely ride more than a few
miles at once, for most trips.


I do like the suspension seatpost (even if it is wiggly) and air
saddle on my short trips bike.

I don't disagree about control and handling at all but, for me at least,
that is not about weight on top of the seat. The first thing I thought
about when I saw noseless saddles was how much I actually *use* the side
of nose when I ride. ....

Trials bicylists don't seem to need seats at all to do a number of
things that I would bet you cannot do on your saddled bike.

I imagine a bent would be nice for cruising along - fast, too. And
while I do churn out the miles on my upright (good saddle, setup
dialed in, good clothes), it's the transition parts and off-road short-
cuts where you get light on the saddle and statt throwong the bike
around that get me off.

Dan O writes:

On Nov 27, 2:07 pm, DougC wrote:
On 11/27/2010 1:28 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:



There is a big difference between making it a contact point for a
person's full weight as they lazily sit back and barely pedal, and it
being a contact point for a fraction of that weight for someone who is
really biking. .......

Except that it's not how typical (non-racing) people bicycle ride. Only
racing enthusiasts pretend that it's normal.


I guess if I go through life getting these sudden urges in my loins to
pitch a bike over on its side and skid both wheels over some wet clay
as I start putting power to the back wheel again to get going the
other way that sort of qualifies me a racing enthusiast :-)

If you go look at photos of any typical street scenes from Amsterdam or
similar Nether-regions, you'll see pretty much everybody sitting fully
upright, resting all their torso weight right on top of their bicycle
saddles.
,,,,
Of course, as it has been pointed out--they rarely ride more than a few
miles at once, for most trips.


I do like the suspension seatpost (even if it is wiggly) and air
saddle on my short trips bike.

I don't disagree about control and handling at all but, for me at least,
that is not about weight on top of the seat. The first thing I thought
about when I saw noseless saddles was how much I actually *use* the side
of nose when I ride. ....

Trials bicylists don't seem to need seats at all to do a number of
things that I would bet you cannot do on your saddled bike.

I imagine a bent would be nice for cruising along - fast, too. And
while I do churn out the miles on my upright (good saddle, setup
dialed in, good clothes), it's the transition parts and off-road short-
cuts where you get light on the saddle and statt throwong the bike
around that get me off.

Where have you gone, Bill Baka

On 11/27/2010 1:28 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
In article
,
Dan wrote:

On Nov 26, 9:50 am, Doc
wrote:

Hint: bikes are powered by feet on the pedals, not by asses on the seat.


Rider weight is dynamicaly distibuted among the contact points
(pedals, handlebars, and saddle). The saddle is a key point of
contact for rider control and bike handling.
There is a big difference between making it a contact point for a
person's full weight as they lazily sit back and barely pedal, and it
being a contact point for a fraction of that weight for someone who is
really biking. Even if it is a*large* fraction of my weight that
remains on the seat (anyone have a good number for that?), the increase
in comfort seems great.[...]

Not a reasonable suggestion for the new, out of shape cyclist. Unless
of course, you want to limit the market out of elitism.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

*The first thing I thought
about when I saw noseless saddles was how much I actually *use* the side
of nose when I ride. *Most "comfort" innovations I see seem to be ways
to get people on a bike who don't really want to be biking.

Insular roadie rubbish.

Some of them just haven't learned the roadie paradigm of being barely
in the saddle even when appearing to sit down.

Some of them just want to enjoy their ride sitting down. There are
bikes specially designed for them and they sell vastly more units
around the world than road bikes do. Seats rather than saddles do well
on those bikes.

I had a Cheeko90 seat that was absolutely wonderful with my Trek Cyber
Nexus, a very fast bike that I rode no slower with the seat than with
a saddle, and on narrow, dangerous lanes too, so giving the lie to any
talk of 'control issues'.

Andre Jute
Logic and a broad outlook costs nothing

In article
,
Andre Jute wrote:

*The first thing I thought
about when I saw noseless saddles was how much I actually *use* the side
of nose when I ride. *Most "comfort" innovations I see seem to be ways
to get people on a bike who don't really want to be biking.

Insular roadie rubbish.

Instead of brewing senseless hatred, why not look at whether or not I'm
simply making points that are true?

Some of them just haven't learned the roadie paradigm of being barely
in the saddle even when appearing to sit down.

It's not about "learning" anything, it's about the fact that bikes are
powered by the pedals, not the saddles. If you're not putting your
weight where it would power your movement, *of course* you're putting it
somewhere else, and that changes the comfort equation.

Some of them just want to enjoy their ride sitting down. There are
bikes specially designed for them and they sell vastly more units
around the world than road bikes do. Seats rather than saddles do well
on those bikes.

Those don't appear to be the people complaining about comfort! The
people whining seems to be the ones who got a slick road bike because of
how it looked instead of because of how they ride.

I had a Cheeko90 seat that was absolutely wonderful with my Trek Cyber
Nexus, a very fast bike that I rode no slower with the seat than with
a saddle, and on narrow, dangerous lanes too, so giving the lie to any
talk of 'control issues'.

Your personal anecdote does not invalidate my personal anecdote. I ride
how I ride, and that involves standing on the pedals and touching the
side of my seat when I turn. People who ride a different way should not
expect to do so complaint-free on a similar setup. Is that so hard to
acknowledge?

--
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My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, astraweb.com,
and probably your server, too.

In article ,
=?windows-1252?Q?=22T=BAm_Sherm=AAn=99_=B0=5F=B0_--=3E=22?=
wrote:

Not a reasonable suggestion for the new, out of shape cyclist. Unless
of course, you want to limit the market out of elitism.

No limits, just pointing out that the rider needs to purchase a
realistic first bike, and be prepared to upgrade to a different setup
when their riding style changes. I think it's great that there are so
many different styles of bikes, and I think it's foolish that people
with an ego think they're better than a comfort bike.

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In article ,
DougC wrote:

On 11/27/2010 1:28 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:

There is a big difference between making it a contact point for a
person's full weight as they lazily sit back and barely pedal, and it
being a contact point for a fraction of that weight for someone who is
really biking. .......


Except that it's not how typical (non-racing) people bicycle ride. Only
racing enthusiasts pretend that it's normal.

Then typical people need to stop pretending they're "roadies" when they
buy their bikes. I'm not taking issue with comfort bikes, here. I'm
taking issue with people that buy the wrong bike and then complain that
it is uncomfortable.

If you go look at photos of any typical street scenes from Amsterdam or
similar Nether-regions, you'll see pretty much everybody sitting fully
upright, resting all their torso weight right on top of their bicycle
saddles.

And not complaining. If only people in the US were so sensible in their
choice of bikes. But, no; it's more important to look "cool" on road
bike or a tricked out mountain bike.

Trials bicylists don't seem to need seats at all to do a number of
things that I would bet you cannot do on your saddled bike.

I'm sure I *could* function fine without a saddle. My point was that I
*do* use the nose, and that removing it would change the way I ride, and
I might start foolishly complaining that bikes are uncomfortable. See
how it's all related?

--
iPhone apps that matter: http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, astraweb.com,
and probably your server, too.