#71
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-31 10:27, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 9:38:46 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/31/2018 11:20 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-30 15:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 8:00 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 16:52, Frank Krygowski wrote: Fixing public transit is fine by me. But I don't think the problem is the detail design of the bike racks. That is one of the (many) details. And yes, that does need fixing. Else people will keep using their pickup trucks. It's a tiny detail for a microscopic minority or customers: those who want to take a bike on the bus, have bought a bike that doesn't fit the racks to their satisfaction, and are incapable of fastening the bike without whining on newsgroups. Priority number one is getting a hand on unruly passengers and safety. Even if it's just perceived safety. I don't get scared by a bum screaming profanities but most others do. Most engineers address priority number one before getting lost in the weeds on priority number 86. Or whatever. I could have almost bet your would not understand this. You're right, I don't understand why changing the bike racks a little bit will generate hundreds of new bus riders - or whatever the heck you're now claiming. But that's OK. A lot of us don't understand your thinking. There is also the assumption that everyone else has it wrong or has not thought it through. Excluding some bikes or limiting the number of bikes is a choice. https://bikeportland.org/2007/12/18/...for-buses-6213 https://bikeportland.org/2013/07/15/...us-views-90473 Long wheelbase bikes tend to block headlights and turn signals, and TriMet has excluded bikes with panniers and handlebar baskets or bags that obstruct the driver's view down. In El Dorado Transits response they said they were also considering increasing to three slot racks and had the same concern ablout head lights and turn signals. My MTB buddy knew the obvious when he built a dirt bike rack for the back of his small car ... drum roll ... a light bar! Tada ... Joerg also tends to think every issue is new because he just discovered it. In 1991, BTA got racks on TriMet buses, mostly due to individual efforts from our fearless leaders, Jim Ferner and Rex Burkholder, who then created an organization and a board (including me) to pursue bicycling related transportation issues. There were no Townies or giant 29ers at the time, and TriMet adopted the national standard for racks, which works for most people who use them. If Joerg wants to change things in the bustling metropolis of Cameron Park, he should do like we did 27 years ago and work for change. But then we'll hear about evil government, incompetence and intransigence. Unions! Or it will trend to a discussion of microbrewing or awesome trails and trains not going to trails, etc., etc. It always goes sideways. Nope, out transit agency is now looking into that issue. I guess they realized that this is not 27 years ago but 2018 where 27-1/2" MTB are increasing in market share, big time. People in Placerville and Cameron Park who have only one bike usually have an MTB, and that's the main operating area of this transit agency. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#72
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Bus racks
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:36:09 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-31 08:51, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 7:13:51 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip [...] That's the big question. Union protectionism? Got no operating permit of the local governments wanted to much money for it? Who knows. The answer is obvious: it doesn't pay. So why does it in Germany? Hey, maybe its because people would rather drive their cars! That might have a lot to do with it but then again Germany is also a car-centric country. Where there is a market, it does work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BoltBu...regon_2014.jpg Ah, those Texans are conquering your turf as well. Greyhound (now) has its corporate offices in Texas, but it is a Delaware corporation and is owned by a company in Aberdeen, Scotland -- my ancestral homeland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FirstGroup Globalism! Gaaaak! The evil Scottish conspiracy is trying to take over the world! Pretty soon we'll all be wearing wool skirts and throwing telephone poles around. Lord Trump needs to crack down on those dress-wearing interlopers! We should have a 1,000% tariff on haggis. No, no, he can't do that. He owns a golf course in Scotland. (BTW, in front of my office building. I have to dodge those things). We also have private buses up to the mountains for skiing and airport shuttle buses, etc. Those are what could be construed as cherry-picking. What I meant was a full blown system that includes not so lucrative routes all the way to Outer Podunk. A sysme that enables most residents not to even have a car. Not going to happen in a market economy. The fares would be too high for either local users who have to subsidize rural users or for rural users who have to pay actual cost plus ROI. There might be a way to do this by selling losses to investors -- running the system as a tax shelter, but I'll let the tax accountants figure that one out. The bottom line is that barriers to entry are not that high and certainly lower than in Germany, and if mass transit could be done profitably in a large US urban area by private business, it would be. People are always looking for a way to make a buck. It might work elsewhere in a dense European city, but it has been tried and failed here in PDX. The German example I brought was from an area much less densely populated than Portland. AFAIK they even operate ferries in the system. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Germany is a comparatively small country with a large population. Distances are not so great there compared to many areas of the USA. Again, if Germany is so gosh darn great, then why have so many Germans emigrated? Cheers |
#73
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Bus racks
