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Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 12th 10, 08:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?

thirty-six wrote:

Chalo wrote:

thirty-six wrote:

Chalo wrote:

It
seems to me, though I have not made any repeatable observations, that
the squeegee effect of tread edges can displace enough of the traction-
impairing junk to have a significant effect on the tire's tendency to
slip.

The idea of a "squeegee effect" was discarded over forty years ago.
"Sponge effect" would be a more accurate description, the fin e cuts
acting as reservoirs for the displaced water from the areas of peak
pressure.


How would a the presence of a reservoir displace sand? *I'm not
talking about water, I'm talking about the stuff that makes some wet
conditions clearly more treacherous than others. *Tires tolerate water
nicely; it's lubricants and rolling elements that bring them down.


Simple, make sure the road cleaner has passed 15 minutes before you.
If you stick to the boards, you might get away without using the
pneumatics if you keep your speed down.

WATER IS A LUBRICANT!


Water is a lubricant that tire compounds are effectively designed to
tolerate.

You did not address the question I asked. How are tread channels
designed to move water, which is not a problem per se, supposed to do
anything about sand, silt, and viscous emulsions that combine with
water to create slippery conditions? And why wouldn't edges that
sweep or scour be more important than channels in that regard?

Chalo
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  #22  
Old November 12th 10, 08:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
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Posts: 10,049
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?

On Nov 12, 7:00*pm, Chalo wrote:
thirty-six wrote:

Chalo wrote:


thirty-six wrote:


Chalo wrote:


It
seems to me, though I have not made any repeatable observations, that
the squeegee effect of tread edges can displace enough of the traction-
impairing junk to have a significant effect on the tire's tendency to
slip.


The idea of a "squeegee effect" was discarded over forty years ago.
"Sponge effect" would be a more accurate description, the fin e cuts
acting as reservoirs for the displaced water from the areas of peak
pressure.


How would a the presence of a reservoir displace sand? *I'm not
talking about water, I'm talking about the stuff that makes some wet
conditions clearly more treacherous than others. *Tires tolerate water
nicely; it's lubricants and rolling elements that bring them down.


Simple, make sure the road cleaner has passed 15 minutes before you.
If you stick to the boards, you might get away without using the
pneumatics if you keep your speed down.


WATER IS A LUBRICANT!


Water is a lubricant that tire compounds are effectively designed to
tolerate.


Yes the treadss do seem not to rot in the presence of water, rubber is
generally known for that and it is not a specific feature of tyre
treads.


You did not address the question I asked. *


I missed it.

How are tread channels
designed to move water, which is not a problem per se, supposed to do
anything about sand, silt, and viscous emulsions that combine with
water to create slippery conditions?


Learn to pedal smoothly and they wont bother you so much. By viscous
I assume you mean wet clay, it's a bind, tread carefully. Unless
using knobblies there is little difference to tyre tread patterns here
and smooth pedalling is the way to go.

*And why wouldn't edges that
sweep or scour be more important than channels in that regard?


If you are riding on clay it usually goes a bit deeper than the tyre
tread even when it is just from the brickworks spewed out onto the
public road. The short sections to which one is presented of such
conditions do not in my eyes demand a specific tyre tread. I've not
experienced wet clay conditions throughout a cyclocross race but know
they did/do exist. I'm not aware of any tread design that would
improve grip well in these conditions and still permit a competitive
edge. The general problem is connected to tyre clearance as the mud
will bind the tyre to the frame. Grippy treads are slower and may
bind up quicker, the answer is to use a light profiled tread and pedal
smoothly.

Chalo


  #23  
Old November 16th 10, 06:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
kolldata
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Posts: 2,836
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?



http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&sa...89bde6c5cb5d6a
  #24  
Old November 16th 10, 07:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
kolldata
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Posts: 2,836
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?

On Nov 15, 9:55*pm, kolldata wrote:
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&sa...sy&hl=en&site=...


http://www.zappos.com/search/shoes/f...Popularity/asc

tap one - there's a 360 viewer
  #25  
Old November 16th 10, 07:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Shot from Guns
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Posts: 6
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 00:27:16 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote:

Aircraft tires are unlike any other
application, they're subjet to massive loads at high speeds.


Well true story the rear tire on my bicycle was subjected to a massive load
at high speeds once -- It was after a night at the bar capped off by a meal
at Taco Bell. I pedaled my ass off but didn't quite make it home in time.
  #26  
Old November 16th 10, 08:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
kolldata
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Posts: 2,836
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?

right. Wearing wearing: http://www.zappos.com/multiview/7598021/155

the body is a supportive net. the tread excellent climbing loose dirt/
sand hills/dunes. carries yards of debris into the truck.
Not good for the tennis court but I lost my stroke somewhere back in
1966 so....
Is the road a tennis court or sand dune ?

  #27  
Old November 16th 10, 10:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default CST Ciudad, was Might a little tire tread actually matter with alarge slick?

