L'Alpe d'Huez the hardest climb ?

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

(Rik O'Shea) writes:

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

The guys who run altimetrias.com have attempted to quantify this
by calculating a climb's "coefficient of difficulty" using a formula
that takes into account climb length and gradient. Their site
catalogs climbs in Spain, but they do have a list of well-known
climbs in other countries:

http://www.altimetrias.com/htm/ComoCoefUK.htm

The toughest climb on this list is Angliru, with a difficulty of
507. The toughest Tour de France climb on the list is the Galibier +
Telegraphe combo, with a difficulty of 486. Mont Ventoux is 406,
while Alpe d'Huez is "only" 296.

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

Michael Fuhr wrote:
(Rik O'Shea) writes:


Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?


The guys who run altimetrias.com have attempted to quantify this
by calculating a climb's "coefficient of difficulty" using a formula
that takes into account climb length and gradient. Their site
catalogs climbs in Spain, but they do have a list of well-known
climbs in other countries:

http://www.altimetrias.com/htm/ComoCoefUK.htm

The toughest climb on this list is Angliru, with a difficulty of
507. The toughest Tour de France climb on the list is the Galibier +
Telegraphe combo, with a difficulty of 486. Mont Ventoux is 406,
while Alpe d'Huez is "only" 296.



Nice calculation.

This, however, doesn't address Roche's point, which is that it's the hardest
because of its location within the stage. He's assuming a typical epic
lead-in to the Alpe, such as Galabier + Croix de Fer.

Dan

Dan Connelly writes:

Michael Fuhr wrote:
(Rik O'Shea) writes:

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

The guys who run altimetrias.com have attempted to quantify this
by calculating a climb's "coefficient of difficulty" using a formula
that takes into account climb length and gradient. Their site
catalogs climbs in Spain, but they do have a list of well-known
climbs in other countries:

http://www.altimetrias.com/htm/ComoCoefUK.htm

[snip]

Nice calculation.

This, however, doesn't address Roche's point, which is that it's the hardest
because of its location within the stage. He's assuming a typical epic
lead-in to the Alpe, such as Galabier + Croix de Fer.

Summing up the coefficients of difficulty of the lead-in climbs
might give an estimate of how difficult the stage had been prior
to the final climb. Maybe the formula could be tweaked to take
into account "later in the stage," such as applying a multiplier
based on previous distance ridden and the sum of previous climbs'
difficulties. For example, Alpe d'Huez alone has a difficulty of
296, but based on what came before it you might use a multiplier
of, say 1.5, giving a weighted difficulty of 1.5 * 296 = 444.

Just a thought.

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

(Rik O'Shea) wrote in message . com...
Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?


I think there are a lot harder individual climbs than L'Alpe d'Huez in
France but they aren't used very often in the Tour - maybe because
they dont fit in the traditional route map.

Mount Ventoux
Le Mont Du Chat
Col de Cranon
Tourmalet
Telegraphe-Galibier
Col del La Bonette

These could be be considered harder than L'Alpe d'Huez. The Ventoux is
probably the hardest that's included on a regular basis.

The Aubisque, Joux Pane and maybe Hautacam are as hard as the L'Alpe.

I think the reason why the L'Alpe is considered so crucial is its
always the last Col of a stage plus the fact that it starts with a
bang as the first few kilometers are at over 10%. I think the gradient
on the sharp turns may act as a spring board for attacks. The last
couple of kilometres though it eases up to 3% and then flattens out.
Compare this to the Ventoux which finishes at 10% and "flattens" out
to 9%.

(Michael Fuhr) wrote in message ...
(Rik O'Shea) writes:

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

The guys who run altimetrias.com have attempted to quantify this
by calculating a climb's "coefficient of difficulty" using a formula
that takes into account climb length and gradient. Their site
catalogs climbs in Spain, but they do have a list of well-known
climbs in other countries:

http://www.altimetrias.com/htm/ComoCoefUK.htm

The toughest climb on this list is Angliru, with a difficulty of
507. The toughest Tour de France climb on the list is the Galibier +
Telegraphe combo, with a difficulty of 486. Mont Ventoux is 406,
while Alpe d'Huez is "only" 296.

This info makes sense. If I recall correctly it was stage 15 to
Luz-Ardiden (when Armstrong fell). Ulrich attacked or attempted to
distance himself from Armstrong on the Tourmalet. Roche said this was
a harder climb than L'Alpe d'Huez but ironically not a good place to
attack! He heavily critised Ulrich's attack as being naieve because
there was a long non-technical descent to the base of Luz-Ardiden and
no possibility of maintaining the attack on the descent even if he had
gotten away from Armstrong. As a point of interest Roche said the
finish to Luz Ariden also presented a very difficult climb and was the
place to attach as the gradient never eased up - maybe Armstrong was
listening to Roche!

