Bikes on Trains - was Cycle Tracks ad nauseum

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:33:05 +0000, JohnB wrote:

Tim Hall wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:24:40 +0100, NM wrote:

You aren't going to get your normal run of the mill average bike on a
train either unless you are very lucky,

Is this the voice of experience? I've put my "normal run of the mill
bike" on loads of trains in the past year, no booking just turn up and
go. I've also put two tandems on trains with no booking.

You are indeed very very lucky.

Not lucky enough to win the lottery and by a windcheetah though.

You certainly havevent travelled in my neck of the woods then.

I get the impression that bike on train is a lot easier down here (W
Sussex) than other parts. Partly due to slam door trains with guards
vans. This is set to change shortly though.

I'm in Hampshire and we still have the old trains. These are extremely
poor in terms of comfort & cleanliness but are great for taking bikes.
You'll often see 10 or so bikes in the guard's van. Very popular with
mobs of bmx boys as well as 'real' cyclists.

Soon to be replaced with much better (for passengers)/worse (for
cyclists) trains; 2 bikes per train.

I've got mixed feelings about bikes on trains. Right now and
personally, I think it's great to be able to hop on with my bike. But
I recognise that if cycling were less of a minority activity it simply
wouldn't work to allow everyone to bring a bike on board. It would add
delay at stations and real fares would need to be charged if a
significant amount of 'train space' were taken up by bikes rather than
paying people.

As I think cycling should *not* continue to be a minority transport
mode, I can't really support the long term future of freedom to take a
bike.

So, what do I support?

For commuting and short trips:

Every station should provide A1 standard parking (and wet weather
gear/light storage) and at big stations maybe extras such as changing
rooms. This should be secure enough & in sufficient numbers to allow
regulars to leave a bike at each end. Accessibility by bike to & from
the stations should be made safe and easy.

Also, a sensible attitude to folding bikes. In theory most TOCs have a
good policy and will allow folders on although some may demand it is
bagged. These policies need to be properly understood by staff and
folders welcomed rather than treated with suspicion (ie 'clever
*******, eh. Thinks you can get round the bike ban just cause it
folds, do you?'). And folders should include 26' folders such as Dahon
Matrix.

For getting to Audaxes etc:

In off peak periods, can we take bikes into the general passenger
areas of trains? I haven't taken a bike on a train for a long time but
when I last did this, it was simply a matter of standing with the bike
by the door. Maybe this has been vetoed by HMRI or whoever.

Alternatively, we'll just have to get clever and use performance
folders such as Airnimal etc.

For going on holiday, taking a tandem etc:

Use parcelforce. Costs about 15UKP ew. I've investigated doing this to
hotels in the past and foresaw no problems. Should receipt and holding
of bikes be an innovative service that stations could offer? I think
this happens in France. An alternative is to find the nearest friendly
LBS and see if they'll take delivery.

Overall, I think we'll lose if we continue to simply demand the right
to take a bike. There's too many good reasons why it's not sustainable
as well as a good many poor but unchallengable reasons (H&S). We need
to be imaginative and innovative and find solutions that can be made
to work.

"[Not Responding]" wrote in message
news
Overall, I think we'll lose if we continue to simply demand the right
to take a bike. There's too many good reasons why it's not sustainable
as well as a good many poor but unchallengable reasons (H&S). We need
to be imaginative and innovative and find solutions that can be made
to work.

What's the problem with just bringing back the guard's van? I personally
think all train operators should be required to have one on each train!

Rich

Richard Goodman wrote:

What's the problem with just bringing back the guard's van? I personally
think all train operators should be required to have one on each train!


In our area, platform length. Choice of 4 carriages or three carriages plus
guards van. On a revenue and demand basis no contest I'm afraid.

Tony

Tony Raven wrote:

Richard Goodman wrote:

What's the problem with just bringing back the guard's van? I personally
think all train operators should be required to have one on each train!


In our area, platform length. Choice of 4 carriages or three carriages plus
guards van. On a revenue and demand basis no contest I'm afraid.

A 'van' could take up say 1/4 of a carriage, as on the slam door trains.
Neither is there any reason why it could not be designed for flexible use with
seats and gorrilla handholds in peak period taking priority.

I think the train companies have gone beyond what is reasonable in trying to
fit so many bum rests into trains, forgetting that passengers also take
luggage.
Ever sat next to someone on who insists on using a laptop, or reading a paper
in one of those so-called airline designed seats?
And it's not only bikes, but push chairs, cases, and other belongings that need
to be catered for.

