Government Bicycle Program News

wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:00:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
No, I wasn't defining "recreational cyclists" as those who wear fancy
cycling gear, although the usually do, I was rather trying to
differentiate between people who ride a bicycle for "fun" and those
who use it as their only means of local transportation.

John B.

I'd agree with that statement. Recreational cyclists ride their bikes
for fun and exercise. They do it because they want to. And most, almost
all, wear bicycle specific clothing to do it and ride newer style bikes.


So when I’m commuting to the office on my pretty new CF Tarmac with my
backpack on top of my bicycle specific kit does that make me a recreational
cyclist?

Most riders I see on the road around here doing any more than a few
kilometre commute wear cycling kits. Maybe it’s different where there are
few cyclists.

On Saturday, 27 June 2020 07:54:27 UTC-4, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:00:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
No, I wasn't defining "recreational cyclists" as those who wear fancy
cycling gear, although the usually do, I was rather trying to
differentiate between people who ride a bicycle for "fun" and those
who use it as their only means of local transportation.

John B.

I'd agree with that statement. Recreational cyclists ride their bikes
for fun and exercise. They do it because they want to. And most, almost
all, wear bicycle specific clothing to do it and ride newer style bikes..


So when I’m commuting to the office on my pretty new CF Tarmac with my
backpack on top of my bicycle specific kit does that make me a recreational
cyclist?

Most riders I see on the road around here doing any more than a few
kilometre commute wear cycling kits. Maybe it’s different where there are
few cyclists.

When I ride my bicycle and especially when I was using a bicycle* to commute to work I was both a utility (transportaional) bicyclist and a recreational/fitness bicyclist. My commute was used as a training ride and I did lots of interval training on those rides. Often on the way home I'd ride a longer route to enjoy scenery and to de-stress. That would be a recreational bicyclist. Horrors of horrors, sometimes I'd even pick up something at the store and that would make me a utility bicyclist.

It's possible to be many types of bicyclist on the same ride.

Cheers

* this was a full on racing bicycle with no provision for the mounting of fenders or racks. It was a bicycle that would have been at home in any of the Grand Tours.

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:28:00 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I've seen data rating motorcycling at over 30 times more
dangerous than bicycling per hour exposure.

Here we go again with Krygowski Lie No 237. I can't be bothered to look up how much more dangerous than bicycles motorbikes are*; I'll stipulate that motorbikes are more dangerous than pedal bikes. But the proper way to compare motorbikes to pedal bikes is not per hour or per trip but per distance covered. It should be quite clear to everyone with more brains than a newt that a motorbike covers many more miles in an hour than a bicycle can, and is thus exposed to danger many more times, and because of its speed it is further exposed to more serious impacts than a bicycle. I doubt that Krygowski will admit to being stupid, so he's wilfully lying; there are no alternatives. Krygowski should apologise for trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Again. But don't hold your breath. Krygowsky doesn't have any grace, not even the small social grace of saying "Sorry," when he is caught out lying.

Andre Jute
You have to be thicker than two short planks together to lie as obviously as Frank Krygowski does.

*I've only been here about ten years, and I'm already bored to distraction by the constant vomiting-up of the same-old same-old mindlessly dumb anti-helmet arguments by same-dumb same-dumb Anti-Helmet-Zealots.

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 18:16:16 -0700 (PDT),
jbeattie wrote:


By the way, I was coming back from riding through the hills
last night and stopped at the Thai cart to pick up dinner.
Its a little over a mile from my house. The orders come in a
fairly robust paper bag and do my usual routine of just holding
the bag around my left lever, but this time it starts to rip! I
should have bought my Chihuahua bag! But wait, I shoved it
under my garish lycra jersey. Never underestimate jerseys.
https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp...challenge1.jpg

That's *ridiculous*. Is he supplying the entire peloton?


I could probably put six Chihuahuas under my jersey, so long as
the get along and are housebroken.

Now there's a visual!

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:54:27 PM UTC+1, Duane wrote:

Most riders I see on the road around here doing any more than a few
kilometre commute wear cycling kits. Maybe it’s different where there are
few cyclists.

Sure, if I commuted like you and Jay do, I'd wear proper cycling gear too, simply because it would be more convenient at that level of stress. But the speed and the distance of a normal ride for me doesn't cause any perspiration because I ride with others at conversational speeds, as a social event. Wearing street clothes, and developing (or buying) a bike to suit isn't some kind of perverse principle, as Krygowski believes any behaviour he doesn't approve of to be and which that Canadian idiot Ridealot calls a "troll", but just another convenience.