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:43:38 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-31 10:27, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 9:38:46 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/31/2018 11:20 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-30 15:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 8:00 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 16:52, Frank Krygowski wrote: Fixing public transit is fine by me. But I don't think the problem is the detail design of the bike racks. That is one of the (many) details. And yes, that does need fixing. Else people will keep using their pickup trucks. It's a tiny detail for a microscopic minority or customers: those who want to take a bike on the bus, have bought a bike that doesn't fit the racks to their satisfaction, and are incapable of fastening the bike without whining on newsgroups. Priority number one is getting a hand on unruly passengers and safety. Even if it's just perceived safety. I don't get scared by a bum screaming profanities but most others do. Most engineers address priority number one before getting lost in the weeds on priority number 86. Or whatever. I could have almost bet your would not understand this. You're right, I don't understand why changing the bike racks a little bit will generate hundreds of new bus riders - or whatever the heck you're now claiming. But that's OK. A lot of us don't understand your thinking. There is also the assumption that everyone else has it wrong or has not thought it through. Excluding some bikes or limiting the number of bikes is a choice. https://bikeportland.org/2007/12/18/...for-buses-6213 https://bikeportland.org/2013/07/15/...us-views-90473 Long wheelbase bikes tend to block headlights and turn signals, and TriMet has excluded bikes with panniers and handlebar baskets or bags that obstruct the driver's view down. In El Dorado Transits response they said they were also considering increasing to three slot racks and had the same concern ablout head lights and turn signals. My MTB buddy knew the obvious when he built a dirt bike rack for the back of his small car ... drum roll ... a light bar! Tada ... Joerg also tends to think every issue is new because he just discovered it. In 1991, BTA got racks on TriMet buses, mostly due to individual efforts from our fearless leaders, Jim Ferner and Rex Burkholder, who then created an organization and a board (including me) to pursue bicycling related transportation issues. There were no Townies or giant 29ers at the time, and TriMet adopted the national standard for racks, which works for most people who use them. If Joerg wants to change things in the bustling metropolis of Cameron Park, he should do like we did 27 years ago and work for change. But then we'll hear about evil government, incompetence and intransigence. Unions! Or it will trend to a discussion of microbrewing or awesome trails and trains not going to trails, etc., etc. It always goes sideways. Nope, out transit agency is now looking into that issue. I guess they realized that this is not 27 years ago but 2018 where 27-1/2" MTB are increasing in market share, big time. People in Placerville and Cameron Park who have only one bike usually have an MTB, and that's the main operating area of this transit agency. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Yet the videos you post only show 26" wheeled MTBs. Where are those 27.5 and 29 MTBs? Cheers |
#74
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-31 11:06, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:36:09 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 08:51, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 7:13:51 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip [...] [...] (BTW, in front of my office building. I have to dodge those things). We also have private buses up to the mountains for skiing and airport shuttle buses, etc. Those are what could be construed as cherry-picking. What I meant was a full blown system that includes not so lucrative routes all the way to Outer Podunk. A sysme that enables most residents not to even have a car. Not going to happen in a market economy. The fares would be too high for either local users who have to subsidize rural users or for rural users who have to pay actual cost plus ROI. There might be a way to do this by selling losses to investors -- running the system as a tax shelter, but I'll let the tax accountants figure that one out. The bottom line is that barriers to entry are not that high and certainly lower than in Germany, and if mass transit could be done profitably in a large US urban area by private business, it would be. People are always looking for a way to make a buck. It might work elsewhere in a dense European city, but it has been tried and failed here in PDX. The German example I brought was from an area much less densely populated than Portland. AFAIK they even operate ferries in the system. Germany is a comparatively small country with a large population. Distances are not so great there compared to many areas of the USA. As I wrote, I picked an example (on purpose) from an area that is less densely populated than where I live now. Again, if Germany is so gosh darn great, then why have so many Germans emigrated? Because it wasn't always great and still isn't in many aspects. One cannot generalize. For example, public transportation is clearly better there but bike paths and even more so MTB trails are definitely not. Before moving to the US I would have never dreamed that bicycle infrastructure could become better here than in Germany but it has. Agencies in the various contries could learn from each other but there is often a lack of willingness. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#75
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Bus racks