Witness Wirgin, having to say they would run a road delivery service for
luggage.
What a joke.

And Scotrail who run a van between Wick and Inverness for bikes because their
trains just do not have the space for them - and nothing to do with numbers of
passengers, but because of train design.

Bring back the van.

John B

"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Richard Goodman wrote:

What's the problem with just bringing back the guard's van? I
personally
think all train operators should be required to have one on each train!


In our area, platform length. Choice of 4 carriages or three carriages
plus
guards van. On a revenue and demand basis no contest I'm afraid.


Well, alright then, with exceptions for 'small' local lines with restriced
platform length. At least intercity trains should have to have them!

Rich

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:28:14 -0000, in
, "Richard Goodman"
wrote:

Well, alright then, with exceptions for 'small' local lines with restriced
platform length. At least intercity trains should have to have [guard's vans]

Is it just me or does everybody else always end up standing at the
wrong end of the platform?
--
Sig got lost during a reinstall

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:32:11 +0000 (UTC), Richard Bates
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:28:14 -0000, in
, "Richard Goodman"
wrote:

Well, alright then, with exceptions for 'small' local lines with restriced
platform length. At least intercity trains should have to have [guard's vans]

Is it just me or does everybody else always end up standing at the
wrong end of the platform?

It's not just you. Murphy's law I guess.
Anyone tried to hang their bike in a Voyager train? They say they take
4 bikes, but mine will only fit into one (and at a push 2). Often it's
been the case that luggage or people (on the busier trains) prevent me
from hanging my bike in the first place. Regardless of the fact that
I've reserved my bike and have a special ticket.

For the first time in a while I boarded a train with a gaurd's van
yesterday. Loading/unloading my bike has never been so easy. If only
they'd implement something similar into the new trains instead of the
insulting hangers. Grrrr ! :-|

Chris

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:27:43 +0000, [Not Responding] wrote:

This is a subject which I'm interested in.

Slam doors trains with guards vans are a relic off the Ark.
Weren't a lot of people hurt in a crash at a mainline London
station because they were all standing up?
'Toast rack' carriages simply aren't up to modern crash standards.
And allowing passengers to open doors at any time seems to me
to be a recipe for disaster.
And how about making people in wheelchairs travel in a guards van.

Having said that of course, I agree with the posters who say that modern
trains have stupidly forgotten about the provision for luggage,
pushchairs, bikes etc. etc.
There should be a luggage area in every train.


Sorry to be yawn-inducing, but look at the Swiss system.
Trains and cable cars are used to keep tiny communities alive - they
stop to take on milk churns.
You can book luggage on from a Swissair flight to be delivered off the
plane, on the train, to your hotel.
Every station has a goods office.
Stations have cycle hire, so you can plan a day off out in the
countryside.
As for taking your own bike, have a look at:
http://www.sbb.ch/pv/veloselb_e.htm#4
"Groups of 10 or more people are not allowed to take accompanied bikes on
trains. Group outings such as parties of schoolchildren are therefore
advised to use our Rent a Bike service instead."

We can all start weeping now. Nine people can just turn up and travel.

And (weep, cry):"The blue train information board shows you whereabouts on
the train the bicycle compartment will be located so that you can go to
the right part of the platform before the train arrives."




Then again, praise is due to the excellent trains staff on the
London to Folkestone service we took one Sunday two weeks ago.
As the train split at Ashford, we all had to scurry forward with the
bikes. The train guard (slam door service) tipped the seats up in an empty
carriage to help us get the bikes on board.
Top marks to him for helpfulness - and it helped him get the service
started off quicker.

Simon Brooke wrote:
..

I've seen in Seattle (and I recall other people have seen in other
foreign cities) fold-down racks on the fronts of busses to carry six
or eight bikes, and there's no reason why similar racks should not
fitted on the front of commuter trains.


That would be fun, climbing down onto the tracks to load your bike onto the
rack on the front.

Tony

John Hearns wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:27:43 +0000, [Not Responding] wrote:

This is a subject which I'm interested in.

Slam doors trains with guards vans are a relic off the Ark.
Weren't a lot of people hurt in a crash at a mainline London
station because they were all standing up?

Nearly every train before 10am and after 4pm on my line is standing room
only.
And they are not slam door.

The problems of Britain's railways run far deeper than door design - or even
bike carriage.

John B