In article , (Michael
Fuhr) wrote:

(Rik O'Shea) writes:

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

The guys who run altimetrias.com have attempted to quantify this
by calculating a climb's "coefficient of difficulty" using a formula
that takes into account climb length and gradient. Their site
catalogs climbs in Spain, but they do have a list of well-known
climbs in other countries:

http://www.altimetrias.com/htm/ComoCoefUK.htm

The toughest climb on this list is Angliru, with a difficulty of
507. The toughest Tour de France climb on the list is the Galibier +
Telegraphe combo, with a difficulty of 486. Mont Ventoux is 406,
while Alpe d'Huez is "only" 296.

And don't forget the Pandera, I watched it last year when heras won, and
they did it again this year.There are some climbs in the giro and vuelta
which look like they are as bad as or worse than any in the tour. Did
anyone see the Zoncolan in this year's giro? It's only about the last 15k
which are the toughest- at one point the gradient was 27%. THe best
climbers in the world and they were all in agony. Simoni just flew up and
left everyone behind. And yet even he had such a terrible time on the
alpe.

There are some great photos of suffering on the Alpe, 1992, and other Alpe
photos on this website:

http://www.first-contact.demon.co.uk/cyclingindex.html

Marlene Blansha wrote:
In article , (Michael
Fuhr) wrote:
(Rik O'Shea) writes:

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were
a number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

The guys who run altimetrias.com have attempted to quantify this by
calculating a climb's "coefficient of difficulty" using a formula that
takes into account climb length and gradient. Their site catalogs
climbs in Spain, but they do have a list of well-known climbs in other
countries:

http://www.altimetrias.com/htm/ComoC...altimetrias.c-
om/htm/ComoCoefUK.htm

The toughest climb on this list is Angliru, with a difficulty of
507. The toughest Tour de France climb on the list is the Galibier +
Telegraphe combo, with a difficulty of 486. Mont Ventoux is 406,
while Alpe d'Huez is "only" 296.
And don't forget the Pandera, I watched it last year when heras won,
and they did it again this year.There are some climbs in the giro and
vuelta which look like they are as bad as or worse than any in the
tour. Did anyone see the Zoncolan in this year's giro? It's only about
the last 15k which are the toughest- at one point the gradient was 27%.
THe best climbers in the world and they were all in agony. Simoni just
flew up and left everyone behind. And yet even he had such a terrible
time on the alpe.
There are some great photos of suffering on the Alpe, 1992, and other
Alpe photos on this website:
http://www.first-contact.demon.co.uk...://www.first--
contact.demon.co.uk/cyclingindex.html



The Gentings Highland climb in Langkawi is a grind too, but at least in
the initial versions of the race, the stage was pretty short and it was
the only climb of the day.



--
--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

"Marlene Blanshay" wrote in message
...
In article , (Michael
Fuhr) wrote:

(Rik O'Shea) writes:

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

The guys who run altimetrias.com have attempted to quantify this
by calculating a climb's "coefficient of difficulty" using a formula
that takes into account climb length and gradient. Their site
catalogs climbs in Spain, but they do have a list of well-known
climbs in other countries:

http://www.altimetrias.com/htm/ComoCoefUK.htm

The toughest climb on this list is Angliru, with a difficulty of
507. The toughest Tour de France climb on the list is the Galibier +
Telegraphe combo, with a difficulty of 486. Mont Ventoux is 406,
while Alpe d'Huez is "only" 296.

And don't forget the Pandera, I watched it last year when heras won, and
they did it again this year.There are some climbs in the giro and vuelta
which look like they are as bad as or worse than any in the tour. Did
anyone see the Zoncolan in this year's giro? It's only about the last 15k
which are the toughest- at one point the gradient was 27%. THe best
climbers in the world and they were all in agony. Simoni just flew up and
left everyone behind. And yet even he had such a terrible time on the
alpe.

There are some great photos of suffering on the Alpe, 1992, and other Alpe
photos on this website:

http://www.first-contact.demon.co.uk/cyclingindex.html

Well, for one day I thought it would be the circle of death or the (circle
of the dead men) Talking about Aubisque and the Col du Tourmalet but also
one year where Lemond finished with Luz-Ardiden. In the early years tour
organizers were criticized for including mountain passes that were thought
to be too difficult and would lead to deaths amongst the competitors.
Otherwise I always thought Galabier and Croix de Fer coupled with Alpe
d'Huez would be good show for hardest one day ride. Mont Ventoux was good
but I can't remember what other climbs it was coupled with except I remember
Armstrong saying that was really one mountain he was not looking forward
too, more so then any other. I think that is where Tommy Simpson died.

B-

Stephen Roche in this year's Tour commentary said that the L'Alpe
d'Huez stage was always one of the hardest stages because there were a
number of Cols to be negotiated before the final uphill climb to
L'Alpe d'Huez. However he did say that as an individual climb that
L'Alpe d'Huez was not the hardest. So what is the hardest climb ?

Remembering the look of my dad when he climbed several cols during our
holidays, he suffered the most on the Mont Ventoux, the Tourmalet and
the Stelvio in Italy.