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:03:16 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-31 11:06, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:36:09 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 08:51, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 7:13:51 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip [...] [...] (BTW, in front of my office building. I have to dodge those things). We also have private buses up to the mountains for skiing and airport shuttle buses, etc. Those are what could be construed as cherry-picking. What I meant was a full blown system that includes not so lucrative routes all the way to Outer Podunk. A sysme that enables most residents not to even have a car. Not going to happen in a market economy. The fares would be too high for either local users who have to subsidize rural users or for rural users who have to pay actual cost plus ROI. There might be a way to do this by selling losses to investors -- running the system as a tax shelter, but I'll let the tax accountants figure that one out. The bottom line is that barriers to entry are not that high and certainly lower than in Germany, and if mass transit could be done profitably in a large US urban area by private business, it would be. People are always looking for a way to make a buck. It might work elsewhere in a dense European city, but it has been tried and failed here in PDX. The German example I brought was from an area much less densely populated than Portland. AFAIK they even operate ferries in the system. Germany is a comparatively small country with a large population. Distances are not so great there compared to many areas of the USA. As I wrote, I picked an example (on purpose) from an area that is less densely populated than where I live now. Again, if Germany is so gosh darn great, then why have so many Germans emigrated? Because it wasn't always great and still isn't in many aspects. One cannot generalize. For example, public transportation is clearly better there but bike paths and even more so MTB trails are definitely not. Before moving to the US I would have never dreamed that bicycle infrastructure could become better here than in Germany but it has. Agencies in the various contries could learn from each other but there is often a lack of willingness. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I wonder what would happen if to create a new bicycling infrastructure or bus/rail link that would benefit mainly bicyclists, if bicyclists were told they alone would have to pay for it? Cheers |
#76
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-31 11:08, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:43:38 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 10:27, jbeattie wrote: [...] Joerg also tends to think every issue is new because he just discovered it. In 1991, BTA got racks on TriMet buses, mostly due to individual efforts from our fearless leaders, Jim Ferner and Rex Burkholder, who then created an organization and a board (including me) to pursue bicycling related transportation issues. There were no Townies or giant 29ers at the time, and TriMet adopted the national standard for racks, which works for most people who use them. If Joerg wants to change things in the bustling metropolis of Cameron Park, he should do like we did 27 years ago and work for change. But then we'll hear about evil government, incompetence and intransigence. Unions! Or it will trend to a discussion of microbrewing or awesome trails and trains not going to trails, etc., etc. It always goes sideways. Nope, out transit agency is now looking into that issue. I guess they realized that this is not 27 years ago but 2018 where 27-1/2" MTB are increasing in market share, big time. People in Placerville and Cameron Park who have only one bike usually have an MTB, and that's the main operating area of this transit agency. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Yet the videos you post only show 26" wheeled MTBs. Where are those 27.5 and 29 MTBs? Everywhere. Yesterday on the singletrack Folsom-Lotus the only 26" MTBs were those of my two friends. Bikes that are more than 10 years old. One has a double-crown fork and also does not fit into the bus racks. All other riders had 27-1/2" and 29" MTBs despite the fact that part of that route is downhiller-turf. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#77
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-31 12:08, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:03:16 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 11:06, Sir Ridesalot wrote: [...] Again, if Germany is so gosh darn great, then why have so many Germans emigrated? Because it wasn't always great and still isn't in many aspects. One cannot generalize. For example, public transportation is clearly better there but bike paths and even more so MTB trails are definitely not. Before moving to the US I would have never dreamed that bicycle infrastructure could become better here than in Germany but it has. Agencies in the various contries could learn from each other but there is often a lack of willingness. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I wonder what would happen if to create a new bicycling infrastructure or bus/rail link that would benefit mainly bicyclists, if bicyclists were told they alone would have to pay for it? Me and my friends would tell them not to build any infrastructure, which means they shall also not obstruct us by roads, of course (else there is an obligation to accommodate). For a real cyclist nature provides sufficient infrastructure. This is right here in town and I use it often: http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG Oh, and add a beer garden 30 miles later, with salty pretzels and all :-) Case in point: The El Dorado Trail, one of my frequent routes. There isn't much infrastructure or maintenance other than by volunteers yet this is the only truly bikeable connection to Placerville. One needs to have an MTB and at least basic trail riding skills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_T2c4AXaCY -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#78
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Bus racks