Mind you, if I didn't already wear a helmet because I'm pretty fair skinned and burn easily, the people I ride with, some of whom wouldn't dream of cycling without proper cycling wear just as they won't play tennis in khakis or go fly fishing with live bait, would probably apply peer pressure for me to wear a helmet.

I just don't see how whether someone else wears lycra or street clothes, or a helmet or for that matter a baseball cap with FU embroidered on it, is a matter of principle to anyone, or in the least their business.

Andre Jute
Snowflakes rioting in the streets

On 6/26/2020 11:56 PM, wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 8:34:06 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/26/2020 8:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 5:39:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/26/2020 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 12:25:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/25/2020 9:58 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:47:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/25/2020 7:02 PM, sms wrote:


Remember the AHZ argument that if helmets are required then health care
costs will increase because, instead of buying a $20 helmet, former
cyclists will stay home watching TV and eating fatty snacks causing
nationalized health care costs to soar? Perhaps they'll make the same
argument here, 'without government funded bicycle repair we're going to
not ride and it'll cost the government even more money.'

Mayor Scharf (AKA "sms") should stick to losing one argument at a time,
instead of resurrecting past losses.

Data clearly shows mandating helmets reduces cycling, typically by about
30%. A reasonable person might doubt the exact percentage, but only a
fool would say there would be no effect.

Interesting. Over here there is no "helmet Law" for bicycles yet I
can't remember when I've seen a recreational cyclist without a helmet.
Note that I differentiate between, would one say "normal" cyclists,
and recreational cyclists as we still do have a certain number of
people that use a bicycle as their only means of local transportation.

If you define "recreational cyclist" as a person with a stylish bike as
promoted in some bicycling magazine, with clipless pedals (um... that
you clip into), wearing lycra shorts, riding gloves, a brightly colored
cycling jersey (bonus points if it advertises the brand of bike) then
yes, that person will almost certainly wear a helmet. Come on! Would you
expect the Shriners to parade without their red hats?
https://medinah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-parades.jpg

No, I wasn't defining "recreational cyclists" as those who wear fancy
cycling gear, although the usually do, I was rather trying to
differentiate between people who ride a bicycle for "fun" and those
who use it as their only means of local transportation.

Amazingly we still have some people here that don't own an auto or
motorcycle and use a bicycle as a transportation device. You can see
them every morning going back and forth to either local shops or a
large open market for the day's food. Usually with a basket on the
front and often a large plastic crate strapped on the rear carrier.

And never a helmet :-)

But if you talk about other people riding bicycles, the majority in my
area do not wear helmets. And if you told them they must wear a helmet
or be subject to a penalty, ridership would certainly decrease by some
amount. in Australia and New Zealand, where those laws are still being
enforced, ridership is way, way down, especially if you index it to
population growth.

It must be something local as there is a helmet law here for
motorcycles and it is rigidly enforced and strangely enough small
~100cc motorcycles are literally "all over the place".


Even a little kid will ride less. Kids' typical riding is over to
Johnny's house for a little while, then to Georgie's house, then to the
playground, then home for a snack, etc. Tell them they MUST strap on a
helmet, then remove it, then strap it on each time and the kid is going
to say "screw it" and stop using the bike as much.



I'm no expert on Thai culture but in my State the
legislature danced with a motorcycle helmet law once. Some
50,000 riders surrounded the Capitol[1] for days and the
bill was dropped. That was the end of any mandatory helmet
discussion.

Bicyclists don't have such solidarity. Threaten them with
legislative punishment and they would attack each other over
whose tires are too skinny or fat, which gearing is
heretical and whether or not crank tapers need lubrication.


[1] No violence, firebombings, statues toppled, businesses
looted. Also no litter. As exemplary a 'peaceable assembly'
and 'petition' as ever there was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sd-XHD_GuM

I always preferred the motorcycle accidents when the rider was wearing a helmet. I don't know about survival rates, but there was certainly less cleanup. Asphalt can abrade right through a skull. It's gross.

-- Jay Beattie.


One does see motorcycle helmets here from time to time
(notably on traffic police).

In my state, which is very close to your state, I see about 50/50 helmet usage. People riding Harleys because they thinks its cool don't wear helmets. People riding about any other type of motorcycle do wear helmets.