Chalo wrote:

[...] it might be worth trying a tire that is
basically a slick with a lot of edges cut into it, like the CST Ciudad
(a very nice tire in any other regard, by the way)


This comment was predicated on my having closely examined and mounted
a few of these tires at work, in 700x32 and 700x42 sizes. I now have
some direct riding experience with the CST Ciudad tire, and I'm no
longer willing to categorize it as a very nice tire.

Here's a picture of the tire in question:
http://images.bizrate.com/resize?sq=450&uid=1960984964

First, the positives: The CST Ciudad is a nice-looking tire, with a
decently cushioned ride characteristic, neutral handling qualities,
and good grip. The tire seems tough and does not puncture easily.

Now, the negatives: This tire is /really/ slow for something that
looks and handles more or less like a slick. I could not believe how
much more drag my bike incurred when I used 700x42 CST Ciudads to
replace my previous 700x38 Tioga City Slicker II tires.
http://www.qbei.jp/images/tioga/tioga_015990_L.jpg

The Ciudad is noisy, too. The sound it makes when rolling is almost
identical to the sound bike tires make when rolling across a patch of
aphid honeydew on the pavement under a pecan tree. (I don't want to
explain this in detail. Suffice to say there are some times of year
when my neighborhood's streets get sugar-coated.) But this tire is
not actually sticky, so it doesn't make sense to me that it sounds
like it's sticking to the pavement.

Anyway, I'm not disappointed enough to switch my new tires out, but
these are not the tires they appear to be. Soon I'll have another
bike up and running on 700x32 Ciudads (which I already bought and
installed a while back), so if my impression of that size is very
different, I'll come back with another report.

Chalo
  #28  
Old November 16th 10, 01:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]
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Posts: 2,312
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?

On 11/16/2010 12:00 AM, kolldata aka AVOGADRO V wrote:
On Nov 15, 9:55 pm, wrote:
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&sa...sy&hl=en&site=...


http://www.zappos.com/search/shoes/f...Popularity/asc

tap one - there's a 360 viewer


http://www.taradb2b.com/upload/product/SQSg2TeBhj_OTR-Solid.jpg

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #29  
Old November 16th 10, 01:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]
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Posts: 2,312
Default Might a little tire tread actually matter with a large slick?

On 11/16/2010 1:33 AM, kolldata aka AVOGADRO V wrote:
right. Wearing wearing: http://www.zappos.com/multiview/7598021/155

the body is a supportive net. the tread excellent climbing loose dirt/
sand hills/dunes. carries yards of debris into the truck.
Not good for the tennis court but I lost my stroke somewhere back in
1966 so....
Is the road a tennis court or sand dune ?

Or
http://www.benmeadows.com/images/xl/SOREL-Caribou-Insulated-Boots-BEN-_i_LBVG134195_01S.jpg

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #30  
Old November 16th 10, 03:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
landotter
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Posts: 6,336
Default CST Ciudad, was Might a little tire tread actually matterwith a large slick?

On Nov 16, 3:28*am, Chalo wrote:
Chalo wrote:

[...] it might be worth trying a tire that is
basically a slick with a lot of edges cut into it, like the CST Ciudad
(a very nice tire in any other regard, by the way)


This comment was predicated on my having closely examined and mounted
a few of these tires at work, in 700x32 and 700x42 sizes. *I now have
some direct riding experience with the CST Ciudad tire, and I'm no
longer willing to categorize it as a very nice tire.

Here's a picture of the tire in question:http://images.bizrate.com/resize?sq=450&uid=1960984964

First, the positives: *The CST Ciudad is a nice-looking tire, with a
decently cushioned ride characteristic, neutral handling qualities,
and good grip. *The tire seems tough and does not puncture easily.

Now, the negatives: *This tire is /really/ slow for something that
looks and handles more or less like a slick. *I could not believe how
much more drag my bike incurred when I used 700x42 CST Ciudads to
replace my previous 700x38 Tioga City Slicker II tires.http://www.qbei.jp/images/tioga/tioga_015990_L.jpg

The Ciudad is noisy, too. *The sound it makes when rolling is almost
identical to the sound bike tires make when rolling across a patch of
aphid honeydew on the pavement under a pecan tree. *(I don't want to
explain this in detail. *Suffice to say there are some times of year
when my neighborhood's streets get sugar-coated.) *But this tire is
not actually sticky, so it doesn't make sense to me that it sounds
like it's sticking to the pavement.

Anyway, I'm not disappointed enough to switch my new tires out, but
these are not the tires they appear to be. *Soon I'll have another
bike up and running on 700x32 Ciudads (which I already bought and
installed a while back), so if my impression of that size is very
different, I'll come back with another report.

Chalo


Thanks for the write up. I'd been looking at those. As I mentioned,
I've got the 47mm Conti Contacts right now. I didn't pay for them,
they were a take-off. D. loves 'em, uses the 37s on several of his
bikes. I think they're just an overpriced hose with "Continental"
stenciled onto them.

The Performance Gotham might be worth a try. It's the most hosey of
the Panaracer Pasela family, but still half a pound less per end than
what I've got. Once you rock a 900g tire, just about anything feels
like a race day tire. The Gotham may actually be cheaper on sale at
Nashformancego than cost +10 on the Panaracer branded version. Oy.
 




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