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:08:32 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-31 11:08, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:43:38 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 10:27, jbeattie wrote: [...] Joerg also tends to think every issue is new because he just discovered it. In 1991, BTA got racks on TriMet buses, mostly due to individual efforts from our fearless leaders, Jim Ferner and Rex Burkholder, who then created an organization and a board (including me) to pursue bicycling related transportation issues. There were no Townies or giant 29ers at the time, and TriMet adopted the national standard for racks, which works for most people who use them. If Joerg wants to change things in the bustling metropolis of Cameron Park, he should do like we did 27 years ago and work for change. But then we'll hear about evil government, incompetence and intransigence. Unions! Or it will trend to a discussion of microbrewing or awesome trails and trains not going to trails, etc., etc. It always goes sideways. Nope, out transit agency is now looking into that issue. I guess they realized that this is not 27 years ago but 2018 where 27-1/2" MTB are increasing in market share, big time. People in Placerville and Cameron Park who have only one bike usually have an MTB, and that's the main operating area of this transit agency. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Yet the videos you post only show 26" wheeled MTBs. Where are those 27.5 and 29 MTBs? Everywhere. Yesterday on the singletrack Folsom-Lotus the only 26" MTBs were those of my two friends. Bikes that are more than 10 years old. One has a double-crown fork and also does not fit into the bus racks. All other riders had 27-1/2" and 29" MTBs despite the fact that part of that route is downhiller-turf. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ If 27.5 and 29ers were so common we'd expect you to post a video of them. Cheers |
#79
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Bus racks
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 4:17:42 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-31 12:08, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:03:16 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 11:06, Sir Ridesalot wrote: [...] Again, if Germany is so gosh darn great, then why have so many Germans emigrated? Because it wasn't always great and still isn't in many aspects. One cannot generalize. For example, public transportation is clearly better there but bike paths and even more so MTB trails are definitely not. Before moving to the US I would have never dreamed that bicycle infrastructure could become better here than in Germany but it has. Agencies in the various contries could learn from each other but there is often a lack of willingness. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I wonder what would happen if to create a new bicycling infrastructure or bus/rail link that would benefit mainly bicyclists, if bicyclists were told they alone would have to pay for it? Me and my friends would tell them not to build any infrastructure, which means they shall also not obstruct us by roads, of course (else there is an obligation to accommodate). For a real cyclist nature provides sufficient infrastructure. This is right here in town and I use it often: http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG Oh, and add a beer garden 30 miles later, with salty pretzels and all :-) Case in point: The El Dorado Trail, one of my frequent routes. There isn't much infrastructure or maintenance other than by volunteers yet this is the only truly bikeable connection to Placerville. One needs to have an MTB and at least basic trail riding skills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_T2c4AXaCY -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Then why in blazes do you want bigger bike racks on buses? Cheers |
#80
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-31 13:57, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 4:17:42 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 12:08, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:03:16 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-31 11:06, Sir Ridesalot wrote: [...] Again, if Germany is so gosh darn great, then why have so many Germans emigrated? Because it wasn't always great and still isn't in many aspects. One cannot generalize. For example, public transportation is clearly better there but bike paths and even more so MTB trails are definitely not. Before moving to the US I would have never dreamed that bicycle infrastructure could become better here than in Germany but it has. Agencies in the various contries could learn from each other but there is often a lack of willingness. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I wonder what would happen if to create a new bicycling infrastructure or bus/rail link that would benefit mainly bicyclists, if bicyclists were told they alone would have to pay for it? Me and my friends would tell them not to build any infrastructure, which means they shall also not obstruct us by roads, of course (else there is an obligation to accommodate). For a real cyclist nature provides sufficient infrastructure. This is right here in town and I use it often: http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG Oh, and add a beer garden 30 miles later, with salty pretzels and all :-) Case in point: The El Dorado Trail, one of my frequent routes. There isn't much infrastructure or maintenance other than by volunteers yet this is the only truly bikeable connection to Placerville. One needs to have an MTB and at least basic trail riding skills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_T2c4AXaCY -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Then why in blazes do you want bigger bike racks on buses? As I wrote several times now, because there are people who'd like to come along on a ride but who do not have the endurance or trail skills to finish such a ride in time. Often I cannot leave before 11:30am but need to be back by 4:30pm. Which I can do but they can't. It is a good thing if we as more seasoned cyclists convince others to ride along. However, if their first experience is a total bonk and utter exhaustion or, worse, a nasty crash they will throw in the towel. I recently had that happen. Got carried away for a minute, the rider behind me tried to keep up and took a bad spill. Turned around to look for him and helped fix his bike. He said he is done trail-riding. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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