The compelling phrase at the time and forevermo "Let
those who ride decide." Could not imagine any better public
policy for this or any other similar issue.


I'd argue with that statement. Seatbelt usage is mandatory in all states I believe. Cops do stop and ticket people for not wearing seatbelts I believe. When I was a kid there were no seatbelt laws and I never wore a seatbelt. Sometime in the 80s I think seatbelt laws were passed. And laws requiring all cars to have airbags came later too. I think its prudent to wear a seatbelt now and always wear one when in a car. I don't think my constitutional rights are being violated by making me wear a seatbelt. And I'm not going to get a gun and hold a rally at the state capital demanding the government stop persecuting and regulating me.



Which, like so many things, makes no difference (beyond
ideology).

Wisconsin is twice as large as Iowa and has about (83 vs 43)
twice as many motorcycle fatalities despite a very different
helmet use demographic:

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality...state-by-state

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:56:20 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 5:19 PM, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 13:56:47 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 9:25:52 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2020 9:58 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:47:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/25/2020 7:02 PM, sms wrote:


Remember the AHZ argument that if helmets are required then health care
costs will increase because, instead of buying a $20 helmet, former
cyclists will stay home watching TV and eating fatty snacks causing
nationalized health care costs to soar? Perhaps they'll make the same
argument here, 'without government funded bicycle repair we're going to
not ride and it'll cost the government even more money.'

Mayor Scharf (AKA "sms") should stick to losing one argument at a time,
instead of resurrecting past losses.

Data clearly shows mandating helmets reduces cycling, typically by about
30%. A reasonable person might doubt the exact percentage, but only a
fool would say there would be no effect.

Interesting. Over here there is no "helmet Law" for bicycles yet I
can't remember when I've seen a recreational cyclist without a helmet.
Note that I differentiate between, would one say "normal" cyclists,
and recreational cyclists as we still do have a certain number of
people that use a bicycle as their only means of local transportation.

If you define "recreational cyclist" as a person with a stylish bike as
promoted in some bicycling magazine, with clipless pedals (um... that
you clip into), wearing lycra shorts, riding gloves, a brightly colored
cycling jersey (bonus points if it advertises the brand of bike) then
yes, that person will almost certainly wear a helmet. Come on! Would you
expect the Shriners to parade without their red hats?
https://medinah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-parades.jpg

We just wear all that stuff to ****-off the bearded curmudgeons with
their Chihuahua bags riding position one, ringing their bells and
calling out cracks in the road. Talk about a Shriner's Parade. I just
waive as I'm passing by, unless they're throwing out candy.

I've told this story, but three times I got stuck riding in the Corbett
Fourth of July Parade coming back from Larch Mountain.
https://pamplinmedia.com/go/42-news/...f-july-parade-
I'm too weak to do that ride this year. If you try to get around he
fire engine, you get pelted with candy.


But if you talk about other people riding bicycles, the majority in my
area do not wear helmets. And if you told them they must wear a helmet
or be subject to a penalty, ridership would certainly decrease by some
amount. in Australia and New Zealand, where those laws are still being
enforced, ridership is way, way down, especially if you index it to
population growth.

The majority in my area do, and its not required by law.
https://bikeportland.org/2016/05/04/...o-essay-182506


Even a little kid will ride less. Kids' typical riding is over to
Johnny's house for a little while, then to Georgie's house, then to the
playground, then home for a snack, etc. Tell them they MUST strap on a
helmet, then remove it, then strap it on each time and the kid is going
to say "screw it" and stop using the bike as much.

Maybe yes and maybe no. My son objected to wearing a helmet a couple of
times and groused about riding anywhere -- because it always involved a
climb. Girls may be different about helmets.

-- Jay Beattie.

Dos Frank mean t o say that if a person rides a stylish bike as promoted
in some bicycling magazine but uses toe-clips and straps or doesn't wear
a helmet that they're no longer a "recreational bicyclist"?

Cheers


No I think it’s his way of not ever insulting people who are different than
him as we know it’s his gang that are insulted for handlebar bags or some
such nonsense as that. Although you may have a point. Hard to keep
track. Or give a damn...

If you don't give a damn, Duane, why are you bothering with your usual
snipe and retreat?


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank ever asked yourself why you provoke this kind of posts again and again?
From another thread:

'I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.'

Geezz....

Lou

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:44:19 PM UTC+1, sms wrote:

In any case, there are few, if any MHLs for adult cyclists in the U.S.
and I think that only one person on RBT has ever advocated for MHLs.

Not quite, Scharfie. To pay Krygowski out for attempting to bully me when I arrived on RBT I put up the statistical and metaphysical evidence for both sides of the argument. See
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.bicycles.tech/THE$20CASE$20FOR$20A$20MANDATORY$20CYCLE$20HELMET$ 20LAW$20(IN$20THE$20UNITED$20STATES$20OF$20AMERICA )/rec.bicycles.tech/TIJZQMILtkA/yYtnMboR2GAJ

But I didn't take sides. So, even when I'm flicking spitballs against Franki-boy's sticking-out ears, you'll find my statistics textbook-transparent, my information from the most authoritative sources, and my conclusions impeccably conservative.

Frank is giving Donald Trump a run for his money when it comes to
spreading misinformation.

When it comes to spreading misinformation, The Donald is an apprentice on his own show in danger of being fired when compared to the outright lies Frank Krygowski tells all the time. We had another gross example earlier in this thread.

But there's a big difference between them. Mr Trump isn't a coward; he doesn't shrink from full-frontal confrontation. Frank Krygowski has a yellow streak right through him, like a particularly sickly Brighton Rock. He tries to pretend that he doesn't read me because he's so superior, but it's pretty obvious the reason he's hiding from me is that he knows he doesn't have the brains or the skill to win any argument against me, that I'll roll over him like Heinz Guderian having a good day in the Ardennes, as I did every time before. There's a phrase in the Brazilian Portuguese street vernacular for cowards like Krygowski: bolle de mendego; it means "balls of butter".

Andre Jute
Of course, as good liberals, we feel sorry for poor Krygowski. Don't we?

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 1:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 9:25:52 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

If you define "recreational cyclist" as a person with a stylish bike as
promoted in some bicycling magazine, with clipless pedals (um... that
you clip into), wearing lycra shorts, riding gloves, a brightly colored
cycling jersey (bonus points if it advertises the brand of bike) then
yes, that person will almost certainly wear a helmet. Come on! Would you
expect the Shriners to parade without their red hats?
https://medinah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-parades.jpg

We just wear all that stuff to ****-off the bearded curmudgeons with their Chihuahua bags riding position one, ringing their bells and calling out cracks in the road. Talk about a Shriner's Parade.

How funny that a sport cyclist in garish skin tight lycra would make fun
of a person riding competently in normal clothing!

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing (whatever normal might mean). I make fun of the officious cycling busybodies. https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way! https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

And I'm fully qualified to criticize those other cyclists, being that I'm a fifth degree Black Belt in Quantum Cycling Dynamics with over seventeen instructor certifications from the League of Extraordinary Bicyclists. I have the gold patch with clusters!

And I am still the Road Master for my bicycling club, which is filled with incompetents who rely on me for basically everything. At night, they all have non-functioning lights and rely on my blazing 3W dyno light to lead the way. Just the other day, one of our members showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him. Pfff. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/27/2020 9:56 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 1:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 9:25:52 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

If you define "recreational cyclist" as a person with a stylish bike as
promoted in some bicycling magazine, with clipless pedals (um... that
you clip into), wearing lycra shorts, riding gloves, a brightly colored
cycling jersey (bonus points if it advertises the brand of bike) then
yes, that person will almost certainly wear a helmet. Come on! Would you
expect the Shriners to parade without their red hats?
https://medinah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-parades.jpg

We just wear all that stuff to ****-off the bearded curmudgeons with their Chihuahua bags riding position one, ringing their bells and calling out cracks in the road. Talk about a Shriner's Parade.

How funny that a sport cyclist in garish skin tight lycra would make fun
of a person riding competently in normal clothing!

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing (whatever normal might mean). I make fun of the officious cycling busybodies. https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way! https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

And I'm fully qualified to criticize those other cyclists, being that I'm a fifth degree Black Belt in Quantum Cycling Dynamics with over seventeen instructor certifications from the League of Extraordinary Bicyclists. I have the gold patch with clusters!

And I am still the Road Master for my bicycling club, which is filled with incompetents who rely on me for basically everything. At night, they all have non-functioning lights and rely on my blazing 3W dyno light to lead the way. Just the other day, one of our members showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him. Pfff. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

-- Jay Beattie.

Does being Road Master give you the ability to telepathically control
all the bicycles you encounter? If not, what's the point?

Mark "Bad DC comics movie" J.